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The long waits for updatesFollow

#102 Nov 14 2013 at 2:07 PM Rating: Decent
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Releaser wrote:
I'm inferring, as an admin, you should shepherd threads at most not dominate them.


wut
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#103 Nov 14 2013 at 2:41 PM Rating: Excellent
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Inferring

Not to be confused with:

In Furring

Edited, Nov 14th 2013 3:43pm by Hairspray
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#104 Nov 14 2013 at 3:45 PM Rating: Decent
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Quote:
Infer is sometimes confused with imply
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#105 Nov 14 2013 at 3:50 PM Rating: Excellent
Or Infurrying.
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#106 Nov 14 2013 at 3:53 PM Rating: Good
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Thayos wrote:


If you haven't seen this yet, here is the craziest furry story I've ever heard:

1,000 ways to die: Em-Bear-Assed
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#107 Nov 14 2013 at 4:28 PM Rating: Good
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Thayos wrote:
Wow, I wonder if the culture around here has really shifted that much? Color me surprised.
A few idiot trolls =/= a culture shift

Look, if you want to go play in another sandbox more to your liking, go for it. The admins here are not lavishly paid (or in some cases not paid at all I'd bet), are by and large extremely well-versed gamers with strong opinions, and all have a passion for the board they work on. I love that they will speak on topics. I love that they interact with us. They never abuse their power. I mean, seriously, if that's your concern, realize that they let you disagree with them. They could just as easily nuke your posts, suspend or ban you at their whim if they were so inclined. Instead, they debate as if they were just another forum member, just one with better manners.

If your pity panties are in a bind because you cannot dole out a rate-down (for all the **** that actually does), well terribly sorry boyo, you're out of luck. Drew Carey said it best, to paraphrase:

Welcome to Allakhazam, the forum where everything's made up and the karma don't matter. That's right the karma is just like tasteful shoes to Ryan Stiles.


Now, as to the persistent whine about no endgame, as has been pointed out by countless games, countless times, your hardcore represents a fraction of the population. I've heard numbers varying between 1% to at most 20% of the player base, with those higher percentages likely attributed more to a reduced overall population than an increased hardcore population. The reasons for this are diverse and varied, but it boils down to the fact that to be hardcore requires a fairly hefty time investment either on a regular schedule or in large blocks of time... or both. Designing content for these people is an utterly losing battle.

The reason it cannot be done is that, in order to produce enough significantly new content rather than just reskins or hard modes (which people are already complaining about in this very thread) requires the devs invest a lot of time and energy to build the environment, balance the encounters, test for bugs, design the rewards and balance those rewards. This is not a short process, unless you want broken, half-done content. On top of that, you need to keep maintaining the current game, fixing bugs and such, as well as develop future content, like true expansions and added storyline. Not to mention that all of these steps require art, scripting, in some cases storylining... That's a ton of work. A ton of work that the hardcore crowd will burn through at an incredible pace. So all those manhours might result in weeks, maybe a month or two, of content for these grinders unless they set arbitrary limits (another thing already complained about in this thread).

Realistically, they want the broadest audience possible, and the broadest set of rewards possible. Housing allows for rewards to be less tangible, and allows for branching content (ship/airship building). PvP allows for alternate grinding and gearing. Card games allow for another avenue of rewards. Hairstylists allow for something fun to reward players with (complete this challenge, earn this hairstyle, et cetera). They are trying to be diverse because those people who do not live and breathe the game are more numerous than those that do. What you're complaining about is how they intend to keep the game alive. So which would you rather have, a game alive with players, or one desolated except for a small few who are jammed into the same content you want to do?
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#108 Nov 14 2013 at 4:55 PM Rating: Good
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I don't have a problem with admins posting. They're human. They have ideas, concerns, questions and sometimes even rants they feel the need to share. I don't think they should have to surrender their right to free speech simply because they're admin.

I wouldn't read or respond to Thayos posts any differently if he didn't have an orange nameplate.

