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#1 Nov 19 2013 at 3:29 PM Rating: Excellent
I started leveling Carpenter at launch and didn't have a very good time with it. After lvl 15 or so I was making very slow progress and not HQ'ing anything. I gave it up for a while to work on DRG and figured I might not come back to it until a few patches later. Then I decided this past weekend to get all crafts up to at least lvl 15 for their cross-class abilities, even taking Culinarian to lvl 37 for Steady Hands 2.

My god, it's made a huge difference. After getting to lvl 35 on Carpenter and equipping Steady Hands 2, Manipulation, Tricks of the Trade, Waste Not and Careful Synthesis, I HQ leve'd my way to 50 in no time. Now I am working on Leatherworker and should have it to 50 by the end of the week. Much improve. Such success. Wow.

My question for the crafters on the forum is:

What rotation do you use for 40-durability items and 70/80-durability items?

Personally, I was using a combo that got HQ's, but was a little hit or miss and more complicated than it needed to be. I would Inner Quiet >> Steady Hands 2 >> Waste Not >> progress until only a Careful Synthesis was needed >> Hasty Touch >> Manipulation >> Steady Hands 2 >> Hasty Touches >> repeat until 34% >> Great Strides >> Standard Touch >> Careful Synthesis >> HQ. I would use Tricks of the Trade when good conditions popped and Basic Touch when excellent condition popped. The problem I ran into was running out of CP when I got a lot of Hasty Touch misses, since Manipulation is 88 CP. What I have done now is replace Manipulation with Waste Not and have added Byrgott's Blessing to the mix. Once I get 6 successful Hasty Tuches, I pop that and am at 100%.

Do you guys do anything different? I'm always looking for ways to min/max or simplify things. I have some friends who don't think Byrgott's is that useful, so what are your thoughts on that as well?
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#2 Nov 19 2013 at 3:45 PM Rating: Good
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You pretty much have this figured out... there's no 100% failsafe way to macro the 40 durability ones... just use those abilities in pretty much that order and you'll HQ a lot... not 100% but a lot, probably above 90% if I had to guess.

Typically the 40 durability rotations are for mats that you'll use in other crafting recipes. If you don't HQ them it's not as big of a deal, you can mix them in with some HQ ones and still get enough boost to HQ for yourself on the 70 and 80 synths.

I would use Waste Not more often to conserve CP, and just use Manipulation when you get to 15% or less (just be careful you don't use anything that decreases durability if you're at 10 or less or you'll break the synth), best case scenario on Manipulation is for Tricks of the Trade to pop right after (if you're lucky) if not, then pop SH2 (Rumination if you're desperate and lost track of CP)




Edited, Nov 20th 2013 8:27am by Hairspray
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#3 Nov 19 2013 at 3:45 PM Rating: Excellent
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IKickYoDog wrote:
I have some friends who don't think Byrgott's is that useful, so what are your thoughts on that as well?


I'll try to post a longer response when I have more time, but I had to chime in that Byregot's Blessing is so good that it's borderline broken.
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#4 Nov 19 2013 at 3:57 PM Rating: Good
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IKickYoDog wrote:
I have some friends who don't think Byrgott's is that useful, so what are your thoughts on that as well?


You're friends are probably not crafting hard synths then... Byregot's is probably the MOST important skill for the 100% rotations for 2-star recipes...

Here's a thread on that on Reddit


And here's another one
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#5 Nov 19 2013 at 3:59 PM Rating: Excellent
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So,

I'm going to kind of start at the end and work my way backward.

Byregot's is useful. Incredibly so. 800+ quality on normal, 1200+ on good, and I don't know what on excellent when used with Great Strides. 5 touches will make BB proc at 400% quality (100 base, + 5 touches at 20% each = 200, x2 from GS). Once I get Innovation in 5 more GSM levels, it's on lol.

For Leatherworking, you're going to be turning in a lot of skins, so the 40 dura rotation is definitely key. I levelled up everything at almost exactly the same time, so I've always had access to all the cross class skills. For 40 dura synths, here's what I do.

