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Time for me to leave FFXIVFollow

#1 Dec 03 2013 at 2:17 PM Rating: Good
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Hi everyone! Well...I took a week off because of burnout in the game, and now I've decided to go on to a different game. I had a lot of fun at first in FFXIV, but for me, it began to feel too much like work. I really got tired of running the same dungeons over and over for Tomes. I'm not really that great at video games to begin with, although I've played them for years. The other problem I had with this game was that for an average player, endgame was just way too hard for me as a healer. I never made it past Titan HM even after about a month of trying it maybe 6-8 times a week in PUGS. Invariably someone would mess up and the party would disband. I decided that this just wasn't for me. I don't like games where if one person makes a mistake in a group of eight, it's basically a wipe. The thing that most turned me off about the game though was the plethora of elitist players I met in PUGS. Okay...I get it....you're really good at MMO's in general. You have the fast twitch reflexes of a Pro tennis player. You know exactly what every job should be doing at every second of every dungeon, and you've been that way in the last 5 MMO's you played. Kudos to you that are blessed with such great video gaming skills through tons of practice and hours of studying youtube videos. I'm kind of in awe of such players until they open their mouths and berate some noob for missing a stun on his first time at a particular dungeon. I work 50 hours a week, have a family, and just don't have the time to practice like that. I was a long time member of FFXI and no matter what Linkshell I seemed to join, there was a camaraderie and usually 2 or 3 guys shouting out what to do to first timers in Dynamis or SKY and it was fun as ****. I joined 5 linkshells in FFXIV in 2 months and basically none of them had any kind of cohesiveness to learn together, despite several of them having over 100 members. The skilled members only wanted to do Coil and the rest were stuck on Titan, crafting 24/7, or leveling alts. I don't know...it just lost the fun factor for me. I mean running WP ten times a week really gets old so you can get halfway to a decent piece of gear. I had 4100HP/4500MP as a WHM when I quit and I really didn't feel much different than when I was 3700/3900, despite having multiple pieces of 90 gear. I know some of you love this game and that's great. Hopefully, it can endure and make it worth your time. As for me, I'll keep trying each new MMO that comes out until I find the right fit. Best of luck to all of you! Gypsy Healer.
#2 Dec 03 2013 at 2:30 PM Rating: Decent
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Good luck.

There are a lot of jerks on this game for whatever reason. I'm not sure if they come from WoW, LoL, or some other community, but many on ARR thinks it's "cool and badass" to berate someone for making a mistake.

They're not necessarily better than you at MMORPGs, by the way. It's just that ARR draws most of its influence from WoW, so in a sense people have basically been playing this game for a decade. I don't mean to say that ARR is a clone, but if you're experienced in certain other MMORPGs, you'll pretty much know exactly how to handle everything in ARR including a lot of boss fight mechanics which can be seen in other MMORPG bosses.

(I'm also taking a break due to the reasons that you mentioned... and the current available content got boring)

Edited, Dec 3rd 2013 3:32pm by LucasNox
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#3 Dec 03 2013 at 2:39 PM Rating: Excellent
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You will run into a lot of douchebags in the general population of any MMO (and in life). The best thing to do is find a solid Guild/FC with a cool group of players that'll help you out. As for the constant wipes, odds are you aren't the sole person responsible for that. The game is fairly new and there are a lot of people still learning the ropes.
#4 Dec 03 2013 at 2:49 PM Rating: Decent
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Basically, OP is like, "Yeah I know that 2.1 comes out in 14 days and will solve my endless WP running boredom problems, lower the difficulty on HM Titan, give you more options for gathering tomes, give you a ton of new stuff to do, and build comraderie in FCs by giving them a house by which to gather, discuss, craft, and strategize. But eh, I'm gonna go. Later."

Using just your second post on this website to say that you are leaving when we really never knew you to begin with kinda screams troll flame. Why fabricate some negative hype over your dissatisfaction when it is obvious that you haven't created any positive hype around your good experiences? Listen, you've got a patch coming out in two weeks that will address most if not all of your posted issues. And if your FC ain't talking and no one is helping, find a new FC. There are nice people out there.

If you cant get pumped and prepare for the upcoming coolness, then maybe the game was never for you.

Edited, Dec 4th 2013 11:28am by Valkayree
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#5 Dec 03 2013 at 2:51 PM Rating: Good
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Good luck Holmes. I did make it through the wall of text and get where you are coming from. I've been playing since early-access and still don't have a character at 50 (bearing that I started 4 different characters on two different servers). I think what you are touching on is the gaming community's insatiable need to complete content ASAP. I for one am attempting to not adhere to this trend.

SIDE NOTE: Additionally, RL circumstances and and a certain AAA franchise game might have been released as well…Contributing to me 'falling behind'. That being said, I have a great FC and I know that these Mates will help me when necessary when I get to the appropriate content.

The game is still so young and we will have tons of time, and various avenues, to reach the 'end-game' rewards which we all wish to acquire. So ya boss, take a break, but, don't let it totally turn you off. Let the community, economy, and game evolve as 'we' all expect it will. I still think it will be a great MMO experience for years to come so perhaps don't let the 'baby phase' of the game prevent you from coming back one day.

Good luck with further adventures!!!

PS. "Can I Have Your Stuff???" (JK JK JK)
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#6 Dec 03 2013 at 3:04 PM Rating: Decent
deniswriter wrote:
The other problem I had with this game was that for an average player, endgame was just way too hard for me as a healer. I never made it past Titan HM even after about a month of trying it maybe 6-8 times a week in PUGS.
STOP DOING PUGS


I was a long time member of FFXI and no matter what Linkshell I seemed to join, there was a camaraderie and usually 2 or 3 guys shouting out what to do to first timers in Dynamis or SKY and it was fun as ****. I joined 5 linkshells in FFXIV in 2 months and basically none of them had any kind of cohesiveness to learn together, despite several of them having over 100 members.
Do you know that a Linkshell is only a small chatroom?? Why didn't you join a Free Company with a dedicated core group of players, and use the LS system for small numbers of close friends? As I beleive it was intended that way (FC is a Guild ... LS is a glorifited buddy chat)

As for me, I'll keep trying each new MMO that comes out until I find the right fit. Best of luck to all of you! Gypsy Healer.
Sorry, but maybe that's for the best..
If you are the type of person to jump MMO's frequently, and bail out when one becomes too much of a grind, then yeah.



Edited, Dec 3rd 2013 3:04pm by Dyadem
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#7 Dec 03 2013 at 3:40 PM Rating: Decent
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Perhaps it is just because I'm over tired but I found this as one big whine over not being good at the game and really just not liking MMO's. I mean you complain about difficult content and having redo events over and over for rewards...well welcome to MMO's...is this not true of them all? If we just give you the stuff without any work the game would end and then what is left?

Seriously I'm not trying to be a jerk but you strike me as someone who would be better suited to playing offline games, there if you ***** up nobody knows but your cat. You imply that you arent;y willing to do things like watch youtubes or practice dungeons to be better at them but you expect everyone to still cuddle you through the content. Sorry that isn't how life works. Get used to it. You said you work 50 hours a week and have a family...while that's great perhaps you should take the inititive and try to creat a LS on your server of similiar people? Then instead of crybotting all over the internet you could dungeon with people who are in similiar positions to you...seriously you have a family so you know nothing worthwhile comes easy so why do you expect FFXIV to be different? Like I said earlier maybe you get more rewarding time in say Skyrim or Dragon Age where you can still explore and craft but alone.

