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Question about AV / WP ae fightsFollow

#1 Nov 18 2013 at 9:07 AM Rating: Decent
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So i have had a few issues with ae fights and i was wondering if there was some feed back.

1) In Wanderers palace, on the slime fight: what are the slimes resistant too/weak too, typically slimes are blunt resistant, magic weak in other FF games, which made me think a blm should have been fine.

When I go WHM i ae with holy and it seems 2 ae is enough to help kill everything
When I go as pld I have 1 ae, so switch to sword stance, pop + dmg buffs, ae circle of scorn /pray dd finish it
When I go as relic + 1 mnk, we never seem to be able to finish them unless we have certain classes.
MNK + BLM + SCH + PLD = fail, even with everyone with relics, we just couldnt ae them down, i though blm were better at ae and it would be fine, but nope, 10+ tries will all DL geared and relic people and no go.
MNK + BLM + WHM + PLD = easy win
MNK + BRD + anything else = easy win

2) Finally beat Aurum vale
PLD + MNK + BLM + WHM, me as the pld, mnk and blm both relic geared with DL. WHM is pug from DF.

The only way we could kill the fruit before they hatch was having the WHM run in with holy and cleric stance, and it took about 2 casts to help finish them. First round fruit died fine, second round 1 of the fruit hatched, immediately killed, round 3 we had 3 survive and we ignored the fruit and burned the last 3% because WHM was oom.

Is there a trick to killing these, because once the adds spawn if you dont destroy them immediately the tank dies on the next ae.

Obviouslly i am a monk and am well aware that mnk and pld are the weakest ae classes in the game, but i dont feel these fights should be so hard.

Edited, Nov 18th 2013 10:08am by dustinfoley
#2 Nov 18 2013 at 9:17 AM Rating: Excellent
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dustinfoley wrote:
So i have had a few issues with ae fights and i was wondering if there was some feed back.

1) In Wanderers palace, on the slime fight: what are the slimes resistant too/weak too, typically slimes are blunt resistant, magic weak in other FF games, which made me think a blm should have been fine.

When I go WHM i ae with holy and it seems 2 ae is enough to help kill everything
When I go as pld I have 1 ae, so switch to sword stance, pop + dmg buffs, ae circle of scorn /pray dd finish it
When I go as relic + 1 mnk, we never seem to be able to finish them unless we have certain classes.
MNK + BLM + SCH + PLD = fail, even with everyone with relics, we just couldnt ae them down, i though blm were better at ae and it would be fine, but nope, 10+ tries will all DL geared and relic people and no go.
MNK + BLM + WHM + PLD = easy win
MNK + BRD + anything else = easy win

2) Finally beat Aurum vale
PLD + MNK + BLM + WHM, me as the pld, mnk and blm both relic geared with DL. WHM is pug from DF.

The only way we could kill the fruit before they hatch was having the WHM run in with holy and cleric stance, and it took about 2 casts to help finish them. First round fruit died fine, second round 1 of the fruit hatched, immediately killed, round 3 we had 3 survive and we ignored the fruit and burned the last 3% because WHM was oom.

Is there a trick to killing these, because once the adds spawn if you dont destroy them immediately the tank dies on the next ae.

Obviouslly i am a monk and am well aware that mnk and pld are the weakest ae classes in the game, but i dont feel these fights should be so hard.

Edited, Nov 18th 2013 10:08am by dustinfoley



As blm, the first set of slimes in wp the tank will usually grab and pull in a central location and I then aoe with blizzard II or usually a flare will take them out. They do not like magic. As monk, make your priority to kill the blue slime first, that one heals. Very odd you are having trouble with an all relic team. Likely a side effect of folks being piggybacked through titan.

The trick to killing the spawns on the last boss in aurum vale is to notice where the boss runs to when it lays the patch of sprouts that will eventually become adds. Have the blm stand right there the whole battle and when the boss comes, have him/her spam blizzard II in the middle of those sprouts and they will die. Other dd should help the blm should one be coincidentally planted out of the aoe circle. If one sprout turns into an add, you should be fine. Two, thats a bit more difficult. The bard can also aoe if you have one. Unfortunately, monk and dragoon have a tougher time and you can not aoe kill adds as well (or at all) which makes me wonder why the duty finder would pair and monk and dragoon on that fight ever. Still, you guys have great single target limit breaks while blm and sum are only aoe lb and bard doesnt even have an lb that deals damage.