Comfort Zone (50 ALC)
Inner Quiet
SH II
Manipulation
Basic Touch x4
SH II
Basic Touch
Great Strides
Byregot's Blessing
Careful Synthesis II

If I'm feeling froggy, I whip up a HQ Fish Soup, and 2 of those basics can be Standar Touches. This will pop me to 85-100% every time on all NQ mats.

Now, since you don't have Comfort Zone or CS II...

IQ
SH II
WN
HT x4 ( You can use TotT to swap in basic touches here if they proc at the right time)
SH II
Basic or Standard Touch. (again depending on TotT)
Great Strides
Byregot's Blessing
15 CP Synth Move (can't remember the name)

Now... If that's not getting you results you can live with, you can do the all hasty all the time moves. I stopped doing it like this when I got BB just because it's so hit or miss. I did use it a lot up to that point. You will wind up making more because of Hasty Touch.

IQ
SH II
WN
Hasty X4
SH II
WN
Hasty X4
Manipulation
Rumination (You may need to reverse the order of this and Manipulation depending on CP starvation)
SH II
Basic/Standary (depending on TotT procs)
Careful Synth x2

Try all 3 methods, and try control food and CP food to see what you like best.

Happy crafting :)
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#6 Nov 19 2013 at 4:47 PM Rating: Excellent
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Inner Quiet (Tricks of the Trade if it pops afterward)

Waste Not > Careful Synthesis II until one CSII away from craft > then Hasty touch till Waste Not runs out. (Tricks of the Trade if it pops afterward)
Then Steady Hand II > Waste Not > Hasty Touch until Waste Not runs out (Tricks of the Trade if it pops afterward)
Then Steady Hand II > Waste Not > Hasty Touch until Waste Not runs out (Tricks of the Trade if it pops afterward)

I save my second to last step and 25CP for Byregots.
Then I Careful Synthesis II to close the synth.

Obviously you cant macro in Tricks of the Trade, so I do not use it for my macroed synths.


Edited, Nov 19th 2013 4:48pm by Valkayree
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#7 Nov 19 2013 at 5:54 PM Rating: Excellent
Alright, so it looks like I'm on the right track then Smiley: smile Good to know. LebargeX, I will try those sometime in the next couple days, thanks for the tips. As for Byrgott's, I'm lovin it like McDonald's. It actually saves me CP most of the time.
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#8 Nov 19 2013 at 7:04 PM Rating: Excellent
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I've been using a very similar method as everyone else has been in regards to using Hasty Touch to build up Inner Quiet + Byregot's Blessing, though with every craft at 50 I also tend to do a couple other things. This requires a CP of 326 to ensure you can use everything for it (full HQ gear at 50 should give you 315 CP). It can seem overkill, but this is also something I use for 1-star and 2-star recipes with no HQ materials, and I'd say it works 90% of the time barring real bad luck with the Hasty Touches.

Quote:
Opener:
Inner Quiet > Steady Hand II (CUL37) > Waste Not II (LTH50)

Middle:
Hasty Touch (CUL15) > Hasty Touch > Hasty Touch > Hasty Touch > Steady Hand II > Hasty Touch > Hasty Touch > Hasty Touch > Hasty Touch

Quality Bomb:
Ingenuity II (BSM50) > Innovation (GSM50) > Great Strides > Steady Hand I > Byregot's Blessing (CRP50)

Wrap-up:
Ingenuity II > Careful Synthesis II (WVR50) x2-3 times (depending on how many are needed to complete the synth; with all HQ gear and no Craftmanship materia it should never be more than 3)


Again, it can definitely come off as overkill, but it works for me, and it's about as good of a strategy as you are going to get when you've capped almost all, if not all, of your DoH classes.

Edited, Nov 19th 2013 8:09pm by Satisiun
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#9 Nov 20 2013 at 1:58 AM Rating: Excellent
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What materia does everyone use for crafting? I have a 50gsm with all hq gear. Can't decide which stats to put materia into.
#10 Nov 20 2013 at 2:47 AM Rating: Good
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Quote:
Quality Bomb: Ingenuity II (BSM50) > Innovation (GSM50) > Great Strides > Steady Hand I > Byregot's Blessing (CRP50)


Just as an FYI, there is absolutely no point in using Ingenuity II in this rotation. Ingenuity II affects progress, not quality. Use it at the end before dropping Careful Synth II to finish in as few steps as possible.
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#11 Nov 20 2013 at 5:21 AM Rating: Excellent
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Yay! I learned a thing or two thanks to you guys. I haven't been using waste not very much but now see its benefit. :3
#12 Nov 20 2013 at 6:15 AM Rating: Good
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squiress wrote:
What materia does everyone use for crafting? I have a 50gsm with all hq gear. Can't decide which stats to put materia into.


