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Time for me to leave FFXIVFollow

#52 Dec 06 2013 at 6:25 AM Rating: Default
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Khornette wrote:
Hyanmen wrote:
EDIT: Regarding how lockouts hurt casuals: That is only true if there is something meaningful to lose by not clearing the content. The patch cycle is loose enough that no harm will come to those who aren't constantly maxing out their tomes. Of course, the more jobs you want to utilize the more pressure is put on you. It should be a decision based on how much time you can invest in the game.


Not really, lockout does hurt everyone by various degrees. It's been months and the frigging Allaghan Pants of Maiming does not drop for me. Does not help when Allaghan drop is very chest specific. Tired of Primal not dropping your weapon? Hah, try weekly lockout Coil drop. Some people could go months without getting any drop by the NEED system. So the Myth Tome is very important to gear yourself up.


It is a fact that the rate at which equipment is acquired is set by the developer. Lockouts combined by RNG is simply one manifestation of said rate of acquisition.

If lockouts were to be removed there would simply be more equipment in circulation as the result. But it needs to be understood that if this is the ultimate goal, the devs could just keep the lockout in place and have the bosses drop more loot in stead. Now if you want to keep the status quo by removing the lockout then the drop rate needs to be decreased as well.

As the result hardcore may benefit from the combination of removed lockouts + decreased drop rates because they can overcome the decrease by investing much more of their time to clearing the dungeons. Casuals on the other hand are left to eat the dust just because they can't/won't invest more of their time to the game.

All this in mind the lockouts do not hurt casuals, quite the opposite. What does hurt both at the end of the day is that the rate of acquisition set by the devs is set too "low". This in turn is due to the devs wanting the player to keep playing the game while they prepare more content to be consumed.

Edited, Dec 6th 2013 3:26pm by Hyanmen
#53 Dec 06 2013 at 7:12 AM Rating: Default
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Seriha wrote:

It is no longer a decision when that decision is taken way.

Yoshi can try to encourage us to create this silly glut of rotations that hurt FFXI in its horizontal peak, but that doesn't change the fact content has lifespans for people. AK/WP gear? Well, disregarding AK gear is better by default there, I have a retainer that's basically full of the stuff just by playing the tome game. I'm missing the Hoplite Circlet and perhaps the Heitaros boots. But hey, RNG gonna RNG, right? How did I get these things? By rolling greed and other people not wanting them. I still participated in the dungeons, of course, but there was no SE slapping my wrist when I reached for the cookie jar. And nobody cared.

SE going Gandalf on us and saying we shall not pass a certain progression threshold is flying squarely in the face of one of the game's key features. And it will only get worse the more jobs they add in the future if not told this isn't what's good for their players.


Everything you say sounds less and less like casual problems and more and more like hc problems.

You have six months to get the tomes and equipment you need with the limits in place. Will you only manage to equip one job in that time span? Six months equals 24 CT items, one per week. That makes Armoury useless?

Edited, Dec 6th 2013 4:13pm by Hyanmen
#54 Dec 06 2013 at 9:34 AM Rating: Excellent
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I'm not going to argue speculations on what individuals or groups in the community will do in response to game types. I hate to paint with a general brush, but people come and go in MMOs all the time, and we're still in the formulating months of the game where its niche is carved out.

Each an every one of us, as individuals always end up hoping that there will be enough room in that niche for us to fit our sensibilities and standards for gaming into it. However this is not the case for many, as much as it is a disappointment.

However, strictly speaking, it is not a fault on a Company's part for designing a game that disagree with a certain individuals or group's personal entertainment preferences, nor is it their responsibility to alter their own vision for the game to do so. Ignoring a dynamic, however, does have a clear effect on their subscription model, however the balancing of such things are usually beyond the view of any individual actually participating within the community itself. Put bluntly, we as players cannot, typically by design, see the forest for the trees when it comes to business matters. It is in their hands how and who they choose to appeal to their chosen audience. The best we can do is provide feedback on how they may, if they choose to, appeal to us better.

What upsets me is the assumptions on the part of a disenfranchised or disappointed player that the game should appeal strictly to them, in willful ignorance of these above facts. Or, when expectations are inflated beyond realistic proportions. And when called out upon this, or even without such provocation, a staggering number quickly resort to hyperbole, confirmation bias, and personal attacks upon any who have an opposing perspective, be it player, moderator, or game designer.