Edited, Nov 14th 2013 5:56pm by FilthMcNasty
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30 bucks is almost free

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Its personal preference and all, but yes we need to educate WoW players that this is OUR game, these are Characters and not Toons. Time to beat that into them one at a time.
#109 Nov 14 2013 at 5:11 PM Rating: Good
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Just knowing that they were working on a full sized expansion, complete with a raise in the level cap, a new city, new story line, new gear and dungeons, maybe even new Jobs, would be great. I don't even care when it is coming. 1 year, 3 years, whatever. I just want to know it's coming.

Edited, Nov 14th 2013 6:12pm by Gnu
#110 Nov 14 2013 at 5:16 PM Rating: Good
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All I can say on the admin thing is there would've been some lulz on the XI boards if I got hired instead of ImperialNinja back in the day.
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#111 Nov 15 2013 at 12:28 AM Rating: Good
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Gnu wrote:
Just knowing that they were working on a full sized expansion, complete with a raise in the level cap, a new city, new story line, new gear and dungeons, maybe even new Jobs, would be great.


A lot of people don't know this about me, but... I live right next door to Yoshi P. I went over and explained to him how unsettled you are that you don't know when the expansion is coming. Like a smartass he said "Please look forward to it" and laughed. I held up an crudely drawn picture of a fanboy in a PS4 t-shirt standing outside of his house with a pitchfork and laughed. "ARR is an expansion" he said with a twinkle in his eye. I told him I already knew when the expansion would be coming out and that I was just there to get the fight stick I let him borrow. He never really gave me a date for the expansion, but he looked a bit concerned when he saw the picture I'd drawn.

The expansion will probably come with the PS4. The beta starts in roughly 3 months. As history has shown, SE can push a beta out infinitely and still get people to be sympathetic for them(and sometimes even pay for it). They can bundle it as XIV 1.0 + ARR + [expansion name here] and sell it in a collector's edition for those who didn't pick it up at the first or the second-first launch. Seems legit to me.

Anyway, I congratulated him as I left with my stick. He's a nice guy and he works hard. He's never home during the day and at night, you know he's up working. I just hope SE uses some of the money they projected in their latest quarterly earnings report to get him a bigger staff. He looks tired (∂_∂)

Edited, Nov 15th 2013 1:28am by FilthMcNasty
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Rinsui wrote:
Only hips + boobs all day and hips + boobs all over my icecream

HaibaneRenmei wrote:
30 bucks is almost free

cocodojo wrote:
Its personal preference and all, but yes we need to educate WoW players that this is OUR game, these are Characters and not Toons. Time to beat that into them one at a time.
#112 Nov 15 2013 at 9:56 AM Rating: Decent
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Pawkeshup the Meaningless wrote:
Thayos wrote:
Wow, I wonder if the culture around here has really shifted that much? Color me surprised.
A few idiot trolls =/= a culture shift

Look, if you want to go play in another sandbox more to your liking, go for it. The admins here are not lavishly paid (or in some cases not paid at all I'd bet), are by and large extremely well-versed gamers with strong opinions, and all have a passion for the board they work on. I love that they will speak on topics. I love that they interact with us. They never abuse their power. I mean, seriously, if that's your concern, realize that they let you disagree with them. They could just as easily nuke your posts, suspend or ban you at their whim if they were so inclined. Instead, they debate as if they were just another forum member, just one with better manners.

If your pity panties are in a bind because you cannot dole out a rate-down (for all the @#%^ that actually does), well terribly sorry boyo, you're out of luck. Drew Carey said it best, to paraphrase:

Welcome to Allakhazam, the forum where everything's made up and the karma don't matter. That's right the karma is just like tasteful shoes to Ryan Stiles.


Now, as to the persistent whine about no endgame, as has been pointed out by countless games, countless times, your hardcore represents a fraction of the population. I've heard numbers varying between 1% to at most 20% of the player base, with those higher percentages likely attributed more to a reduced overall population than an increased hardcore population. The reasons for this are diverse and varied, but it boils down to the fact that to be hardcore requires a fairly hefty time investment either on a regular schedule or in large blocks of time... or both. Designing content for these people is an utterly losing battle.