From the crrafting threads on the OF http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxiv/threads/99135-Crafter-Lv-55-Relic-Materia-Stat-Caps

Quote:
Seconday Tool
Craftsmanship +19
Control +??
CP +3

Head
Craftsmanship +4
Control +5
CP +0

Body
Craftsmanship +16
Control +5
CP +0

Legs
Craftsmanship +1
Control +5
CP +3

Hands
Craftsmanship +4
Control +5
CP +0

Feet
Craftsmanship +1
Control +5
CP +3

Wrist
Craftsmanship +4
Control +4
CP +6

Ring
Craftsmanship +4
Control +4
CP +3
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#13 Nov 20 2013 at 6:22 AM Rating: Good
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With enough 50s and decently melded HQ gear at 50, anything non-star can pretty much be HQed with the following:

Comfort Zone > Inner Quiet > Waste Not II > Steady Hands II > Basic Touch x 5 > Steady Hands II > Great Strides > Innovation > Byregot's Blessing > Careful Synthesis II the rest.

If the synth is low enough, sometimes you'll just HQ in the BT phase, others the Innovation isn't even needed. It's when you get into the harder stuff that you start using Hasty Touch instead and trying to ride out Tricks procs for more CP. Though, to be fair, even leveling crafts need to be in the 30s before you can really start making the most of the above with some adaptations, like using 2 HTs since your max CP isn't high enough, not having Inno because you lack cross-class slots, etc.. It's not foolproof then, but it's pretty much guaranteed you'll get past the 12-18% barrier non-cross-clased crafters face on challenging synths.
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#14 Nov 20 2013 at 7:03 AM Rating: Good
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SolomonGrundy wrote:
Quote:
Quality Bomb: Ingenuity II (BSM50) > Innovation (GSM50) > Great Strides > Steady Hand I > Byregot's Blessing (CRP50)


Just as an FYI, there is absolutely no point in using Ingenuity II in this rotation. Ingenuity II affects progress, not quality. Use it at the end before dropping Careful Synth II to finish in as few steps as possible.


Um. Then why did this happen when I tested it on a Hippogryph Leather?

Without Ingenuity II
General Log wrote:

You used Advanced Touch => Success!
=> Quality increases by 162.
=> Durability decreases by 10.


With Ingenuity II
General Log wrote:

You used Advanced Touch => Success!
=> Quality increases by 216.
=> Durability decreases by 10.


Worked with regular Ingenuity as well.

Edited, Nov 20th 2013 8:04am by Satisiun
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#15 Nov 20 2013 at 7:11 AM Rating: Decent
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How to HQ pretty much anything, without using the unpredictable Hasty Touch.

The 100% HQ, 0 RNG 2 Star Rotation:-
http://www.reddit.com/r/ffxiv/comments/1p8t6q/the_100_hq_0_rng_2_star_rotation/

Alternative for those who want to see some alternative/more detailed tables; but uses a lot Hasty Touch, okay for those who don't have 50's for above method, or are struggling to meld to reach the 100% guide.

The Journey to HQing Anything. (guide):-
http://www.reddit.com/r/ffxiv/comments/1no9mn/the_journey_to_hqing_anything_guide/
#16 Nov 20 2013 at 7:13 AM Rating: Good
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Satisiun wrote:
SolomonGrundy wrote:
Quote:
Quality Bomb: Ingenuity II (BSM50) > Innovation (GSM50) > Great Strides > Steady Hand I > Byregot's Blessing (CRP50)


Just as an FYI, there is absolutely no point in using Ingenuity II in this rotation. Ingenuity II affects progress, not quality. Use it at the end before dropping Careful Synth II to finish in as few steps as possible.


Um. Then why did this happen when I tested it on a Hippogryph Leather?