I am thankful to say the Zam is one of the few communities that I feel keep this behavior fairly well suppressed and out of our primary spotlight. That said, I would caution against encouraging the behavior in any manner as it can quite easily slip into the mainstream conversations.

I've said this before, but sometimes it's best to speak with one's subscription. I left FFXI with no great fanfare or complaint. I had made several attempts at feedback before over the years and even found alternate sources of entertainment within the game itself. When the issues became too numerous for me to really feel connected to the game, I simply left, without regret or remorse. Nearly a decade is a long time to be entertained by a single game, subscription or otherwise.

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That aside, there have been a lot of statements in the negative about the Lockouts that I do not agree with personally, though I can understand how they can upset someone who wants to progress at a faster pace then they are being allowed.

As a personal opinion, I am content with Crystal Tower lockout system, more-so than the one involving Bahamut's Coil. By all impressions, it seems to be that Crystal Tower only prevents you from hoarding loot, rather than flat out prevent you from playing and therefore aiding others.

I cannot help but think this system benefits and appeals to me in particular, as for me gear is a tertiary concern, behind story advancement and communal entertainment. As someone who values player made content on equal level to that of developer made content - as well as a limiting work schedule (11 hours a day spanning the middle of the day into the evening.) I cannot shake the feeling that this sort of system allows me to participate in endgame without feeling the pressure that it is completely consuming other aspects of my enjoyment in game.

While I can sympathize with the idea that a choice to play in focus of endgame has been taken away - I must argue that without such restrictions, there would be virtually no encouragement to assist other players, to socialize or community build unless it came with a substantive reward that contributed to Power Creep. At least in this sense the argument cannot be made that someone cannot help another individual or simply spend time in their community on account of not having available time due to endgame grind.

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A lot of arguments have been made to the case that Crystal Tower and other content in 2.1 is 'moving backwards' as a fault. I, however do not see fault in this. A lot of content in this game was focused on being irrelevant of an individuals personal progress, such as the Duty Roulette, housing, and PvP. Others, such as Crystal Tower, stem to make the progression into Coil itself easier, while others still focus on a progression of the main story itself. Multiple avenues and play-styles were appealed to at once, which makes sense why the Apex of endgame would remain mostly untouched or sparsely added upon - it was a broad strokes update.

It makes me feel like the game itself is designed with such broad style of play in mind. The game is multifaceted, and those who are trying to encompass much or all of it are finding plenty to do, and much of the game mechanics encourages you to stop and play other parts of it. These lockouts are simply evidence of this sort of playstyle.

As the game flushes out more, those who prefer a more focused play-style will likely be accommodated, I can't help but remind myself that this is equivalent of pre-Zilart FFXI, and by comparison we already have much more content than we did even at NA launch. (Dynamis did not come out until some time after.) While the player dynamic has changed, the age-true mantra of MMO's I feel still remains: patience is rewarded, haste is punished. To date, I have not seen an MMO that has broken this rule.

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On the OP topic. I won't lie, I'm not participant enough in this community as I would like to be, so I can speak for them. But for your second post here at Zam being one of an exit, it leaves the personal impression that you didn't try to engage yourself in what I would consider one of the better parts of the FFXIV community as a whole.

In spite of differences in opinion that occasionally clash, ZAM's good people. Maybe instead of saying goodbye to the game for a while, why not stay a while and say hello to all the folks here? You can tell by the sheer mass of information and opinion provided that we have a passionate community, and as I said before, it's fairly well tempered.

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TL;DL

In short, the game is new, it won't appeal to everyone, but the community here is better than most, and darn good in its own right. I play differently than others so the common gripes don't rub me the wrong way like they do others, but at the same time I feel like a lot of the complaints go overboard.

In the meanwhile, I feel the game encourages people to play around, rather than just focus on endgame. So why not stay a while, see what else the game, or even the players in the game, have to offer you besides gear progression?
#55 Dec 06 2013 at 10:11 AM Rating: Good
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Khornette wrote:
Hyanmen wrote:
EDIT: Regarding how lockouts hurt casuals: That is only true if there is something meaningful to lose by not clearing the content. The patch cycle is loose enough that no harm will come to those who aren't constantly maxing out their tomes. Of course, the more jobs you want to utilize the more pressure is put on you. It should be a decision based on how much time you can invest in the game.