Edited, Nov 18th 2013 9:18am by Valkayree
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#3 Nov 18 2013 at 9:40 AM Rating: Good
I can't think of why you'd be having issues in WP with DL + Relic players. You're easily out-gearing the encounter. I go with my FC a lot as either PLD-WHM-DRG-BRD or WAR-SCH-DRG-BLM and we regularly kill the boss very shortly after 2nd set of slimes pops.

As a MNK, you'd do better to just single-target attack slimes till they are all down. They don't have much HP; My DRG takes them out in less than 2 combos. Let the BRD/BLM AOE them while you clean up.
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#4 Nov 18 2013 at 9:55 AM Rating: Good
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Thats kinda what i was afraid off.

You see all these people in full DL + relic and then their dmg is just so low that it seems like something is broken.

I really didnt get why a blm shouldnt be able to kill the adds in WP. I personally as a whm have had no issues with it, and i am partial vanya, not even +1 relic, and most jewlery is from AK.

#5 Nov 18 2013 at 10:19 AM Rating: Good
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dustinfoley wrote:
Thats kinda what i was afraid off.

You see all these people in full DL + relic and then their dmg is just so low that it seems like something is broken.

I really didnt get why a blm shouldnt be able to kill the adds in WP. I personally as a whm have had no issues with it, and i am partial vanya, not even +1 relic, and most jewlery is from AK.



As I stated above, too many people getting piggybacked through their relics without first demonstrating the use of mechanics.
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#6 Nov 18 2013 at 10:44 AM Rating: Decent
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You can tell who these people are as well. Just watch what skills they use. I often see dragoons in WP that never use heavy thrust for the 10% buff to damage. Using the duty finder though, you have to build a tolerance to this since you can never expect everyone to play properly.

Make your own party and run dungeons that way if youre worried about bad players.

I had a WP run once where our bard left for unknown reasons as we were doing well. We didnt get a replacement so we did the slime and final boss with 3 people. We all had relic +1 and the whm helped dps, but it still went extremely smooth. This dungeon is designed for AF gear so if your getting relic people that cant do the dungeon...yeah thats kind of bad.
#7 Nov 18 2013 at 1:39 PM Rating: Decent
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I can't fathom how its possible to not get past the slimes if you had a full party of Relic's...unless they just stood there and didn't even attack.
#8 Nov 18 2013 at 2:05 PM Rating: Good
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The only problem I've ever encountered on the slime boss were players (usually ones my FC group and resort to using DF to fill in the slot) don't pay attention to the target skill and end up getting face raped even though we warned them about this attack. As for the adds no group should have dificulty killing them as they don't have a lot of HP. I run SMN all the time on this dungeon and between my Shadow Flare and 4 dots they end up losing about half their health before the dots wear off. (if they even last that long).

I typically miasma II gather first set of 3 slimes, then I'll spur/rouse my enkindle for Egi-Garuda's Aerial Burst. This will usually kill them. The second set after they are gathered I usually LB the group. By this point the boss is usually dead.

Edited, Nov 18th 2013 2:05pm by Niknar
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#9 Nov 18 2013 at 2:54 PM Rating: Good
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If you are in a pt with everyone in full dl and relic +1 I can't even think of a way you could lose specially if ppl are using ae. My drg can kill them easily and never use a dps buffs. I mean I don't even attack adds anymore I just stay on boss and whm brd or blm just ae adds. Only way you could lose if people are afk or don't realize they are the target. Cuz at this point you are so over powered it don't matter if you know the ends and outs of your job you could have won with out even using combos
#10 Nov 18 2013 at 3:17 PM Rating: Decent
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I know when i am on monk my ae is pathetic in comparison to drg/whm/blm, i was just more shoked that with a relic blm we were unable to clear the jelly.
#11 Nov 18 2013 at 3:24 PM Rating: Good
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dustinfoley wrote:
2) Finally beat Aurum vale
PLD + MNK + BLM + WHM, me as the pld, mnk and blm both relic geared with DL. WHM is pug from DF.