Without Ingenuity II
General Log wrote:

You used Advanced Touch => Success!
=> Quality increases by 162.
=> Durability decreases by 10.


With Ingenuity II
General Log wrote:

You used Advanced Touch => Success!
=> Quality increases by 216.
=> Durability decreases by 10.


Worked with regular Ingenuity as well.

Edited, Nov 20th 2013 8:04am by Satisiun


You get a bonus to quality from Ingenuity down to your level. There's a post I read that it's 5% per level. But, once you go below your level, it doesn't do any more benefit. So, you could use Ingenuity I instead of II.
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#17 Nov 20 2013 at 7:18 AM Rating: Good
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LebargeX wrote:
You get a bonus to quality from Ingenuity down to your level. There's a post I read that it's 5% per level. But, once you go below your level, it doesn't do any more benefit. So, you could use Ingenuity I instead of II.


Yeah, swapping Ingenuity I for II during the quality phase would work just fine, and I'm glad I tested it just now since now I know that too. When I'm making militia gear later for a materia run I'll see if Ingenuity II is still needed for the durability/progress phase as well, or if Ingenuity I will let it inch by the progress requirement in the same amount of turns.

I should add, my method of doing it may not be the "100% HQ all day erry day" sort of stuff like some of the Reddit-linked rotations are, but it's meant to be more focused on those who are on a budget. Not everyone has the disposable income to throw at materia, much less for several different crafting classes since cross-gear wearing stops being a thing at the craft end-game (accessories excluded).

Edited, Nov 20th 2013 8:21am by Satisiun
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#18 Nov 20 2013 at 7:21 AM Rating: Decent
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Also, further to my above post, some cheaper gear which can be shared across all Crafting classes.
Good luck with the overmelds on this gear, for those wanting to attempt such a feat.

Patrician's Crafting Gear for 100% HQ Requirements:-
http://www.reddit.com/r/ffxiv/comments/1qjiyh/patricians_crafting_gear_for_100_hq_requirements/

#19 Nov 20 2013 at 7:38 AM Rating: Good
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Valkayree wrote:
(Tricks of the Trade if it pops afterward)


I've actually found out recently that whether you're using Manipulation or Waste Not, it's best to always use ToT when it pops.

- If you're using Manipulation it will just add another 10 durability to the synth, so you didn't lose anything by taking the extra 20 CP.

- If you're using Waste Not, you only lose 5 durability and at the end when you're still left with 5, (which is just as good as 10, it gets you one more move), so again you didn't really lose anything.

I know I was the one who advocated this save tricks only for the times in-between, but I have been pretty active in crafting threads over on Reddit and have picked up a few things since I posted that advice here a few weeks ago.

The extra CP is actually more valuable to you than 1 tick of Manipulation or Waste Not, even when combined with SH2.



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#20 Nov 20 2013 at 8:10 AM Rating: Excellent
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Satisiun wrote:


I should add, my method of doing it may not be the "100% HQ all day erry day" sort of stuff like some of the Reddit-linked rotations are, but it's meant to be more focused on those who are on a budget. Not everyone has the disposable income to throw at materia, much less for several different crafting classes since cross-gear wearing stops being a thing at the craft end-game (accessories excluded).

Edited, Nov 20th 2013 8:21am by Satisiun


You can indeed cross-share Level 50 Crafting gear, negating the need to both craft/buy per-craft gear at 50, negating the need to heavily meld multiple per-craft gear, and also, this shared gear can also be used in 100% HQ rotations, 2-Star inclusive.

1-Star 40-Dura is always unpredictable, but once you realise that 2-Star HQ is 100% possible with NQ materials, you won't even bother to HQ the 1-Star 40-Dura synths, or at the very least it is no longer a must-have.

Patrician's Crafting Gear for 100% HQ Requirements:-
http://www.reddit.com/r/ffxiv/comments/1qjiyh/patricians_crafting_gear_for_100_hq_requirements/
#21 Nov 20 2013 at 9:00 AM Rating: Good
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Keltiq wrote:
Satisiun wrote:


I should add, my method of doing it may not be the "100% HQ all day erry day" sort of stuff like some of the Reddit-linked rotations are, but it's meant to be more focused on those who are on a budget. Not everyone has the disposable income to throw at materia, much less for several different crafting classes since cross-gear wearing stops being a thing at the craft end-game (accessories excluded).

