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Interesting Theory on RMTFollow

#1 Nov 11 2013 at 6:53 AM Rating: Good
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This is a Reddit post, I'm not going to cut/paste as I don't think it's right, plus it's a bit of a wall-o-text. It does make for interesting reading though, and may surprise your preconceptions!

http://www.reddit.com/r/ffxiv/comments/1qcumy/misconceptions_about_gilsellersrmt/

I'll never be able to look at groups selling Titan runs again without wondering.....
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#2 Nov 11 2013 at 7:17 AM Rating: Good
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Very interesting... seems to make a lot of sense. Sounds more like an actual observation than a "theory"... seems like this guy really has seen it first-hand.
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#3 Nov 11 2013 at 7:55 AM Rating: Good
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I understand the concept, but what I don't understand, and what no one ever seems to be able to answer is, how? How does anyone, let alone an rmt, farm enough of any item to make 10 mil gil in a relatively short amount of time? If they are not hacking or exploiting, then they are doing nothing more than any legit player can do. So how do they make millions of gil on a daily basis? Why aren't regular players doing it? We all know how hard it is to generate gil. For weeks players complained that they could barely cover repair costs for running end game content. So are all regular players simply to lazy to put in any effort to make large amounts of gil, and come to the forums to complain about it?
#4 Nov 11 2013 at 7:59 AM Rating: Excellent
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There was a documentary a few years back about the WoW gold farmers. At least one company featured in the documentary had guys who were running bots on 12/hour shifts, sleeping in a dorm, and sending some of the money they made back home to their parents.

For them, playing video games all day > working on the family farm all day. Can't really blame them.
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#5 Nov 11 2013 at 8:11 AM Rating: Decent
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Im not sure if I agree with the economy part of it. If any of you remember the debacle in 2005 when the RMT **** near owned the economy on every XI server it was fairly easy how the RMT earned so much money. They would farm crafting materials with multiple toons (bots?) and put them up for a low amount just to have another RMT buy it for a higher amount until the prices were astronomically high. This repeated all the way up to some of the higher priced items including NM Drops which saw the Emp Hairpin escalate to a whopping 20 million on Garuda at one point.

It's very possible the same concept is happening here in XIV. Crafting materials aren't very hard to get, and some of us have witnessed the botting of Karkul and Diremites. Escalate the prices via bots and other players or RMT purchasing the items at a higher price to set the bar....Rake in the cash when legit players pay for the inflated items.
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#6 Nov 11 2013 at 8:23 AM Rating: Good
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GavilrainOfGaruda wrote:
Im not sure if I agree with the economy part of it. If any of you remember the debacle in 2005 when the RMT **** near owned the economy on every XI server it was fairly easy how the RMT earned so much money. They would farm crafting materials with multiple toons (bots?) and put them up for a low amount just to have another RMT buy it for a higher amount until the prices were astronomically high. This repeated all the way up to some of the higher priced items including NM Drops which saw the Emp Hairpin escalate to a whopping 20 million on Garuda at one point.

It's very possible the same concept is happening here in XIV. Crafting materials aren't very hard to get, and some of us have witnessed the botting of Karkul and Diremites. Escalate the prices via bots and other players or RMT purchasing the items at a higher price to set the bar....Rake in the cash when legit players pay for the inflated items.



I made a killing off that time period, i was planning on leaving for a while so I sold every thing i had. Came back about a year and half later and the prices were back down to normal and I was able to fully gear myself with lots to spare. I do miss that era of gaming though, nothing is like those times (prior to 2005).
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#7 Nov 11 2013 at 3:59 PM Rating: Decent
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When you sign in to the game you agree to the "Terms of Service" conditions.
If SE really wanted to stop Gil Sellers they would have a clause in it that states any company who sells gil through this game will be breaking the law and prosecuted. That way when you see "www.gilforsaleorwhatever.com" advertised in game, SE would have every right to take down that company since they signed a legal contract by agreeing to the terms of service.

It just seems like SE doesnt really care if all they do is ban people in the game while the obvious websites to buy gil are up and running, easily found with a google search. Attack the companies, take down the websites, not ban the player who is just going to make another.
#8 Nov 11 2013 at 4:06 PM Rating: Excellent
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aadrenry wrote:
When you sign in to the game you agree to the "Terms of Service" conditions.
If SE really wanted to stop Gil Sellers they would have a clause in it that states any company who sells gil through this game will be breaking the law and prosecuted. That way when you see "www.gilforsaleorwhatever.com" advertised in game, SE would have every right to take down that company since they signed a legal contract by agreeing to the terms of service.

It just seems like SE doesnt really care if all they do is ban people in the game while the obvious websites to buy gil are up and running, easily found with a google search. Attack the companies, take down the websites, not ban the player who is just going to make another.