Also you have been in 5 LS's in 2 months...no wonder its hard for you to establish a base of people...it takes time to get to know people especially online...did you expect to join a LS and have 12 new besties right away? Again another example of you not willing to work at it...I've been in the same FC and LS since launch and slowly over time I'm becoming closer to the peeps in there...but it takes time.

As for Coil goes...I'm in the same boat my FC is small and generally only a handful of people get to Coil and I'm left out weekly because I'm a drg main and they take a Monk regularly (my work shift conflicts with the time) ...I dont come on here crying about it. I'm trying to organize another static in my LS/FC...which is hard since mine has 30 people total. Should be easy in a 100 man one. BUT if you haven't beaten Titan you have no reason to worry about Coil you aren't ready or eligible to join anyway.

Again like I said perhaps I'm just bitter today cause of no sleep (new puppy life over) but why do people post rant quits on here...simple fact is nobody cares that your quitting truthfully. It probably took 10-15 mins to write that wall of text when you could have used that time to watch a titan HM guide video and perhaps beat that content...oh sorry I forgot you don't want to put effort in.


#8 Dec 03 2013 at 3:54 PM Rating: Good
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Good luck, if you do decide to come back (Happens a lot more then you'd think in MMO's) make sure you get into a Free Company that is doing end-game content so you can get past things like Titan a lot easier and not feel so burnt-out. Also, after about 10 years of MMO playing the best piece of advice I can give is to find a game/life balance. Don't play 24/7, first of all it will cost you a lot of relationships IRL, and possibly your job, learn to take it easier and you'll probably enjoy it longer.
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#9 Dec 03 2013 at 4:15 PM Rating: Decent
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LucasNox wrote:
Good luck.

There are a lot of jerks on this game for whatever reason. I'm not sure if they come from WoW, LoL, or some other community, but many on ARR thinks it's "cool and badass" to berate someone for making a mistake.

They're not necessarily better than you at MMORPGs, by the way. It's just that ARR draws most of its influence from WoW, so in a sense people have basically been playing this game for a decade. I don't mean to say that ARR is a clone, but if you're experienced in certain other MMORPGs, you'll pretty much know exactly how to handle everything in ARR including a lot of boss fight mechanics which can be seen in other MMORPG bosses.

(I'm also taking a break due to the reasons that you mentioned... and the current available content got boring)

Edited, Dec 3rd 2013 3:32pm by LucasNox



There isn't some mystical reason that this game is filled with jerks... The reason is simple. You make a game that promotes short-term partying for 20 -50 minutes with absolutely no accountability for what you say, because you know you'll never see those players again... and what do you get? The animalistic tendencies of human nature i.e. name-calling etc.
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#10 Dec 03 2013 at 4:18 PM Rating: Decent
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Valkayree wrote:


Using just your second post on this website to say that you are leaving when we really never knew you to begin with kinda screams troll flame. Why fabricate some negative hype over your dissatisfaction when it is obvious that you haven't created any positive hype around your good experiences? Listen, you've got a patch coming out in two weeks that will address most if not all of your posted issues. And if your FC ain't talking and no one is helping, find a new FC. There are nice people out there.


Using your 1300th hundred post to accuse someone of "troll-flaming" because they voice a legitimate concern kinda screams dbag.

I also love how you categorize his dissatisfaction as a fabrication, as if you somehow know he is overstating his personal experience. It sort of makes me think you're the kind of player he is referencing.

Edited, Dec 3rd 2013 5:19pm by Parathyroid
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#11 Dec 03 2013 at 4:24 PM Rating: Decent
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Parathyroid wrote:
Valkayree wrote:


Using just your second post on this website to say that you are leaving when we really never knew you to begin with kinda screams troll flame. Why fabricate some negative hype over your dissatisfaction when it is obvious that you haven't created any positive hype around your good experiences? Listen, you've got a patch coming out in two weeks that will address most if not all of your posted issues. And if your FC ain't talking and no one is helping, find a new FC. There are nice people out there.


Using your 1300th hundred post to accuse someone of "troll-flaming" because they voice a legitimate concern kinda screams dbag.

I also love how you categorize his dissatisfaction as a fabrication, as if you somehow know he is overstating his personal experience. It sort of makes me think you're the kind of player he is referencing.

Edited, Dec 3rd 2013 5:19pm by Parathyroid



His major dissatisfaction seems to be that he wants the same level of reward for less work/skill as people who put in more effort. I do not see that as valid at all.

In no way am I saying people should berate anyone in DF but nobody forces someone to DF you can always make parties with people you know.

#12 Dec 03 2013 at 4:32 PM Rating: Good
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Not really. Looks like he's complaining about people acting like ***** because a player doesn't know the content to a T. It's stupid to be a **** to someone over a video game. Unless of course they were being a **** first, then **** away.

**** **** *****
#13 Dec 03 2013 at 4:36 PM Rating: Excellent
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I would say, unless your subscription is about up and you really don't have any hope for the game, you should take a break and come back for the Dec 17th patch to see if that fixes things for you. It introduces new things to do, like PvP, and softens the current gear grind so you can catch up.
#14 Dec 03 2013 at 4:41 PM Rating: Excellent
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A good way to get past HM Titan was join a shout group. They are more "try and try again" until they get it.

Edited, Dec 3rd 2013 5:45pm by FatChocobro
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#15 Dec 03 2013 at 5:13 PM Rating: Default
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Stop doing PUG, in my opinion these are terrible. Lots of people hounding your gears, and out of dozens of PUGS I have done maybe 3 made it past Titan HM. On the other hand, out of my 7 Relic 6 were done in DF, with the last one MNK relic I won Titan HM with basically 1 healer and 3 DPS after heart. You would be pretty amazed at the quality of DF against PUG.
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#16 Dec 03 2013 at 6:26 PM Rating: Good
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Ok, someone has to ask the question, so here it goes...


Can I have your stuff?


:)
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#17 Dec 03 2013 at 6:57 PM Rating: Excellent
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A part of me envies those who are burnt out on FFXIV already. I'm burned out on real life stuff right now and haven't even had a chance to log in a few weeks. Still stuck at 41. I"m hoping for a chance to attempt to burn myself out in XIV over the next few weeks, hopefully.

My fear is that I'll fall behind so far back that I'll burn myself out playing catch up.
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#18 Dec 04 2013 at 7:18 AM Rating: Excellent
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Parathyroid wrote:
Valkayree wrote:


Using just your second post on this website to say that you are leaving when we really never knew you to begin with kinda screams troll flame. Why fabricate some negative hype over your dissatisfaction when it is obvious that you haven't created any positive hype around your good experiences? Listen, you've got a patch coming out in two weeks that will address most if not all of your posted issues. And if your FC ain't talking and no one is helping, find a new FC. There are nice people out there.


Using your 1300th hundred post to accuse someone of "troll-flaming" because they voice a legitimate concern kinda screams dbag.

I also love how you categorize his dissatisfaction as a fabrication, as if you somehow know he is overstating his personal experience. It sort of makes me think you're the kind of player he is referencing.

Edited, Dec 3rd 2013 5:19pm by Parathyroid


As blunt as Valk was, his post is still legitimate.

We have a huge content patch coming up here in 2 weeks or so that will add more variety than just WP runs, housing options, PVP, job adjustments, solo quests and treasure hunting, an endgame dungeon that isn't as difficult as coil, upgrades to mythology cap, etc...