Edited, Nov 20th 2013 8:21am by Satisiun


You can indeed cross-share Level 50 Crafting gear, negating the need to both craft/buy per-craft gear at 50, negating the need to heavily meld multiple per-craft gear, and also, this shared gear can also be used in 100% HQ rotations, 2-Star inclusive.

1-Star 40-Dura is always unpredictable, but once you realise that 2-Star HQ is 100% possible with NQ materials, you won't even bother to HQ the 1-Star 40-Dura synths, or at the very least it is no longer a must-have.

Patrician's Crafting Gear for 100% HQ Requirements:-
http://www.reddit.com/r/ffxiv/comments/1qjiyh/patricians_crafting_gear_for_100_hq_requirements/


I think they were talking about the job specific crafting gear not being sharable. This Patrician's thing is kinda new still :)

My plan is to SB Patrician's and jewelry over and over to build up a store of T3 materia and use that materia for melding class-spec stuff. Why? Because I think that the new crafting items for PvP, housing, and beyond may require more than what Patrician's can give.

And cuz of fancy fancy dress up time :P
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#22 Nov 20 2013 at 9:39 AM Rating: Decent
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LebargeX wrote:
Keltiq wrote:
Satisiun wrote:


I should add, my method of doing it may not be the "100% HQ all day erry day" sort of stuff like some of the Reddit-linked rotations are, but it's meant to be more focused on those who are on a budget. Not everyone has the disposable income to throw at materia, much less for several different crafting classes since cross-gear wearing stops being a thing at the craft end-game (accessories excluded).

Edited, Nov 20th 2013 8:21am by Satisiun


You can indeed cross-share Level 50 Crafting gear, negating the need to both craft/buy per-craft gear at 50, negating the need to heavily meld multiple per-craft gear, and also, this shared gear can also be used in 100% HQ rotations, 2-Star inclusive.

1-Star 40-Dura is always unpredictable, but once you realise that 2-Star HQ is 100% possible with NQ materials, you won't even bother to HQ the 1-Star 40-Dura synths, or at the very least it is no longer a must-have.

Patrician's Crafting Gear for 100% HQ Requirements:-
http://www.reddit.com/r/ffxiv/comments/1qjiyh/patricians_crafting_gear_for_100_hq_requirements/


I think they were talking about the job specific crafting gear not being sharable. This Patrician's thing is kinda new still :)

My plan is to SB Patrician's and jewelry over and over to build up a store of T3 materia and use that materia for melding class-spec stuff. Why? Because I think that the new crafting items for PvP, housing, and beyond may require more than what Patrician's can give.

And cuz of fancy fancy dress up time :P


Way to miss the point, and I knew exactly what they meant. Unless you intentionally do not wish for this board to know what is actually going on out there, by incorrectly stating that shareable lvl 50 craft gear, in all slots, does actually allow 100% HQ 2-Star synths, and you also do not need to use the lousy and unpredictable Hasty Touch.

Point being, apart from the Blue @ 50 Quest/Achievement-only craft Primary hand rewards, you don't need multiple Craft-Specific gear.

Patrician gear is neither new, nor unpredictable, the maths has been done, and you can use this gear on all 50 crafts, share it, to have a single set of gear, together with shared accessories, in order to 100% HQ 2-Stars. Guaranteed. The maths has been done, and people are actually doing this, day-in, day-out.

Bad news is, this is probably not good for the Market Boards/AH. But rather people knew than get shafted by RMT sales, who are absolutely using this method.


#23 Nov 20 2013 at 9:50 AM Rating: Good
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Keltiq wrote:
LebargeX wrote:
I think they were talking about the job specific crafting gear not being sharable. This Patrician's thing is kinda new still :)

My plan is to SB Patrician's and jewelry over and over to build up a store of T3 materia and use that materia for melding class-spec stuff. Why? Because I think that the new crafting items for PvP, housing, and beyond may require more than what Patrician's can give.

And cuz of fancy fancy dress up time :P

Way to miss the point...