Things don't get so cut and dried when you're dealing with international law. That's all fine and dandy for any RMT operations within Japan itself, but from what we know RMT in Japan is limited to hikikomori who didn't get the memo in Welcome to the NHK. (In that series, a shut-in flirts with RMT in an FFXI clone and discovers that he's not hardcore enough to make a living doing it. He also proudly introduced himself to other places as RMT, earning him some pretty dubious looks.)
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#9 Nov 11 2013 at 5:49 PM Rating: Default
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Good point, I suppose with many people saying that alot of the RMT's are based in China they can hide from prosecution as Japan and China dont exactly see eye to eye.

Edited, Nov 11th 2013 6:49pm by aadrenry
#10 Nov 11 2013 at 5:57 PM Rating: Excellent
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aadrenry wrote:
When you sign in to the game you agree to the "Terms of Service" conditions.
If SE really wanted to stop Gil Sellers they would have a clause in it that states any company who sells gil through this game will be breaking the law and prosecuted. That way when you see "www.gilforsaleorwhatever.com" advertised in game, SE would have every right to take down that company since they signed a legal contract by agreeing to the terms of service.

It just seems like SE doesnt really care if all they do is ban people in the game while the obvious websites to buy gil are up and running, easily found with a google search. Attack the companies, take down the websites, not ban the player who is just going to make another.


How people offer solutions to difficult problems on the internet:

Step 1. Break the problem into 2 parts. Make the easy part seem hard to solve, and the hard part seem easy to solve.
Step 2. State the solution to the easy part. Congratulate yourself on your brilliant solution.
Step 3. Cast shame everyone else involved for not solving the hard part.
#11 Nov 11 2013 at 8:23 PM Rating: Good
SistinasAria wrote:
I understand the concept, but what I don't understand, and what no one ever seems to be able to answer is, how? How does anyone, let alone an rmt, farm enough of any item to make 10 mil gil in a relatively short amount of time? If they are not hacking or exploiting, then they are doing nothing more than any legit player can do. So how do they make millions of gil on a daily basis? Why aren't regular players doing it? We all know how hard it is to generate gil. For weeks players complained that they could barely cover repair costs for running end game content. So are all regular players simply to lazy to put in any effort to make large amounts of gil, and come to the forums to complain about it?


No one seemed to touch your post, I will.

How: well they are running a bot 24/7. They have 0 need to be in front of the PC. These people actually go on about their regular lives. Maybe go to work/school. Heck maybe they even run the bot while at work on a work PC and can check the game here and there to make sure stuff is going fine.

But that much money a day? No. Unless they found a droppable item and no one else has payed attention to said item, and this item NPCs for a lot, the break down just does that, breaks down to XXMoney/Day. Selling items on the AH/Market board can take time. So if all materials farmed on Monday were put up for sale by the end of the day, maybe by Wed all were sold, "Monday's" farm = 10m (lets just say that).

A legit player can not make this money. They might be able to be close, but that is them not giving out information. IE: Farm the black sheeps right outside of Dragonhead will give you fleece. That stuff sells like hot cakes. If this information was not told, or it took a little while for others to catch on. The 1 or 2 who know, would be making a good amount of currency. Until others catch on and they would have to find something else or fight for claims. The other way to to offer a craft, you setting the price. But much like the AH/Market Board, there will be someone who also can make Y Item, and do it for "cheaper" to get the money.

Gil is not hard to make in this game. If you are having a hard time, say so. The above about black sheep is true. Farming any type of crystal (shards seem to sell faster) can make easy ok/decent gil.

Yes. These people are lazy. Then they come here or to other forums and complain. The odd thing is, these people also all almost at the same time stop complaining. Why?
Well no one likes to be called out, but last time I was online (about a week ago?) you could buy like 1mil gil for like $5USD on the realm I'm on. Not calling people out, but.... c'mon (or hey, they actually stopped rushing end game and had to go farm, and the were cool enough to share how they made money for repairs)
----------------------------Rest is my thoughts---------------------------------------
RMT bad? Maybe. I'm sure to get flamed, but whatever. I have no problem defending what I have done in the past...

RMT are not out to destroy the economy as people say they are. They hardly ever actually crash it. "Legit" players do that. Most RMT companies bring the cost of materials/gear up to a price and attempt to hold it there. It is almost always going to be better to go off and farm items yourself to have food/gear made, but this is where "lazy" people come into play. Why spend a few hours farming when you could just buy item/materials off the AH. "Legit" player 1,2,3,4 and 5 come along and undercut each other. RMT has lots of money to spend, so they may just buy said cheaper items, and repost at higher price.
*shucks* if you had only clicked a little faster you might have got that [insert pricey item] and [holy crap way cheaper the the next one] one. "Legit" player 1,2,3,4 and 5 may repeat this over and over. I say "legit", I mean people who think they are playing by the actual real honest "rules".