The reason it cannot be done is that, in order to produce enough significantly new content rather than just reskins or hard modes (which people are already complaining about in this very thread) requires the devs invest a lot of time and energy to build the environment, balance the encounters, test for bugs, design the rewards and balance those rewards. This is not a short process, unless you want broken, half-done content. On top of that, you need to keep maintaining the current game, fixing bugs and such, as well as develop future content, like true expansions and added storyline. Not to mention that all of these steps require art, scripting, in some cases storylining... That's a ton of work. A ton of work that the hardcore crowd will burn through at an incredible pace. So all those manhours might result in weeks, maybe a month or two, of content for these grinders unless they set arbitrary limits (another thing already complained about in this thread).

Realistically, they want the broadest audience possible, and the broadest set of rewards possible. Housing allows for rewards to be less tangible, and allows for branching content (ship/airship building). PvP allows for alternate grinding and gearing. Card games allow for another avenue of rewards. Hairstylists allow for something fun to reward players with (complete this challenge, earn this hairstyle, et cetera). They are trying to be diverse because those people who do not live and breathe the game are more numerous than those that do. What you're complaining about is how they intend to keep the game alive. So which would you rather have, a game alive with players, or one desolated except for a small few who are jammed into the same content you want to do?


QFT
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#113 Nov 15 2013 at 12:12 PM Rating: Good
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FilthMcNasty wrote:
Gnu wrote:
Just knowing that they were working on a full sized expansion, complete with a raise in the level cap, a new city, new story line, new gear and dungeons, maybe even new Jobs, would be great.


A lot of people don't know this about me, but... I live right next door to Yoshi P. I went over and explained to him how unsettled you are that you don't know when the expansion is coming. Like a smartass he said "Please look forward to it" and laughed. I held up an crudely drawn picture of a fanboy in a PS4 t-shirt standing outside of his house with a pitchfork and laughed. "ARR is an expansion" he said with a twinkle in his eye. I told him I already knew when the expansion would be coming out and that I was just there to get the fight stick I let him borrow. He never really gave me a date for the expansion, but he looked a bit concerned when he saw the picture I'd drawn.

The expansion will probably come with the PS4. The beta starts in roughly 3 months. As history has shown, SE can push a beta out infinitely and still get people to be sympathetic for them(and sometimes even pay for it). They can bundle it as XIV 1.0 + ARR + [expansion name here] and sell it in a collector's edition for those who didn't pick it up at the first or the second-first launch. Seems legit to me.

Anyway, I congratulated him as I left with my stick. He's a nice guy and he works hard. He's never home during the day and at night, you know he's up working. I just hope SE uses some of the money they projected in their latest quarterly earnings report to get him a bigger staff. He looks tired (∂_∂)


Haha, nice Filth. Thanks for letting him know. My job here is done.
#114 Nov 15 2013 at 12:17 PM Rating: Excellent


A great way for SE to make some extra money would be to make a single-player version of 1.0 featured around the End of an Era storyline. Just reuse as much from 1.0 as possible, add in some NPCs and make the game download-only. Then you really could make Filth's bundle!
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#115 Nov 15 2013 at 12:53 PM Rating: Good
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Would it come complete with the game crashing as soon as you enter Mor Dhorna?
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#116 Nov 15 2013 at 1:34 PM Rating: Excellent
The climactic ending!

And then the credits would actually be a giant apology.

Edited, Nov 15th 2013 11:36am by Thayos
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#117 Nov 15 2013 at 2:54 PM Rating: Decent
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I'm trying to figure out why I spent most of the day here at work missing 1.0 and watching/listening to old vids from pre-meteor. I think it's like 90% the soundtrack that is doing it to me, but there's totally something else going on. A game is more than just its (poorly implemented) mechanics, and 1.0 had something weird/quirky/dark about it that grabbed me. I know it's not just a case of rose colored glasses, because I remember feeling this way while I was playing it (at least when I wasn't being frustrated at the horrible bits of the game).