That tone was completely unnecessary. We need less of that around here.
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#24 Nov 20 2013 at 10:14 AM Rating: Default
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svlyons wrote:
Keltiq wrote:
LebargeX wrote:
I think they were talking about the job specific crafting gear not being sharable. This Patrician's thing is kinda new still :)

My plan is to SB Patrician's and jewelry over and over to build up a store of T3 materia and use that materia for melding class-spec stuff. Why? Because I think that the new crafting items for PvP, housing, and beyond may require more than what Patrician's can give.

And cuz of fancy fancy dress up time :P

Way to miss the point...

That tone was completely unnecessary. We need less of that around here.


Apologies to the delicate princess, and anybody else I offended by my obvious evil tone and bad taste. /sarcasm

To the rest who haven't posted, or the anon readers, and also for everyone else who actually understood the implications but haven't come across what I posted previously - Enjoy your guaranteed 100% HQ 2-Star synths.

/bye for now.
#25 Nov 20 2013 at 10:29 AM Rating: Excellent
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svlyons wrote:
That tone was completely unnecessary. We need less of that around here.


That's exactly why I come to Zam every day, If I wanted that tone I would just go to he main forums.
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#26 Nov 20 2013 at 10:41 AM Rating: Decent
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Keltiq wrote:
svlyons wrote:
Keltiq wrote:
LebargeX wrote:
I think they were talking about the job specific crafting gear not being sharable. This Patrician's thing is kinda new still :)

My plan is to SB Patrician's and jewelry over and over to build up a store of T3 materia and use that materia for melding class-spec stuff. Why? Because I think that the new crafting items for PvP, housing, and beyond may require more than what Patrician's can give.

And cuz of fancy fancy dress up time :P

Way to miss the point...

That tone was completely unnecessary. We need less of that around here.


Apologies to the delicate princess, and anybody else I offended by my obvious evil tone and bad taste. /sarcasm

To the rest who haven't posted, or the anon readers, and also for everyone else who actually understood the implications but haven't come across what I posted previously - Enjoy your guaranteed 100% HQ 2-Star synths.

/bye for now.


Kilua...Poubelle.... Are you back???

Way to be a complete douche nozzle btw. So, the patrician's thing is new to me, douche. Also, douche, not everything ever available in the game is out. So, planning for the future is all I was stating I wanted to do, douche.

Also, douche, if you could totally blow up at this response and make a totally inappropriate one again, that'd be great!

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#27 Nov 20 2013 at 12:15 PM Rating: Default
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LebargeX wrote:


Kilua...Poubelle.... Are you back???

Way to be a complete douche nozzle btw. So, the patrician's thing is new to me, douche. Also, douche, not everything ever available in the game is out. So, planning for the future is all I was stating I wanted to do, douche.

Also, douche, if you could totally blow up at this response and make a totally inappropriate one again, that'd be great!



Good to confirm you're as big a Drama Queen in the forum as you are in-game.

And yes, in case you can't work it out, due to hormonal imbalances which are clouding your thought processes, we have indeed met in-game. Quite a few times.

And no, I am not those internet entities you quote above. They are positively charming entities, from what the search returned, compared to some of the real big-*** douche nozzles out there.

However, I am indeed glad ya learnt sumthing. And from a douche nozzle to boot. It must kill you to realise that, and live with such knowledge, for the rest of your XIV career.

I am indeed a douche nozzle. Just another anonymous internet entity, just like everyone else, whose real feelings are neither relevant, important, nor probably any more valid than your fake disgust at all my previous douch nozzle postings. Nobody cares about your virtual feelings, you only exist as pixels, which were transported to my pixel screen from the grey matter between your ears (assuming you have said grey matter).

And on that note, I guess it's a little late to end with /sarcasm, smilie faces, or indeed chocolates.

However, cya in-game, princess pixels with the virtual feelings.


#28 Nov 20 2013 at 12:28 PM Rating: Excellent
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2,232 posts
I didn't learn anything from you.

A swift reminder of where to find the ignore button was handy though :)
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#29 Nov 21 2013 at 9:58 AM Rating: Good
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Hairspray wrote:
Valkayree wrote:
(Tricks of the Trade if it pops afterward)


The extra CP is actually more valuable to you than 1 tick of Manipulation or Waste Not, even when combined with SH2.