Not really, lockout does hurt everyone by various degrees. It's been months and the frigging Allaghan Pants of Maiming does not drop for me. Does not help when Allaghan drop is very chest specific. Tired of Primal not dropping your weapon? Hah, try weekly lockout Coil drop. Some people could go months without getting any drop by the NEED system. So the Myth Tome is very important to gear yourself up.


I've heard of groups who cant get caster gear to drop. My group's issue is with the lack of tank and healer gear. RNG is a fickle beast. That is sort of why I am happy that if you beat all three extreme primals, you can at least choose the weapon you want.
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#56 Dec 06 2013 at 10:20 AM Rating: Excellent
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WARNING, GIGANTIC WALL OF TEXT INCOMING!

But it's a wall made up of reasonably sized bricks of text, like a good wall should be. More forum post walls should be built this way.
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#57 Dec 06 2013 at 11:24 AM Rating: Excellent
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svlyons wrote:
Hyrist wrote:
WARNING, GIGANTIC WALL OF TEXT INCOMING!

But it's a wall made up of reasonably sized bricks of text, like a good wall should be. More forum post walls should be built this way.


All and all we're just a, 'nother brick in the (text) wall...
#58 Dec 06 2013 at 12:00 PM Rating: Excellent
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Hyanmen wrote:
You have six months to get the tomes and equipment you need with the limits in place. Will you only manage to equip one job in that time span? Six months equals 24 CT items, one per week. That makes Armoury useless?

It's a bit old school and dangerous to think everyone plots their entertainment in huge blocks of time like months or years. "Yay, I'll have a relic weapon 3 months from now if I..." certainly never excited me in FFXI and you can bet the vast majority never chase them because of such even after Dynamis' adjustment. I scratch my head at what seems to be a demonizing of people wanting to chase the carrot these days. Making friends through CT is handicapped due to lacking cross-server options. Doing it with friends or to kill time on occasion may indeed happen, but you can't assume everyone operates that way or enjoys dumping chunks of time for what amounts to digital charity.

It isn't selfish to want to do work and get something to show for it.

Even if we were able to spam CT without restriction, I'd be surprised if I got all the sets in 3 months. I know how I play. I know how RNG loves to spite me. I know there's never a guarantee I'll be the sole roller. But you know what else should be happening 3 months from now? Another patch and with that, shock of shocks, things to do! It's what we pay SE for, right? Certainly if I was content to put all that effort in before, with an even bigger carrot on the horizon, why, I just might do it again! And I'm not alone on this.

You can attempt to marginalize me into the hardcore demographic if it makes you feel better. I've not been shy about feeling I hover in between the two. Yet, when I argue against hardcore grinds and essentially keeping people from the content they paid for, it's because telling people what they can and can't do with their time is heavy-handed and quite often unfair. Simply flipping the dynamic and trying to say it's for the casual's benefit doesn't change this. There's over a million people in the game. I would be quite surprised if I ever interacted with 100,000 of them through the DF or directly on my server over time. I can assure you me being 0/30, 30/30, or somewhere in between will have no impact on their gameplay short of better performance if we do get paired up. Whether I play more or play less should have no impact on your personal feelings. And yes, while there are jackasses out there that hold others to unreasonable standards, I certainly don't enjoy being "punished" because they're juvenile twits.

But it's easier to assume people will just gobble it all up in a week or so and then ***** about there's nothing to do. You're so totally doing these people a favor by defending this, aren't you?! I'll give you a hint: A dev shouldn't be encouraging people to quit. It may not be their intent, but the Road to **** and all that... And no, I'm not saying XIV will die. I'm saying it'll lose potential. Potential fueled by money, by subs.
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#59 Dec 06 2013 at 12:17 PM Rating: Excellent
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Seriha wrote:
Not get your drop in CT this week or simply not have the time time to try? Next week doesn't care. One only.


Oooh oooh! This has given me an idea!

The token system works fairly well right? Except for the Myth cap, generally it keeps everyone feeling like they are progressing at the very least. So combine the Leve Allowance accruement system with the weekly token cap system.

I'm talking about roll-over minutes here!

You start accruing Myth Cap, Coil Lockouts and CT loot lockouts the very minute you create your character! This serves two purposes. It still keeps the Hardcore from flying way to far ahead to ever be relevant to the general community, but they at least have the option to go play Battlefield for two or three weeks and still not lose a minute of possible progression. It also allows casuals to catch-up quicker than ever!