RMT Companies aim their service at people who just don't have the same "free" time as maybe someone else. You basically are paying for someone else's time. You give them money, they give you: Gil, Gear, and if you are silly enough to give them account info leveled character (most then forget to change ALL their info, and yea, the RMT will do this for you. Claim your character, and to make even more REAL money, name change it, and sell it on Ebay :p)
I only get 3 hours at max during the Week to play, and a bit more on the weekend... that is if I play. Normal life can be fun, but on rainy nights/weekends when I don't feel like getting out is when I play games (usually MMOs, like FFXIV atm).
Some people just do not want to be left so far behind. So buying gil helps them not have to stop doing whatever it is they are doing (leveling, endgame). I'm still leveling. I might get to 50 by the end of the month >.> (lv43 atm!.. I think Smiley: laugh)

Have I ever bought game currency? Yes. Why? Because I was lazy and didn't want to spend weeks farming to even try to "catch" up from not playing the game for years. What game you ask? FFXI. I was gone for many years (5 maybe?). The 30k I had was not going to get me anywhere, and I could not make gil like others could at the time (chocobo blinders?) So I bought 2mil, used it to gear up so I didn't feel totally useless, and then was able to remake that gil and then some back a few months down the road. Regrets? Nah.
Played for about a year before quitting again. But before quitting I was part of a team who were "mercenaries", and was how I made large chucks of gil. People paid us for our time to win at different things (BCNMs, triggers in abby).

Mercenary is the new way to hide RMT. Some are legit players out to sell their play time for in-game currency so you can get past whatever is holding you back. These people save the currency or use it for whatever their needs are.
Or they could be RMT.
A college kid who only has classes 2 days of a week and is unable to find a part time job. He likes [insert game] and finds others who share a similar schedule. They play, make a static team and merc out time. The one sells his share for money, maybe the rest do not know.
The catch 22: If someone knew this payer IRL (and I just made him up, but I'm sure there are people who can wear the shoes) had went strait to him and handed him $10 to get them through obsticle (in a game) is it still RMT? yes, yes it is.

"RMT" Bots, and not usually created by RMT companies. I can back this up. I've used bots. I know of many for FFXIV (and WoW). They were all player based created to assist said player so they could step away from computer (or like I said above, bot to make gil). They might put bot up on the net and charge $5 to get program, RMT company comes around and buys it. They bot 24/7 while creator might only use it when he is home and wants to do other things, but still want to gather (Time. It always comes down to time). Bots are not hard to make, if you have any programming skills one could make their own. Smart bot creators change nothing to the memory of the game, and it is all windows based. SE, Blizz, Whoever has a real hard time proving you are a bot if it is Windows based program doing the botting.

And I'm getting bored typing, so I'll throw this in here: Children. If yo let your children play your character and they "farm" for you...you still have to pay them. Think about it. Your children do not run on empty. Food, liquid, TP (cuz all that intake has to become outtake, we not saiyans). Costly.

Basically, Time is Money. RMT companies will find all avenues, and then offer you what ever you want if you just pay for the time.

Edited, Nov 11th 2013 8:28pm by Sandinmygum
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#12 Nov 11 2013 at 9:42 PM Rating: Decent
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GavilrainOfGaruda wrote:
Im not sure if I agree with the economy part of it. If any of you remember the debacle in 2005 when the RMT **** near owned the economy on every XI server it was fairly easy how the RMT earned so much money. They would farm crafting materials with multiple toons (bots?) and put them up for a low amount just to have another RMT buy it for a higher amount until the prices were astronomically high. This repeated all the way up to some of the higher priced items including NM Drops which saw the Emp Hairpin escalate to a whopping 20 million on Garuda at one point.


XI in 2005 was an 'exploit'(read: huge oversight by SE) that anyone could take advantage of, not just RMT. It was all fished out of thin air which is why it had such an impact. Thousands of players, both RMT and legit, fishing items up and vendoring them inflates the economy. Materials had nothing to do with it other than it was a way for RMT to move large amounts of gil from player to player without being flagged for trading.

aadrenry wrote:
That way when you see "www.gilforsaleorwhatever.com" advertised in game, SE would have every right to take down that company since they signed a legal contract by agreeing to the terms of service.


You can make a website saying that you are selling something illegal. Unless people actually catch you dealing, there isn't much they can do. The fine print part of the ToS basically says that SE reserves the right to ban your account at will. The fact that they exercise that right is pretty much as far as they're willing to go.

The way SE has set up the game, it's almost as if they were trying to create a perfect market for RMT to thrive.

Difficult to create or obtain items + little to no gil moving into the economy = High demand for gil

Perhaps if SE had taken the opposite approach and allowed more gil into the economy they might be better off; not just in terms of how players are enjoying the game but how much of an impact that RMT has.
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#13 Nov 12 2013 at 4:38 AM Rating: Default
Why do you think they bought that subsidiary in China? How about a nice, quick & dirty infusion of cash on the sly for SE? Laws are lax as **** there as opposed to ...well just about everywhere else SE does business. I find this more than coincidental, and I'm anything but a conspiracy theorist having been trained in and worked in hard science all my life.
#14 Nov 13 2013 at 3:12 PM Rating: Decent
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Another way they make money is buying gil from players. They also buy characters etc from people that quit. I knew people who sold their characters for allot of money when they quit. They sell them to the gill sellers who in turn turn around and sell them....
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