I agree somewhat. Waste Not + Steady Hand II takes nearly 75CP, so assuming you steady hand II then waste not you have a 4 turn investment of a little less than 20 CP per turn. Basically you get your money back, which can be useful. I play it by ear usually. If I have hit every hasty touch and am near 100% and dont need byregots, or can skip a hasty touch turn or two and go straight into byregots to hit 100%, i may skip Tricks of the Trade if it pops. Sometimes if I am at 75% and a tricks of the trade pops, I might skip it and hasty touch while on "Good" to push that quality to 100 right there. But if I have been failing the hasty touch and know I will need byregots or perhaps one more waste not cycle, I will use tricks of the trade whenever I can.

The CP return when using trick of the trade when only waste not is used is much higher, but it seems a waste to use waste not (no pun intended) without a prior steady hand II, since 80%^4 is a 41% shot of hitting all four hasty touch with steady hand II, while 50%^4 leaves only a 6.25% shot of hitting all four hasty touch without steady hand II. Using waste not without steady hand II is risky.
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#30 Nov 21 2013 at 10:39 AM Rating: Good
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1,208 posts
Valkayree wrote:
Hairspray wrote:
Valkayree wrote:
(Tricks of the Trade if it pops afterward)


The extra CP is actually more valuable to you than 1 tick of Manipulation or Waste Not, even when combined with SH2.



I agree somewhat. Waste Not + Steady Hand II takes nearly 75CP, so assuming you steady hand II then waste not you have a 4 turn investment of a little less than 20 CP per turn. Basically you get your money back, which can be useful. I play it by ear usually. If I have hit every hasty touch and am near 100% and dont need byregots, or can skip a hasty touch turn or two and go straight into byregots to hit 100%, i may skip Tricks of the Trade if it pops. Sometimes if I am at 75% and a tricks of the trade pops, I might skip it and hasty touch while on "Good" to push that quality to 100 right there. But if I have been failing the hasty touch and know I will need byregots or perhaps one more waste not cycle, I will use tricks of the trade whenever I can.

The CP return when using trick of the trade when only waste not is used is much higher, but it seems a waste to use waste not (no pun intended) without a prior steady hand II, since 80%^4 is a 41% shot of hitting all four hasty touch with steady hand II, while 50%^4 leaves only a 6.25% shot of hitting all four hasty touch without steady hand II. Using waste not without steady hand II is risky.


You're probably right, your way is probably more CP-efficient over time, but tbh my brain hurts trying to understand it, so my super-duper-easy no-fail way to remember it is to always hit Tricks of the Trade when it pops Smiley: grin
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#31 Nov 21 2013 at 2:43 PM Rating: Good
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Hairspray wrote:
Valkayree wrote:
Hairspray wrote:
Valkayree wrote:
(Tricks of the Trade if it pops afterward)


The extra CP is actually more valuable to you than 1 tick of Manipulation or Waste Not, even when combined with SH2.



I agree somewhat. Waste Not + Steady Hand II takes nearly 75CP, so assuming you steady hand II then waste not you have a 4 turn investment of a little less than 20 CP per turn. Basically you get your money back, which can be useful. I play it by ear usually. If I have hit every hasty touch and am near 100% and dont need byregots, or can skip a hasty touch turn or two and go straight into byregots to hit 100%, i may skip Tricks of the Trade if it pops. Sometimes if I am at 75% and a tricks of the trade pops, I might skip it and hasty touch while on "Good" to push that quality to 100 right there. But if I have been failing the hasty touch and know I will need byregots or perhaps one more waste not cycle, I will use tricks of the trade whenever I can.

The CP return when using trick of the trade when only waste not is used is much higher, but it seems a waste to use waste not (no pun intended) without a prior steady hand II, since 80%^4 is a 41% shot of hitting all four hasty touch with steady hand II, while 50%^4 leaves only a 6.25% shot of hitting all four hasty touch without steady hand II. Using waste not without steady hand II is risky.