The OP simply ignores all this which really ****** me off, actually. The game is supposedly boring yet he hasn't experienced even a third of its content because he's stuck in PUG Titan runs that never work out for anyone? OK then...

He complains about these bad PUG Titan groups and all the elitist players found within. You know, I'm inclined to agree. This morning, I did DF Titan around 4-5 times, DF Garuda 2 times, etc.

[storytime]In one of those Titan runs I was on my BLM. We had wiped a few times but were still willing to continue. We start and I end up pulling threat accidentally (quelling wasn't up). PLD doesn't provoke. Neither WHM heals me. First thing I hear? Bunch of, "Wow what a sh*tty BLM; learn to watch your aggro." and so on and so forth. I just simply stated that quelling wasn't up and that raging over a mistake like that when they had made several themselves was petty.

Eventually they gave up because they were convinced that I was a bad BLM. So I left and queued as my SCH. Guess who I ended up with? The WHM who was bad mouthing me the entire time in the other run. But guess what happens this time? We actually down it making it my 2nd DF win. Guess who screwed up the most? The WHM. I solo healed it for the most part. I was humble and he was apologetic at least but really doesn't excuse his behavior.

Then I did a JP region group. Everyone in that group was extremely positive. One of the WHMs was pretty bad and would get landslided off many times. I told them that it was perhaps impossible due to the healer but the PLD told me, in Japanese, that you'd never gain experience unless you keep at it. I told him I understand and apologized for my rudeness. We kept trying but didn't really improve much. The PLD had to leave but before he did, he thanked us all (everyone said お疲れ様でしたor PTありがとう) and then encouraged the WHM to keep trying and not give up. I found this such a refreshing change from the normal Titan runs I'm in.
[/storytime]

Point is: DF is a really bad idea when it comes to Titan. Don't do it. Also, if you are looking for nicer players, I would highly recommend queuing in the JP region only.

Unfortunately, you picked the one role that is a little difficult to play on Titan. Shouldn't you embrace this and accept the challenge, becoming a better player in the end instead of giving up? After doing this for one month, you have probably picked up some useful bits of information and learned a lot more about your class.

Also, Parathyroid, I highly doubt Valk falls into the category the OP was referencing. He has posted multiple times on this forums, contributing to threads, adding to the collective knowledge of both crafters and black mages, and is generally highly regarded by many players on Ultros (from what I've gathered from posts). The OP has no such background because...this is his second post. If he/she was having issues like this, one would expect a post about it sooner asking for advice...yet I do not see such a thread.

Your response is just as petty.



OP: I wish you luck. I understand that this game isn't for everyone. Playing healer can be extremely frustrating.

I feel that if you had posted your concerns here and asked for help, the ZAM community would have been more than willing to offer up advice as we have done thus far and you wouldn't be as frustrated as you are now. You speak of great challenge but would you really feel rewarded for doing something that was easy? What would happen if you got your relic quest done and your relic weapon? Wouldn't you feel immense gratification because you accomplished this really difficult task instead of having it handed to you?

Maybe if healer was stressful, attempt to play another role as well. Look for FCs on your server forums on the official forums. Plenty of social/very helpful FCs out there: you just need to look a little.

Alas, we can no longer help you as you have already made your decision and can only wish you the best in whatever you decide to do in the future.

Edited, Dec 4th 2013 1:02pm by HitomeOfBismarck
#19 Dec 04 2013 at 9:28 AM Rating: Excellent
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To many people rush to the end, and for what reason? Personally this time around I've taken my time, i have 2 level 45s in DOW and DOM. But haven't hit 50 yet. Botany is at 50 cause I actually enjoyed it before the patch. Now I'm working on crafting, last night I finished getting all my classes to 15 for the first set of cross class skills. Normally I'd do what a lot of people have done, rush to end and then spend every moment running the same dungeons over and over to get the "temporary" best gear.

Ok so yea I'm playing through the story with my wife and having to find time for 2 of us with our work schedules and hunting season lately hasn't been easy, so thats why I'm not really 50, but I feel I've been enjoying the game more.

To OP, maybe just take a break. Come back for 2.1, thats still almost a 2 week break or try some of the other classes. Take some time to enjoy the other aspects of the game instead of just

Don't forget this:
"During your time here, you will be able to talk, join and adventure with many other individuals in an experience that is unique to online games. That being said, we have no desire to see your real life suffer as a consequence. Don't forget your family, your friends, your school, or your work."
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#20 Dec 04 2013 at 9:50 AM Rating: Good
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[quote=BrokenFox]Not really. Looks like he's complaining about people acting like ***** because a player doesn't know the content to a T. It's stupid to be a **** to someone over a video game. Unless of course they were being a **** first, then **** away.

**** **** *************

I agree.. I have run WP 10 times with almost no problems. Last night the party kept wiping on the second boss.. But I was blamed even thought the tank could not hold hate. I have healed with no issues at all in WP. What was different?. I knew right away the tank was going to be a issue.

That tank left and we got another and he had issues too and blamed the dps.. I have also ran with both of them before no issues. I think the biggest problems is lack of tanks and a bigger lack of good tanks. I think also too many people are carried through this game to end game. I dont care if someone is learning and not good, I dont leave on them. But everyone blames everyone else and leaves, they cant except they may be the problem. One wipe in WP and someone leaves. If a group cant run extremely fast through WP people leave. This is the games fault because everyone is sick of WP.

But I agree end game content is horrible. I am not enjoying it at all. I have loved the game up too this point. I have played FFXI for a very long time so I know tuff and grind... I hope the update fixes stuff but if it dont I might loose interest fast. I am having a hard time getting on anymore it does feel like work. I play games to be entertained, If I want to work I will go too work and get paid. ..

Problem is you cant always rely on your FC for the 50 times you need to run WP or AK.. I never seen a game that has so many jerks... There are allot of good people, i have had lots of good experiences too. Its the bad ones that stick with you.

This is the point a game makes it or breaks.. If 2.1 is no good the game subscribers will drop drastically. I think allot of it sounds good but we will see...
This game needs more than just dungeon runs.
I am happy to see more main story coming...

Edited, Dec 4th 2013 11:37am by Nashred
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#21 Dec 04 2013 at 11:23 AM Rating: Default
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Parathyroid wrote:
Valkayree wrote:


Using just your second post on this website to say that you are leaving when we really never knew you to begin with kinda screams troll flame. Why fabricate some negative hype over your dissatisfaction when it is obvious that you haven't created any positive hype around your good experiences? Listen, you've got a patch coming out in two weeks that will address most if not all of your posted issues. And if your FC ain't talking and no one is helping, find a new FC. There are nice people out there.


Using your 1300th hundred post to accuse someone of "troll-flaming" because they voice a legitimate concern kinda screams dbag.

I also love how you categorize his dissatisfaction as a fabrication, as if you somehow know he is overstating his personal experience. It sort of makes me think you're the kind of player he is referencing.

Edited, Dec 3rd 2013 5:19pm by Parathyroid


fab·ri·cate (fbr-kt)
tr.v.fab·ri·cat·ed, fab·ri·cat·ing, fab·ri·cates
1. To make; create.
2. To construct by combining or assembling diverse, typically standardized parts: fabricate small boats.
3. To concoct in order to deceive: fabricated an excuse.

I used the word in the context of #1, not #3. His experience is valid, I just don't want to hear about it. Come here posting negative crap on your second post, that's troll flame.