Anyway, would totally play a single player recap of 1.0. Only if Tanaka produces it though.
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#118 Nov 15 2013 at 2:56 PM Rating: Excellent
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All I can remember from 1.0 right now is how awful it was trying to get to aetherytes surrounded by level 70 monsters. Or to go through the long miserable tunnels in The Black Shroud surrounded by level 70 monsters. Why the heck did they have so many level 70 monsters???

Mor Dhorna was beautiful, though. Probably the best zone in the game.
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Thayos wrote:
I can't understand anyone who skips the cutscenes of a Final Fantasy game. That's like going to Texas and not getting barbecue.

FFXIV: Katarh Mest and Taprara Rara on Lamia Server - Member of The Swarm
Curator of the XIV Wallpapers Tumblr and the XIV Fashion Tumblr
#119 Nov 15 2013 at 3:26 PM Rating: Decent
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Mor Dhona also had the most sinister creepy synth-organ music. I kinda miss the level 70-90 mobs lurking around certain areas of the zones though. Nothing dangerous like that in 2.0. I guess I'm just starting to feel like Yoshi swung the pendulum too far in the other direction or something.
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#120 Nov 15 2013 at 3:34 PM Rating: Excellent
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I think there's a place for level 70+ mobs in the game, and that's after players can get to level 70 themselves. Smiley: disappointed

There are some pretty ugly places in ARR (beastman areas), but if you're level 50 they aren't horrifically deadly, and you can outrun the 45+ monsters via chocobo.

FFXI had lots of nasty-mob infested places, but it also had Sneak/Invisible available to all jobs through one for or another, so the danger was minimal if you knew what you were doing.

I've got my fisher (now level 47) on macro in case I need to Stealth my way anywhere that my levle 38 CNJ would get killed.
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Thayos wrote:
I can't understand anyone who skips the cutscenes of a Final Fantasy game. That's like going to Texas and not getting barbecue.

FFXIV: Katarh Mest and Taprara Rara on Lamia Server - Member of The Swarm
Curator of the XIV Wallpapers Tumblr and the XIV Fashion Tumblr
#121 Nov 15 2013 at 3:59 PM Rating: Excellent
I think what made 1.0 awesome was KNOWING we would fail... yet pushing on anyway to stop the White Raven.

Although the final world event was botched, that End of An Era cutscene was pure excellence... that made going through the entire journey worth it.
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#122 Nov 15 2013 at 4:03 PM Rating: Default
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Eh, i'd like to have mobs that you can't solo at 50 roaming around the game. Maybe not as many as in 1.0. You can outrun anything anyway, no real need for stealth aside from actually gathering. Idk, I'm trying to figure out where the vague dissatisfaction i am suddenly feeling came from. It may just be that my server is packed, and I'm missing the relative emptiness of 1.0 (i know, sounds weird). Or maybe its the emphasis on instanced content. Either way, it's not like i'm not still having fun, so guess I'll just stop thinking about it.
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#123 Nov 15 2013 at 4:13 PM Rating: Excellent
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You can easily recreate that 1.0 feeling by spamming the same four battle leves over and over and over again Smiley: schooled
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Thayos wrote:
I can't understand anyone who skips the cutscenes of a Final Fantasy game. That's like going to Texas and not getting barbecue.

FFXIV: Katarh Mest and Taprara Rara on Lamia Server - Member of The Swarm
Curator of the XIV Wallpapers Tumblr and the XIV Fashion Tumblr
#124 Nov 15 2013 at 4:44 PM Rating: Default
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Thayos wrote:
I think what made 1.0 awesome was KNOWING we would fail... yet pushing on anyway to stop the White Raven.

Although the final world event was botched, that End of An Era cutscene was pure excellence... that made going through the entire journey worth it.