You're probably right, your way is probably more CP-efficient over time, but tbh my brain hurts trying to understand it, so my super-duper-easy no-fail way to remember it is to always hit Tricks of the Trade when it pops Smiley: grin


I think the main point is that if you arent using steady hand II, then Trick away!
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#32 Nov 21 2013 at 3:19 PM Rating: Excellent
I typically Try to use TotT after Steady Hands 2 wears off, but there are some situations where I'll hit it. If it pops between SH2 and Waste Not, I'll hit it, because it usually takes at least 2 synths to progress a recipe to 100%. I can just Hasty Touch my way through until I have no SH2 and 1 tick of Waste Not, then progress the synth at 90% chance to succeed.
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#33 Nov 22 2013 at 4:22 PM Rating: Good
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IKickYoDog wrote:
I typically Try to use TotT after Steady Hands 2 wears off, but there are some situations where I'll hit it. If it pops between SH2 and Waste Not, I'll hit it, because it usually takes at least 2 synths to progress a recipe to 100%. I can just Hasty Touch my way through until I have no SH2 and 1 tick of Waste Not, then progress the synth at 90% chance to succeed.


I use a similar tactic. I concur.
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#34 Nov 22 2013 at 5:37 PM Rating: Excellent
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I'm currently start the **** road of diremites. Rather than Quick Synth them and risk blowing them up, I made a guaranteed NQ rotation so I could plow through them by hand (and also get almost 2K exp a pop:

/ac "Careful Synthesis" <me>
/wait 3
/ac "Careful Synthesis" <me>
/wait 3
/ac "Steady Hand" <me>
/wait 3
/ac "Standard Touch" <me>
/wait 3
/ac "Master's Mend" <me>
/wait 3
/ac "Standard Touch" <me>
/wait 3
/ac "Standard Touch" <me>
/wait 3
/ac "Careful Synthesis" <me>
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#35 Nov 22 2013 at 5:42 PM Rating: Good
Catwho wrote:
I'm currently start the **** road of diremites. Rather than Quick Synth them and risk blowing them up, I made a guaranteed NQ rotation so I could plow through them by hand (and also get almost 2K exp a pop:

/ac "Careful Synthesis" <me>
/wait 3
/ac "Careful Synthesis" <me>
/wait 3
/ac "Steady Hand" <me>
/wait 3
/ac "Standard Touch" <me>
/wait 3
/ac "Master's Mend" <me>
/wait 3
/ac "Standard Touch" <me>
/wait 3
/ac "Standard Touch" <me>
/wait 3
/ac "Careful Synthesis" <me>


Ya for anything 40 durability below my level, I use the following Macro:

/ac "Steady Hands II" <me>
/wait 3
/ac "Waste Not" <me>
/wait 3
/ac "Standard Touch" <me>
/wait 3
/ac "Standard Touch" <me>
/wait 3
/ac "Advanced Touch" <me>
/wait 3
/ac "Basic Synthesis" <me>

This usually gets me to 20% - 35% quality and it's all in one macro, so I can read the interwebs for 30 seconds
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Rafoot - Asura (Formerly of Lakshmi (Garuda)) - THF SAM BRD
#36 Nov 28 2013 at 3:15 PM Rating: Decent
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161 posts
Hey Guys,

So I’m confused about crafting rotations…I’m currently a lvl 49 Carpenter and have everything else to 15

What would be a basic rotation for durability 40? And 80? Using skills that I have?
Currently I do

Steady Hand -> Inner quiet -> Great strides -> Standard Touch – Standard Touch – Standard Touch -> The move that gives back CP -> Standard Touch -> Basic -> Basic – Basic if needed

I feel like this is bad
#37 Nov 28 2013 at 5:32 PM Rating: Good
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There's no right way while you're still picking up abilities, honestly. Until you're deeper into cross-class stuff, pushing past 15-18% without some Excellents is probably gonna be tricky. I'd bump IQ before your SH there, and overall try to keep SH for your non-100% actions. But since you're 15 all around with CRP soon 50, I'd probably do the following:

IQ (40) > SH (40) > Waste Not (40) > BT (35) > BT (30) > BT (25) > BT (20) > SH (20) > GS (20) > BB (10) > CS (0)

If you still have the CP, use another WN before the GS and perhaps another Touch if you can. The above is for 40 durability synths where you know Careful Synthesis will complete the craft.

Edited, Nov 28th 2013 6:33pm by Seriha
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