Regarding me and my player type, well... Last night I ran a garuda with a df pug to help a friend of a friend a barely knew, but seemed like a nice person. It was really bad and we wiped several times, but I popped some 2.5k food, stuck in there, and we made it through. So yeah, I'm a jerk Smiley: oyvey

Watch yourself now.
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#22 Dec 04 2013 at 11:30 AM Rating: Good
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Thanks for all your comments. I wasn't trying to troll, just kind of using this as a coda for the time I spent here. I did watch the Youtube videos by the way for Titan and actually I was better than many of the other WHMs...we just ended wiping because it seemed as if someone (including myself at times) would ***** up and the party would just disband. As for the post about whining in general and wanting content handed to me, that is not the case. I'm just stating that as an average player, I found the game too hard for me in Titan HM and got tired of doing it over and over again...I mean come on...I played FFXI for years doing SKY, SEA, etc. constantly and as you know if you played it, that content was hard as **** until they changed everything to make it easier. WP was a walk in the park for me even though I'm not that great, but since I could not seem to advance past titan, it got really old doing it 8-10 times a week along with AK. I mistakenly said LS when I meant FC. I was in several FC's but they were mostly quiet affairs where everyone did their own thing so I never actually made any friends like I did in FFXI. It just seems that in the other MMO's I played...Ultima Online, WOW, Rift, Aion, FFXI, the LS's, guilds, etc. were quite friendly...even if you had only been there a few days. The FC's I was in here were very nice when you joined, then no one ever spoke after that except to say hello when you logged on or discuss irrelevant stuff. I think the thing that really did me in was the two last times I did Titan HM. the first time we had a player who announced he was new at this instance. The party immediately disbanded without explaining why to him. I stayed and told him to watch the youtube videos and explained that a lot of people have failed this so many times that they don't want to waste their time if they know you're new. He thanked me and said he would study videos to see what to do and I advised him NEVER to tell them if he was new so he could practive once or twice before being abandoned next time. The last Titan run was similar. I was getting pretty good at my role by then, knew where to stand, etc and a guy got knocked off the edge...a few people ******* at him, but we continued another round after wiping. On the next round, the other healer got killed by weight of the land as he was running out after AOE heal, and 2 of the players immediately berated him before they all left. Several players, including the whm stood around like WTF did everyone leave.? I once again explained the mentality that has been adopted in this game as "if the group ain't perfect, ***** them...I'm outta here" mentality. These last two runs are what turned me off to game more than anything. I just never met so many rude people in ANY game I ever played before. I can deal with griefing in PVP...(had it happen many times in other games), or people ******** about things...happens in every MMO. But in other MMO's it seemed like if someone got ******* at in a PUG or other group, there was always a player or two who tried to defend them or at least explain the protocol for an instance before leaving. I never saw that here, except for the times I did it and I did a LOT of instances (mostly level 90 gear). Sorry for my long windedness and best of luck to you all.
#23 Dec 04 2013 at 11:50 AM Rating: Excellent
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deniswriter wrote:
Thanks for all your comments. I wasn't trying to troll, just kind of using this as a coda for the time I spent here. I did watch the Youtube videos by the way for Titan and actually I was better than many of the other WHMs...we just ended wiping because it seemed as if someone (including myself at times) would ***** up and the party would just disband. As for the post about whining in general and wanting content handed to me, that is not the case. I'm just stating that as an average player, I found the game too hard for me in Titan HM and got tired of doing it over and over again...I mean come on...I played FFXI for years doing SKY, SEA, etc. constantly and as you know if you played it, that content was hard as **** until they changed everything to make it easier. WP was a walk in the park for me even though I'm not that great, but since I could not seem to advance past titan, it got really old doing it 8-10 times a week along with AK. I mistakenly said LS when I meant FC. I was in several FC's but they were mostly quiet affairs where everyone did their own thing so I never actually made any friends like I did in FFXI. It just seems that in the other MMO's I played...Ultima Online, WOW, Rift, Aion, FFXI, the LS's, guilds, etc. were quite friendly...even if you had only been there a few days. The FC's I was in here were very nice when you joined, then no one ever spoke after that except to say hello when you logged on or discuss irrelevant stuff. I think the thing that really did me in was the two last times I did Titan HM. the first time we had a player who announced he was new at this instance. The party immediately disbanded without explaining why to him. I stayed and told him to watch the youtube videos and explained that a lot of people have failed this so many times that they don't want to waste their time if they know you're new. He thanked me and said he would study videos to see what to do and I advised him NEVER to tell them if he was new so he could practive once or twice before being abandoned next time. The last Titan run was similar. I was getting pretty good at my role by then, knew where to stand, etc and a guy got knocked off the edge...a few people ******* at him, but we continued another round after wiping. On the next round, the other healer got killed by weight of the land as he was running out after AOE heal, and 2 of the players immediately berated him before they all left. Several players, including the whm stood around like WTF did everyone leave.? I once again explained the mentality that has been adopted in this game as "if the group ain't perfect, ***** them...I'm outta here" mentality. These last two runs are what turned me off to game more than anything. I just never met so many rude people in ANY game I ever played before. I can deal with griefing in PVP...(had it happen many times in other games), or people ******** about things...happens in every MMO. But in other MMO's it seemed like if someone got ******* at in a PUG or other group, there was always a player or two who tried to defend them or at least explain the protocol for an instance before leaving. I never saw that here, except for the times I did it and I did a LOT of instances (mostly level 90 gear). Sorry for my long windedness and best of luck to you all.


That stuff happens unfortunately too often. It has become a situation where if you rushed in the beginning, the mountain was empty and everyone was learning so it was the "norm" to explain things. What those folks are now forgetting when they are levelling their alts is that there are some people out there who are on their first characters and are still learning. Everyone had to learn the map at one time. Duty finder matches are pretty much like dropping you off in the deep end with no floaties. You sink or swim. And most of the time it is not your fault. You just need a good FC and you will be fine.

Seriously though, wait a few weeks on this new patch. It should help you gear (tomes through treasure hunts and beastman quests, new missions that no one knows yet) without suffering the wrath of the buttheads.
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#24GiftedChild, Posted: Dec 04 2013 at 12:14 PM, Rating: Sub-Default, (Expand Post) Play Korean MMO's.
#25 Dec 04 2013 at 12:15 PM Rating: Decent
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Shiener wrote:
To many people rush to the end, and for what reason?


Because the developers of newer "standard" MMORPGs want us to, that's the only reason.
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#26 Dec 04 2013 at 12:19 PM Rating: Excellent
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So the game is limited to launch content, and the players are your typical MMO mix of casual-friendly, hardcore-friendly, hardcore-jerks, casual-jerks and people on drugs. Is that unusual?

Even after reading your entire post I'm still not sure if you are quitting, and telling everyone here, because of the game, or the community, or because MMO's just aren't your thing.

Whether or not you have fun playing FFXIV does depend a great deal on finding a great FC and good friends to play with. You have to be the kind of person that makes friends. There are a ton of ways to meet cool people in FFXIV (the DF is not one of them).

Topping the list, straight from the most common FFXI advice of all time:
1.) Make you own party.
- go to Revenant's Toll and /shout for "AK normal run for casual players LFM 1/4" This will totally work. I would join. Trust me, you are not alone wanting a low-stress environment to have fun in your free time.

2.) Ask around in your FC if anyone needs help. Go re-fight Hydra or Chimera for fun. Just join a /shout party. Why not? Help, help, help any chance you get, anyone that needs it.

3.) During any of these events (which have players from your server) take note of the players with positive attitudes. Tell them so. "That run was fun. Well done. Good times." Then send them a friend invite. The friends-list is a valuable tool if you want to maximize your MMO fun!