There's something to that, yes. Certainly part of my nostalgia has a lot to do with the awesome dark atmosphere leading up to the end of the world as we knew it. That kind of tragedy is pretty inescapably epic.

Sidebar, while watching old story CSes, I was surprised to see that the player actually has a premonition of what appears to be meteor exploding all over eorzea's sky in the very first CS. I guess that was planned as a thing that was going to happen one way or another regardless of the 1.0 fail.
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#125 Nov 15 2013 at 10:23 PM Rating: Excellent
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Boy that is one massive derailment...

So back to the discussion about pushing the update farther back. Hypothetically speaking, if I tried crafting and gave up, what else would there be to do when you log on except DF primals for ***** and giggles?

In 11, I at least had something to do after dynamis. I could randomly go hunt for a coffer key on a certain area to unlock the map for that area. I could look for people in town shouting for help for a variety of things (AF quests, doing the trial fights for summoners, etc), search for people in particular level ranges to see if there was a viable party forming to exp with on an odd job, I could fish on a boat that had some neat events on it, and quite a few other things I am neglecting atm.

But perhaps it's unfair to compare 14 to 11. Maybe 14 to WoW is more accurate with DF in place. What could you do outside of dungeon/raid finder in WoW? You could also queue for PVP, farm 'old content' for the fun of it, and...I can't really think of anything else. Maybe leveling crafts (which you can do so in 14) or going fishing/gathering (can do this in 14 as well). Really, the only thing that kept me logged into WoW outside of raid night was leveling an alt or PVPing.

Maybe I'm forgetting something...but when I compare the two, I see that maybe this is the norm and that 11 was the special case.

Right now, though, I have little to no motivation to log in at all. Done with all of coil and my will to level crafting is only as strong as my will to max every class (DoW/DoM and DoL/DoH). That is to say, not very strong!
#126 Nov 15 2013 at 11:32 PM Rating: Excellent
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HitomeOfBismarck wrote:
In 11, I at least had something to do after dynamis. I could randomly go hunt for a coffer key on a certain area to unlock the map for that area. I could look for people in town shouting for help for a variety of things (AF quests, doing the trial fights for summoners, etc), search for people in particular level ranges to see if there was a viable party forming to exp with on an odd job, I could fish on a boat that had some neat events on it, and quite a few other things I am neglecting atm.


You could do an escort mission for an exp scroll. You could do the level 60 BCNM for JSE. You could... you could... you could realize that FFXI is 11 years old. There is a lot to do when you compare XI to XIV, but to be fair to XIV; you will probably have the same options should the game stick around for more than a decade. That said, even when you compare them to each other on even terms as far as how long they've been around it's still still a bit lopsided. Especially when you consider that XIV fell back on the mechanics of other games

I do see your point though and I've made it myself, just with games that have been released shortly before or after XIV. It's just going to be a matter of how much patience people have with SE. I like the game, but I'm not compelled to login and play frequently enough to warrant a subscription... yet. I'm sure that sometime in the future there will be enough content that we have to ration our playing time in order to participate in all of it. I guess it's just a matter of if you're patient enough to wait until then.
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Rinsui wrote:
Only hips + boobs all day and hips + boobs all over my icecream

HaibaneRenmei wrote:
30 bucks is almost free

cocodojo wrote:
Its personal preference and all, but yes we need to educate WoW players that this is OUR game, these are Characters and not Toons. Time to beat that into them one at a time.
#127 Nov 16 2013 at 4:16 AM Rating: Excellent
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HitomeOfBismarck wrote:
Boy that is one massive derailment...

So back to the discussion about pushing the update farther back. Hypothetically speaking, if I tried crafting and gave up, what else would there be to do when you log on except DF primals for sh*ts and giggles?