The only way we could kill the fruit before they hatch was having the WHM run in with holy and cleric stance, and it took about 2 casts to help finish them. First round fruit died fine, second round 1 of the fruit hatched, immediately killed, round 3 we had 3 survive and we ignored the fruit and burned the last 3% because WHM was oom.

Is there a trick to killing these, because once the adds spawn if you dont destroy them immediately the tank dies on the next ae.

I've run AV twice as BLM. I've found that if I target Miser's Mistress with Fire II, I can hit all of the fruit with the AoE. And it takes 3 casts of Fire II to kill the fruit.

So my strategy was to try and keep my MP up close to max as much as possible (keep it above 1k MP so that casting Blizz III would bring MP back up to fill in a single tick). And when I saw Mistress start running away from the tank, I would start casting Fire III to make sure I would have my full 3 stacks of Astral Fire. I would have to wait a few seconds for Mistress to charge up, and I would try to time my first Fire II to that it would hit comfortably after the fruits popped. If I was worried about getting in the 3rd Fire II in time, I would pop Swiftcast before it.

It's probably important enough that the BLM should sacrifice everything else to make sure he gets in those 3 Fire IIs. I had some wipes because I just got my 3rd stack of poison and was scrambling to eat some fruit when Mistress decided to go pop her adds.

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#12 Nov 18 2013 at 3:38 PM Rating: Default
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dustinfoley wrote:

i though blm were better at ae and it would be fine, but nope, 10+ tries will all DL geared and relic people and no go.


BLM AoE I'm sure is the best in game, but only if you know how to do it properly. If all your BLM does is cast Blizzard II over and over then ya its pretty much FAIL. I've run WP in an AoE party multiple times and having 2 BLM is by far the best, a BRD or two works decently well also.

What I do is this.

Fire III, sets up Astral Fire III and gives the tank a few seconds to build some emnity, they will need it
Swiftcast
Flare
Transpose
Blizzard II x2, puts you in Umbral Ice III for the reduced cast time on Fire spells
Fire III, again for the Astral Fire III buff
Flare, cast it as soon as Fire III is done casting, if you are quick you can cast Flare with the reduced cast time due to the Fire III's travel time
repeat..

You could toss a Convert right after a Flare for a double Flare but more often than not I end up with a mob or two on me so I prefer not to risk the HP drain.

specifically on the slime boss, just use a swiftcast>flare>transpose>blizzard II if you want to AoE them down, swiftcast should be back up by the next add set.

-b
#13 Nov 19 2013 at 7:42 AM Rating: Good
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Love me some Flare.

Fire III > Raging Strikes > Flare > Convert > Swiftcast > Flare > Transpose > Blizzard III (only to kill time for Transpose) > Fire III > Flare (you might be able to hook the shorter cast time if you do it fast enough).

Coincidentally this is also the rotation for monster assisted suicide. Might want to drop Quelling Strikes at the front of that if you do this early.

If you're on the last pack before the last boss in WP and you're pulling from the flan door to the boss door if you open with your caster LB and then quelling into the rotation above you can call it a day.

You can do that kind of rotation maybe twice in the dungeon, three times if you're lucky given that it only takes about 10-14 minutes. The 8.5 minute youtube run is a bit of an oddity.

Good times.
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#14 Nov 19 2013 at 8:34 AM Rating: Good
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Furiousnixon wrote:

Fire III > Raging Strikes > Flare > Convert > Swiftcast > Flare > Transpose > Blizzard III (only to kill time for Transpose) > Fire III > Flare (you might be able to hook the shorter cast time if you do it fast enough).

Coincidentally this is also the rotation for monster assisted suicide. Might want to drop Quelling Strikes at the front of that if you do this early.

If you're on the last pack before the last boss in WP and you're pulling from the flan door to the boss door if you open with your caster LB and then quelling into the rotation above you can call it a day.
Good times.


Usually at that spot, I use Fire III on a non-tonberry, then LB, then move into the center of the group, manawall/manaward, raging strikes, then swiftcast > Flare > Convert, Blizzard III, then Blizzard II spam out. Takes a bit more time, but you dont pull hate out of the group (more controlled), and you are protected from death.

While I guarantee you are doing a lot of damage with the multi flares, the wait after the transpose is gonna be where everything bum rushes you and pulls from the pack.
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