4.) Today's complete stranger is tomorrow's most helpful friend. Go figure. Who knew that Tank who was struggling to remember shield oath at Stone Vigil would later become the Uber tank that leads the FC through Coil? Give people a chance to improve. For the most part they will.

Now check your friends list when you log on and send a couple tells first thing to see if they need help -OR- are planning something cool you can join in on. After you find a cool friend or two, ask to join their FC. Don't expect a new FC to jump through hoops to help you. Help them first. Most players remember who helped them and try to make absolutely sure they can repay the favor when the chance arises.

--------

The only way to improve the community in FF is for each player to do their part to make it better. Can't find cool people? Start by being a cool person. Other cool people will find you. It takes time and effort to develop truly rewarding friendships. Then the fun will multiply. Fun, fun, for everyone.
#27 Dec 04 2013 at 12:34 PM Rating: Excellent
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Gnu wrote:

4.) Today's complete stranger is tomorrow's most helpful friend. Go figure. Who knew that Tank who was struggling to remember shield oath at Stone Vigil would later become the Uber tank that leads the FC through Coil? Give people a chance to improve. For the most part they will.


So true. I remember asking on these forums how people were running around so fast in the town and thinking that I needed to level archer to use "Sprint" like it was the new thief. I got super Lol'ed.
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#28 Dec 04 2013 at 12:35 PM Rating: Good
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Gnu wrote:
So the game is limited to launch content, and the players are your typical MMO mix of casual-friendly, hardcore-friendly, hardcore-jerks, casual-jerks and people on drugs. Is that unusual?

Even after reading your entire post I'm still not sure if you are quitting, and telling everyone here, because of the game, or the community, or because MMO's just aren't your thing.

Whether or not you have fun playing FFXIV does depend a great deal on finding a great FC and good friends to play with. You have to be the kind of person that makes friends. There are a ton of ways to meet cool people in FFXIV (the DF is not one of them).

Topping the list, straight from the most common FFXI advice of all time:
1.) Make you own party.
- go to Revenant's Toll and /shout for "AK normal run for casual players LFM 1/4" This will totally work. I would join. Trust me, you are not alone wanting a low-stress environment to have fun in your free time.

2.) Ask around in your FC if anyone needs help. Go re-fight Hydra or Chimera for fun. Just join a /shout party. Why not? Help, help, help any chance you get, anyone that needs it.

3.) During any of these events (which have players from your server) take note of the players with positive attitudes. Tell them so. "That run was fun. Well done. Good times." Then send them a friend invite. The friends-list is a valuable tool if you want to maximize your MMO fun!

4.) Today's complete stranger is tomorrow's most helpful friend. Go figure. Who knew that Tank who was struggling to remember shield oath at Stone Vigil would later become the Uber tank that leads the FC through Coil? Give people a chance to improve. For the most part they will.

Now check your friends list when you log on and send a couple tells first thing to see if they need help -OR- are planning something cool you can join in on. After you find a cool friend or two, ask to join their FC. Don't expect a new FC to jump through hoops to help you. Help them first. Most players remember who helped them and try to make absolutely sure they can repay the favor when the chance arises.

--------

The only way to improve the community in FF is for each player to do their part to make it better. Can't find cool people? Start by being a cool person. Other cool people will find you. It takes time and effort to develop truly rewarding friendships. Then the fun will multiply. Fun, fun, for everyone.


That is really good advice....
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#29 Dec 04 2013 at 3:23 PM Rating: Decent
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Theonehio wrote:
Shiener wrote:
To many people rush to the end, and for what reason?


Because the developers of newer "standard" MMORPGs want us to, that's the only reason.


Most people rush to the end because it's where most of the content will be and that is what players want, not the devs.
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#30 Dec 04 2013 at 3:28 PM Rating: Excellent
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Not gonna lie, CT's week-long lockout for loot took a lot of wind out of my sails. On one end being a relic BLM, then at best, pretty much DL everything else makes me wonder what the point is.
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#31 Dec 04 2013 at 3:35 PM Rating: Excellent
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Ha, you should have taken a break like... a month ago? I rushed through got a relic beat some Coil and said "OK, this will be lots of fun with more content. Be back for 2.1!"

And it's been wonderful. I'm really looking forward to the new expansion, having been logged out for a month.
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#32 Dec 04 2013 at 3:51 PM Rating: Excellent
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deniswriter wrote:
I was better than many of the other WHMs...


Maybe this is part of your problem... WHM is not as much fun in this game, for whatever reason it's quite a difficult job if the group is not over-geared.

I was a 75 WHM in FFXI for years, an end-game healer for Sky, Sea, Dynamis, etc... And I have played my fiance's toon a few times recently to help her advance and it's no freaking joke.

I kind of hate WHM in FFXIV actually, I'm glad I decided not to be a healer in this game. If I were to be one, I'd probably go SCH.

Try changing it up, maybe BLM or SMN if you can put up with slightly longer queue times... I just do some crafting or gathering while I'm queued so I barely notice as a DRG.

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#33 Dec 04 2013 at 3:52 PM Rating: Decent
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Seriha wrote:
Not gonna lie, CT's week-long lockout for loot took a lot of wind out of my sails. On one end being a relic BLM, then at best, pretty much DL everything else makes me wonder what the point is.

Point?

Not everyone online is 50 and decked out
Not everyone who will ever play ffxiv is playing it
Fun
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Other jobs
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#34 Dec 04 2013 at 4:18 PM Rating: Excellent
Seriha wrote:
Not gonna lie, CT's week-long lockout for loot took a lot of wind out of my sails. On one end being a relic BLM, then at best, pretty much DL everything else makes me wonder what the point is.


Ya, it's the same here, you log on for one night and run through what you need. That being said, I've just logged on a bit less for the rest of week and gathered, crafted, leveled alts, joined random shouts who need help on something. We're only a couple weeks away from Crystal Tower being released, can obtain on ilvl 80 gear on DL jobs, run with more people, it adds another night in the week to do something. Same thing with King Moogle, but if all your worried about is decking out one job and that's it, ugh, it's gonna be pointless to play.
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#35 Dec 04 2013 at 4:57 PM Rating: Good
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LebargeX wrote:
Seriha wrote:
Not gonna lie, CT's week-long lockout for loot took a lot of wind out of my sails. On one end being a relic BLM, then at best, pretty much DL everything else makes me wonder what the point is.

Point?

Not everyone online is 50 and decked out
Not everyone who will ever play ffxiv is playing it
Fun
Excitement
Other jobs

Content has a life span for me. I've never been shy in expressing that opinion. And if me wanting loot for my reasonable efforts subsequently makes me a loot *****, then I'll accept that accusation, too. This is pretty much me saying that if I wanted to take LNC up, I could have it on par with my BLM, if not a smidge weaker after a few weeks. These lock outs pretty much assure that that can't happen and spreads it out to months. And in part at the expense of my BLM's growth, to boot.

So, let's say I got a piece of gear for the week. What's the point of me going again and incurring durability loss, thus a gil expense, for nothing tangible. Fun, you say? Will that be the case 10 weeks from now after we've possibly run it dozens of times? Odds are I would've run it with my friends to begin with, too. I really can't emphasize enough how much I ******* hate time gating, though. And I'm honestly sick of MMOs believing that we, as players, like it, too. We may know why it's there, as content certainly takes time to develop, but then this leads to the inevitable question of whether or not our money's actually being put to its best use for the game first, and then SE's other ventures.