In 11, I at least had something to do after dynamis. I could randomly go hunt for a coffer key on a certain area to unlock the map for that area. I could look for people in town shouting for help for a variety of things (AF quests, doing the trial fights for summoners, etc), search for people in particular level ranges to see if there was a viable party forming to exp with on an odd job, I could fish on a boat that had some neat events on it, and quite a few other things I am neglecting atm.

But perhaps it's unfair to compare 14 to 11. Maybe 14 to WoW is more accurate with DF in place. What could you do outside of dungeon/raid finder in WoW? You could also queue for PVP, farm 'old content' for the fun of it, and...I can't really think of anything else. Maybe leveling crafts (which you can do so in 14) or going fishing/gathering (can do this in 14 as well). Really, the only thing that kept me logged into WoW outside of raid night was leveling an alt or PVPing.

Maybe I'm forgetting something...but when I compare the two, I see that maybe this is the norm and that 11 was the special case.

Right now, though, I have little to no motivation to log in at all. Done with all of coil and my will to level crafting is only as strong as my will to max every class (DoW/DoM and DoL/DoH). That is to say, not very strong!


I think what we have to realize here is that with FFXI, SE went out of their way to make everything as slow and painful and non-solo friendly as possible, when FFXI was in its prime. For those of us who "grew up" with FFXI, we might be used to this style of play, sure, but the modern MMORPG player? If SE tried to make FFXIV mirror FFXI in terms of how long it takes to progress in the game in general, I can guarantee the top complaint would be "OMG Korean grinder ***** this" and people would be dropping like flies.

I admit, as much as I love this game, I am also losing motivation to log in. However, boredom is only part of the reason (I'm slowly trying to level MRD and related classes up, so I want to enjoy the game from a tank perspective). My friends aren't logging on as much either, either due to RL or boredom as well. RL is also doing it's thing to me as well, plus I have a backlog of other games I'm trying to play (Pokemon, Ace Attorney 5, Dragon's Crown, friend making me try WoW as well). But I've always been preaching that a MMORPG doesn't need to be entertaining every single day for it to be worth anything. If I get bored, or if others get bored, it's perfectly fine to drop the game and wait for a patch or two to come out, or even wait for an expansion to come out before returning. People always act like because "there's nothing to do NOW" means the game is going to flop instantly, when that's hardly ever the case.
#128 Nov 16 2013 at 10:24 AM Rating: Decent
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Arcari wrote:
People always act like because "there's nothing to do NOW" means the game is going to flop instantly, when that's hardly ever the case.


Your statement doesn't really work when we're dealing with the first 6 months of a game. Post a year and there's a few content patches under our belt then yes.
#129 Nov 16 2013 at 11:03 AM Rating: Excellent
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Just wanted to chime in that I stopped looking at Thayos, Wint, and other Admins here as authroity figures and more people having to do their job years ago. (I think even before Wint became an admin, even.)

And, to be honest, I prefer this type of Administration to any other, especially when it comes to the moderators in the official boards. The official board mods are barely visible, neigh inhuman entities that leave a profound sense of separation between the community and staff.

Here we're all part of the community, regardless of our positions in it. And I'm thankful for it.
#130 Nov 16 2013 at 2:56 PM Rating: Decent
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I'm fairly confident if we can keep this conversation going for another three weeks or so the point will be moot.
#131 Nov 16 2013 at 5:39 PM Rating: Decent
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Medieve wrote:
I'm fairly confident if we can keep this conversation going for another three weeks or so the point will be moot.


What was the point again?
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#132 Nov 16 2013 at 6:23 PM Rating: Good
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Zorvan wrote:
Medieve wrote:
I'm fairly confident if we can keep this conversation going for another three weeks or so the point will be moot.


What was the point again?


Can't remember. Too busy playing PS4 to care.
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Rinsui wrote:
Only hips + boobs all day and hips + boobs all over my icecream

HaibaneRenmei wrote:
30 bucks is almost free

cocodojo wrote:
Its personal preference and all, but yes we need to educate WoW players that this is OUR game, these are Characters and not Toons. Time to beat that into them one at a time.
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