I'm not a hardcore no-lifer, but I hate being held back just because. And this isn't even their pinnacle content like BC. I'm tired of condoning this crap with flimsy excuses like it's the RMT's fault or people won't play nice with each other. I hope enough ***** about this and Yoshi waffles in the 2 weeks we have before patch. I'd be more tolerant of once a day, as I'm sure many others would be. But if stays at 1 week? Why should I be excited? Why should I not expect more of the same in the future?
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#36 Dec 04 2013 at 5:38 PM Rating: Excellent
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I can respect what you are saying Seriha. With just a bit more free time I would be feeling the lack of things to do myself. Right now helping friends, or even strangers, catch up is my go-to activity for fun.

Still working through Coil, a bit further each week. So I'm kinda in the middle of the pack. Not bored yet!

Even though, as you say, there are reasons for time gating (interesting term), I'm not going to try to convince you that you're not frustrated. Frustration should be discussed and then addressed as often as possible! Clearly the MMO world could use some innovations in character development to offer new avenues past the level cap.

Any end-game advancement ideas you have seen that would fit in FFXIV? A complimentary system to stats and gear?
#37 Dec 04 2013 at 6:02 PM Rating: Good
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Well, if we're being brutally honest, I'd add the fact that gear progression is tied so strongly to dungeon content at the moment as a frustration as well as zero open-world endgame. A couple beastmen dailies isn't going to change the latter in any respectable manner. And crafting obviously suffers with its best being locked to i70 at the moment with CT being i80 and BC at i90. Yoshi fearing RMT is also exactly why crafting is in that situation. I've talked about workarounds before, with maybe a little dash of faith in the community not being douchebags to one another, or at least your own immediate circle of friends.

I saw Hyan make another thread about how he believes these lockouts help his demographic. I'm going to assume he's talking about casuals. I'm going to say this does nothing to help casuals at all. The people who would feel inclined to blitz through gear acquisition, were it possible here, will likely be forming their own 8-man groups (and then some if it's ever possible). They'll probably do it on Monday and not give a **** for the rest of the week to boot. Hence it being highly unlikely they'd actually want to play with the casuals, or would do so as little as possible as not to offend their delicate sensibilities. In personally approaching this from the casual perspective, I consider that maybe I have a Saturday all to myself, and thus 8 hours I could throw at CT for the sake of a secondary job. I get in and in under 2 hours with my first run, I get a drop. CT is now useless to me for those remaining 6 hours. Could I do something else like level another job? Sure. But then what I do when everything is 50 and in full DL? Make money? Why? Crafting is arbitrarily second-rate.

This is what I like to call an artificial Game Over. It happens with time gating. It happens with raiding being the only source of gear tiers after a point. It's basically a problem in the assumption that everyone can or does want to play the same way. We don't. It doesn't mean we want hand-outs, mind you. It just means we want something to do so we always feel like our avatars are growing and improving. And frankly, people need to get mad that SE is telling us we can't play a game we're paying for. Just because this problem doesn't apply to someone who only plays a couple hours a week does not mean it isn't a problem.

Solutions? Sure, I've got ideas. But I'm feeling too cynical right now to even want to express them. And this is before even considering the language barrier. Right now, the best we can hope for is that community reps see people are unhappy with this information.
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#38Parathyroid, Posted: Dec 04 2013 at 6:16 PM, Rating: Sub-Default, (Expand Post) Bingo.
#39 Dec 04 2013 at 8:28 PM Rating: Excellent
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Seriha wrote:
I saw Hyan make another thread about how he believes these lockouts help his demographic. I'm going to assume he's talking about casuals. I'm going to say this does nothing to help casuals at all. The people who would feel inclined to blitz through gear acquisition, were it possible here, will likely be forming their own 8-man groups (and then some if it's ever possible). They'll probably do it on Monday and not give a @#%^ for the rest of the week to boot. Hence it being highly unlikely they'd actually want to play with the casuals, or would do so as little as possible as not to offend their delicate sensibilities.


I play casually, and my sensibilities are anything but delicate. You can't judge someone by their playtime. For every hardcore player who likes to dismiss someone's pathetic n00b build, there's another who enjoys patiently guiding newcomers through endgame dungeons all the time. You can't lump hardcore players into one stereotype of despising casual play nor can you lump casual players into one basket so you can conveniently blame them all for not respecting your problems.

You might not like the game mechanics SE has chosen for this game, but lavishing prejudice (on what's really a diverse group of fellow players) over it doesn't help you one bit. I'm inclined to agree that these artificial lockouts on endgame content don't server any meaningful purpose, but I can't agree with the way you've chosen to express it.
#40 Dec 04 2013 at 9:46 PM Rating: Decent
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LebargeX wrote:
Seriha wrote:
Not gonna lie, CT's week-long lockout for loot took a lot of wind out of my sails. On one end being a relic BLM, then at best, pretty much DL everything else makes me wonder what the point is.

Point?

Not everyone online is 50 and decked out
Not everyone who will ever play ffxiv is playing it
Fun
Excitement
Other jobs


The only thing I'm worried about an one week lockout is that you won't get enough people to play because every other people are locked out. Just hope that DF works out alright, or it's only loot lockout and not participation lockout.

I'm quite bitter at Coil lockout mechanic because I rarely get the chance to do it (and usually until the last day or two before reset) because finding a party at your Turn is such a pain in the you-know-where. I'm nearly full iLvl 90, have experience to T4, know the fights inside out, rarely if ever get hit by AoE, got bunchs of sub class to switch if required, and still struggling to even get into a party for T1 because everyone else either have their own static party (which I can't due to time difference or not being hardcore) or just eventually give up on waiting 3 hours to get that last spot filled.
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#41 Dec 04 2013 at 9:48 PM Rating: Excellent
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The thing is I've seen people attempting to justify the lock-outs because it will keep casuals and hardcores closer together. I'm more than aware that there are far more diverse demographics than the two extremes, but this does not actually achieve what they think it does. It is not encouragement to make them play nice or want to guide strangers. People more apt for that are doing it already, myself included with the PUGs I've picked up while running with my PLD friend as we explain bosses or offer more general tips.

I tried to explain that this actually hurts casuals, too. In fact, all time-sensitive gating does. Miss a day of Dynamis in XI? You'll never be able to make up that profit. Not get your drop in CT this week or simply not have the time time to try? Next week doesn't care. One only.

As long as someone is trying, they will eventually hit 50. As long as they run dungeons, they will eventually finish a DL set. These are not time-restricted. Do it in a couple days or do it in a couple months. I have no beef with either, honestly, as long as the person on the other end is having fun. But I also know not everyone is going to want to level all jobs. They may not care about crafting. They may do anything faster than I would or could. I don't begrudge them for that. Of course, I hold no sympathy for those who do rush and complain there's nothing to do. I put a lot of time into my character. I don't believe I rushed in the manner some may dictate. So it can get a bit nauseating for those to narrow-mindedly fault others playing how they like within reason. The underlying message they, in turn, convey is that, "The game isn't for you!"

Even if that isn't Yoshi's intent, he's saying that the more he places restrictions on content. I may be an insignificant drop in the bucket as an individual, but I'm not alone on this. I'll spend my time elsewhere, much as I'd like to see XIV thrive. So pardon me for being crass about it, but I criticize because I care.
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#42 Dec 04 2013 at 10:00 PM Rating: Excellent
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Seriha wrote:
I put a lot of time into my character. I don't believe I rushed in the manner some may dictate. So it can get a bit nauseating for those to narrow-mindedly fault others playing how they like within reason. The underlying message they, in turn, convey is that, "The game isn't for you!"

Even if that isn't Yoshi's intent, he's saying that the more he places restrictions on content. I may be an insignificant drop in the bucket as an individual, but I'm not alone on this. I'll spend my time elsewhere, much as I'd like to see XIV thrive. So pardon me for being crass about it, but I criticize because I care.
I'm not at this point quite yet, but I can see my FC (12 of us, friends from before FFXIV) falling apart because of it. We already lost a static PLD because of progression limitations.
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#43 Dec 04 2013 at 10:27 PM Rating: Excellent
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Seriha wrote:
The thing is I've seen people attempting to justify the lock-outs because it will keep casuals and hardcores closer together. I'm more than aware that there are far more diverse demographics than the two extremes, but this does not actually achieve what they think it does. It is not encouragement to make them play nice or want to guide strangers. People more apt for that are doing it already, myself included with the PUGs I've picked up while running with my PLD friend as we explain bosses or offer more general tips.

I tried to explain that this actually hurts casuals, too. In fact, all time-sensitive gating does. Miss a day of Dynamis in XI? You'll never be able to make up that profit. Not get your drop in CT this week or simply not have the time time to try? Next week doesn't care. One only.

As long as someone is trying, they will eventually hit 50. As long as they run dungeons, they will eventually finish a DL set. These are not time-restricted. Do it in a couple days or do it in a couple months. I have no beef with either, honestly, as long as the person on the other end is having fun. But I also know not everyone is going to want to level all jobs. They may not care about crafting. They may do anything faster than I would or could. I don't begrudge them for that. Of course, I hold no sympathy for those who do rush and complain there's nothing to do. I put a lot of time into my character. I don't believe I rushed in the manner some may dictate. So it can get a bit nauseating for those to narrow-mindedly fault others playing how they like within reason. The underlying message they, in turn, convey is that, "The game isn't for you!"

Even if that isn't Yoshi's intent, he's saying that the more he places restrictions on content. I may be an insignificant drop in the bucket as an individual, but I'm not alone on this. I'll spend my time elsewhere, much as I'd like to see XIV thrive. So pardon me for being crass about it, but I criticize because I care.


Thing is, FFXI had these types of lockouts on the majority of its endgame events and there was no casual community to speak of over there. This is an SE thing. It has nothing to do with players who play more vs. players who play less and I really don't think the community turning in on itself to lay blame serves any constructive purpose no matter how many people think it's okay to do so.

It's probably nothing more than an obvious speed bump designed to keep your subscription dragged out longer so you don't wrap up your gear acquisitions in a month and quit till the next major patch. Maybe there's another reason, and Yoshi should certainly be encouraged to offer one of his eloquent explanations as to why. But I can tell you, I don't care about getting all the latest toys, nor do I care about how fast anyone else gets them. Barriers like this have no meaning to someone taking their time with the game; you can't put that at my feet or anyone else who plays like I do. It's SE who owes you an explanation and who need to be convinced of the error of their ways, not people labeled "casual."

Edited, Dec 4th 2013 11:30pm by Xoie
#44 Dec 04 2013 at 10:27 PM Rating: Good
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I'm not at this point quite yet, but I can see my FC (12 of us, friends from before FFXIV) falling apart because of it. We already lost a static PLD because of progression limitations.

That's unfortunate.

Maybe I'm backwards in my thinking, but I've always felt people are more generous with their time and effort when resources aren't choked off. I'd like to think Abyssea was a good example of this for XI, at least when it came to Emp armor papers. Strangers could quickly come together for a goal, and while occasionally face competition, sometimes people were nice enough to alternate. Excess typically wasn't fought over and sometimes it wasn't uncommon to walk away with even more than you intended to come out with.

Either way, I wouldn't expect a gear set all in one go. On the other hand, 30 weeks for all of them? Too steep a curve for me.

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It's SE who owes you an explanation and who need to be convinced of their errors of their ways, not people labeled "casual."

If people weren't defending this, I'd agree. I'm a freakin' white knight for casual players and it pains me to see people falling for this PR trap. SE did ****** stuff in XI I also called them out on, but that lack of change contributed to my earlier bout of cynicism when it came to offering solutions. This one, however, isn't complex. Let people work. Let people get their reward. They want to worry about keeping someone 2-3 months from now? I'd actually be worried about keeping some right this moment.

Edited, Dec 4th 2013 11:39pm by Seriha
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#45 Dec 05 2013 at 5:42 AM Rating: Decent
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I hear you OP.

I am kind of in the same position, though I have yet not hit 50 with a single class and is kind of trying not to level if possible (Currently at lvl 42)
That end game dungeon spamming sound like not fun at all to me.

I am in a fairly good FC I think. The problem is that almost everybody else is lvl 50 now and spamming those end game dungeons, complaining about all bad groups they are in ("this tank sucks", "those dps are bad", "this healer sucks")
I wish I could find a LS, or worst case, maybe another FC (?) with demographic more similar to my playing style.

Thing is, I really, really love most other aspects about this game. I actually prefer to stay and enjoy the scenery, atmosphere, story at the fullest. And the rain! It is so freaking well done! Both the sound and sight of it!

Regarding dungeons, if possible, I like to enter them without checking ten youtube videos to know exact tactics if possible.
I do understand that other just want to clear the dungeons, so to avoid too many wipes, I checked tactics for the last few storyline dungeons.

My very best dungeon experience so far was a dungeon at lvl 32 (I think, it was an optional one) where we PUGed from different servers. None of us had ran the dungeon before. We wiped two times, realized what went wrong and then made another try ("hmmm, we get wet standing here and then all those electric monsters appear and zap us, what if we...") and cleared the bosses!
I am pretty sure I will remember that specific dungeon run for a long time, and if nothing else, it is one very positive memory I will have from this game.

It is now a week since I last logged in to the game.
Maybe I will wait until 2.1 hits, and then check out that housing stuff and maybe continue trying to level slowly.
Or possibly, start all over again with another character to see how the storyline is in the other cities.
#46 Dec 05 2013 at 9:07 AM Rating: Default
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I saw Hyan make another thread about how he believes these lockouts help his demographic. I'm going to assume he's talking about casuals. I'm going to say this does nothing to help casuals at all. The people who would feel inclined to blitz through gear acquisition, were it possible here, will likely be forming their own 8-man groups (and then some if it's ever possible). They'll probably do it on Monday and not give a @#%^ for the rest of the week to boot. Hence it being highly unlikely they'd actually want to play with the casuals, or would do so as little as possible as not to offend their delicate sensibilities. In personally approaching this from the casual perspective, I consider that maybe I have a Saturday all to myself, and thus 8 hours I could throw at CT for the sake of a secondary job. I get in and in under 2 hours with my first run, I get a drop. CT is now useless to me for those remaining 6 hours. Could I do something else like level another job? Sure. But then what I do when everything is 50 and in full DL? Make money? Why? Crafting is arbitrarily second-rate.


I do not disagree with you regarding what the hardcore population would do in this scenario. Yet I personally do not see much value in the hardcore and casuals playing together. If that's what somebody wants from the game, then SE's design direction may not be for their interests.

When you say that this does nothing to help casuals at all, I'm not sure whether you mean that the hardcore population will not run the dungeon with them or something else. I suppose that you mean the former, sorry if I'm mistaken.

The point of my previous post was simply that the delicate balance between the hardcore and casual calls for one of two measures. You either artificially lock the hardcore population out of progressing too fast in an environment where equipment is easily accessible (meaning it doesn't take lots of time to obtain equipment). The other possibility is that you don't lock the hardcore out of clearing the content in an environment where equipment takes significant time investment to acquire.

We can see that SE has chosen to go with the first option, which as a casual works in my favor. It works in my favor because the equipment does not take a lot of time investment to obtain, plus the effort I put in does not exceed the caps enforced by the devs.

Yoshi-P discussed the overall progression design in the recent interview, stating that the players are encouraged to create a content rotation cycle for themselves. Afaik in 2.1 this can consist of the Duty Roulette, Daily Beastmen quests and the CT (for casuals). All in all during a single week you should be able to cap out your tomes as well as obtain a piece of gear from the CT.

Maybe we are in a disagreement for what is considered casual. Having every job at 50 in full DL does not sound casual to me. Then we can just agree to disagree.

EDIT: Regarding how lockouts hurt casuals: That is only true if there is something meaningful to lose by not clearing the content. The patch cycle is loose enough that no harm will come to those who aren't constantly maxing out their tomes. Of course, the more jobs you want to utilize the more pressure is put on you. It should be a decision based on how much time you can invest in the game.

Edited, Dec 5th 2013 6:15pm by Hyanmen
#47 Dec 05 2013 at 9:20 AM Rating: Decent
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Hairspray wrote:
deniswriter wrote:
I was better than many of the other WHMs...


Maybe this is part of your problem... WHM is not as much fun in this game, for whatever reason it's quite a difficult job if the group is not over-geared.

I was a 75 WHM in FFXI for years, an end-game healer for Sky, Sea, Dynamis, etc... And I have played my fiance's toon a few times recently to help her advance and it's no freaking joke.

I kind of hate WHM in FFXIV actually, I'm glad I decided not to be a healer in this game. If I were to be one, I'd probably go SCH.

Try changing it up, maybe BLM or SMN if you can put up with slightly longer queue times... I just do some crafting or gathering while I'm queued so I barely notice as a DRG.



Aint that the truth... Way different than FFXI...

I can always tell within 30 seconds of a fight how it is going to go, mainly by how much the tank is getting hit for.. If they are under geared I am thinking we are going to be fighting for our life the whole way. Undergeared DPS also can be a issue and of coarse the WHM needs proper gear. Gear in this game make a much bigger difference. People like to blame everyone especially the healer but allot of times it is a under geared tank that is the issue. We only get so much mp and only cast spells so fast and their is nothing we can do about that.

Yea I loved whm in FFXI but not as much in this game. it heal, heal, heal occasional ensuna. Not as much to do in FFXIV but if there was it would be really ruff...



Edited, Dec 5th 2013 10:25am by Nashred
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#48 Dec 05 2013 at 12:40 PM Rating: Good
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Regarding how lockouts hurt casuals: That is only true if there is something meaningful to lose by not clearing the content. The patch cycle is loose enough that no harm will come to those who aren't constantly maxing out their tomes. Of course, the more jobs you want to utilize the more pressure is put on you. It should be a decision based on how much time you can invest in the game.

It is no longer a decision when that decision is taken way.

Yoshi can try to encourage us to create this silly glut of rotations that hurt FFXI in its horizontal peak, but that doesn't change the fact content has lifespans for people. AK/WP gear? Well, disregarding AK gear is better by default there, I have a retainer that's basically full of the stuff just by playing the tome game. I'm missing the Hoplite Circlet and perhaps the Heitaros boots. But hey, RNG gonna RNG, right? How did I get these things? By rolling greed and other people not wanting them. I still participated in the dungeons, of course, but there was no SE slapping my wrist when I reached for the cookie jar. And nobody cared.

SE going Gandalf on us and saying we shall not pass a certain progression threshold is flying squarely in the face of one of the game's key features. And it will only get worse the more jobs they add in the future if not told this isn't what's good for their players.

Edited, Dec 5th 2013 1:42pm by Seriha
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#49 Dec 05 2013 at 2:12 PM Rating: Good
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Hairspray wrote:
Good luck, if you do decide to come back (Happens a lot more then you'd think in MMO's) make sure you get into a Free Company that is doing end-game content so you can get past things like Titan a lot easier and not feel so burnt-out. Also, after about 10 years of MMO playing the best piece of advice I can give is to find a game/life balance. Don't play 24/7, first of all it will cost you a lot of relationships IRL, and possibly your job, learn to take it easier and you'll probably enjoy it longer.

This individual speaks the truth.

Edited, Dec 5th 2013 3:12pm by TwilightSkye
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#50 Dec 05 2013 at 2:40 PM Rating: Excellent
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Nashred wrote:
Hairspray wrote:
deniswriter wrote:
I was better than many of the other WHMs...


Maybe this is part of your problem... WHM is not as much fun in this game, for whatever reason it's quite a difficult job if the group is not over-geared.

I was a 75 WHM in FFXI for years, an end-game healer for Sky, Sea, Dynamis, etc... And I have played my fiance's toon a few times recently to help her advance and it's no freaking joke.

I kind of hate WHM in FFXIV actually, I'm glad I decided not to be a healer in this game. If I were to be one, I'd probably go SCH.

Try changing it up, maybe BLM or SMN if you can put up with slightly longer queue times... I just do some crafting or gathering while I'm queued so I barely notice as a DRG.



Aint that the truth... Way different than FFXI...

I can always tell within 30 seconds of a fight how it is going to go, mainly by how much the tank is getting hit for.. If they are under geared I am thinking we are going to be fighting for our life the whole way. Undergeared DPS also can be a issue and of coarse the WHM needs proper gear. Gear in this game make a much bigger difference. People like to blame everyone especially the healer but allot of times it is a under geared tank that is the issue. We only get so much mp and only cast spells so fast and their is nothing we can do about that.

Yea I loved whm in FFXI but not as much in this game. it heal, heal, heal occasional ensuna. Not as much to do in FFXIV but if there was it would be really ruff...



Edited, Dec 5th 2013 10:25am by Nashred


There are definitely times when I don't cast more than a couple spells per fight. Some days, I'm just not feeling up to putting in my all. Some days though, I go batty. I'm popping Cleric stance, Stone II, Aero/Aero II. Then CS off, cure, cure, regen, CS boom boom boom. You can keep yourself busy if you want to. I've yet to have anyone give me a hard time about it. If it's a trash mob with no AOE I'm back there with the Dragoon smacking stuff with my stick. I mean... why not? It's not like XI where DPS'ing as a caster slows you down.

Of course, I'm not talking boss fights. I reserve all MP for healing during a boss fight. In fact, I have two hotbars set up. One for pure healing, and the other for pseudo RDM'ing lol.
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#51 Dec 05 2013 at 7:52 PM Rating: Excellent
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Hyanmen wrote:
EDIT: Regarding how lockouts hurt casuals: That is only true if there is something meaningful to lose by not clearing the content. The patch cycle is loose enough that no harm will come to those who aren't constantly maxing out their tomes. Of course, the more jobs you want to utilize the more pressure is put on you. It should be a decision based on how much time you can invest in the game.


Not really, lockout does hurt everyone by various degrees. It's been months and the frigging Allaghan Pants of Maiming does not drop for me. Does not help when Allaghan drop is very chest specific. Tired of Primal not dropping your weapon? Hah, try weekly lockout Coil drop. Some people could go months without getting any drop by the NEED system. So the Myth Tome is very important to gear yourself up.
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