Game re-released in August right? We would all have 18~20 runs of Coil available before we hit the weekly cap. We would have accrued a total 6000 Myth stone cap. If you don't have Crystal Tower unlock the day it comes out, who cares. Keep fishing. Finish your current goals. You don't have to rush the content to stay at the front of the curve. Catch up at your own pace. Going on vacation? No problem. Next week you will have 600 myths you can gather.

Everyone would have exactly the same potential to catch up, no matter when you unlock the content. No stress, less frustration for everyone.

Win, win, win.
#60 Dec 06 2013 at 12:29 PM Rating: Excellent
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It's an option. Though my pragmatic side wonders why access must be so complicated. That's not me saying it's a bad idea, but just that free access is simpler. Only fault is unless CT got its own tokens, you still risk blowing leves for no progress. For the sake of disclosure, I also dislike the myth tome cap.
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#61 Dec 06 2013 at 1:23 PM Rating: Default
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Seriha wrote:
Hyanmen wrote:
You have six months to get the tomes and equipment you need with the limits in place. Will you only manage to equip one job in that time span? Six months equals 24 CT items, one per week. That makes Armoury useless?

It's a bit old school and dangerous to think everyone plots their entertainment in huge blocks of time like months or years. "Yay, I'll have a relic weapon 3 months from now if I..." certainly never excited me in FFXI and you can bet the vast majority never chase them because of such even after Dynamis' adjustment. I scratch my head at what seems to be a demonizing of people wanting to chase the carrot these days. Making friends through CT is handicapped due to lacking cross-server options. Doing it with friends or to kill time on occasion may indeed happen, but you can't assume everyone operates that way or enjoys dumping chunks of time for what amounts to digital charity.

It isn't selfish to want to do work and get something to show for it.

Even if we were able to spam CT without restriction, I'd be surprised if I got all the sets in 3 months. I know how I play. I know how RNG loves to spite me. I know there's never a guarantee I'll be the sole roller. But you know what else should be happening 3 months from now? Another patch and with that, shock of shocks, things to do! It's what we pay SE for, right? Certainly if I was content to put all that effort in before, with an even bigger carrot on the horizon, why, I just might do it again! And I'm not alone on this.

You can attempt to marginalize me into the hardcore demographic if it makes you feel better. I've not been shy about feeling I hover in between the two. Yet, when I argue against hardcore grinds and essentially keeping people from the content they paid for, it's because telling people what they can and can't do with their time is heavy-handed and quite often unfair. Simply flipping the dynamic and trying to say it's for the casual's benefit doesn't change this. There's over a million people in the game. I would be quite surprised if I ever interacted with 100,000 of them through the DF or directly on my server over time. I can assure you me being 0/30, 30/30, or somewhere in between will have no impact on their gameplay short of better performance if we do get paired up. Whether I play more or play less should have no impact on your personal feelings. And yes, while there are jackasses out there that hold others to unreasonable standards, I certainly don't enjoy being "punished" because they're juvenile twits.

But it's easier to assume people will just gobble it all up in a week or so and then ***** about there's nothing to do. You're so totally doing these people a favor by defending this, aren't you?! I'll give you a hint: A dev shouldn't be encouraging people to quit. It may not be their intent, but the Road to **** and all that... And no, I'm not saying XIV will die. I'm saying it'll lose potential. Potential fueled by money, by subs.


As far as I'm aware you can spam CT without any restrictions until you get one of the pieces you need. I'm not sure where RNG enters the equation in this scenario? It might if it happens to be that you run CT for seven days without being able to obtain any pieces you need. We don't know how likely this will be.

I'm not attempting to marginalize you. I'm simply saying that it seems that we are speaking for different demographics. More importantly, I don't consider one of them to be more important than the other. It simply happens to be that one demographic will get the short end of the stick which naturally will cause them to complain about it, and at this time the demographic in question is the hardcore one.

Now I'm a bit perplexed how come plotting one's entertainment in huge blocks of time is out of the question when you play the game in a way that demands it. If you want to gear up more classes then you need to put in the extra effort too. It can take months, but with the lockouts in place at least the actual effort put in per week is kept to a minimum (in relation to SE's interests).

I must ask one question. Are you trying to indicate that the rate at which players exhaust content has no effect on their willingness to keep paying the sub fee? You keep talking about what other players feel about you going 0/30 or 30/30 on the RNG but I don't think other players come into the equation here. What does a paying customer think when he obtains everything he had set out to obtain in one month when there's two months until the next patch? There is a high chance that he will quit, and this is against SE's interests. Surely, being locked to one piece a week for three months may make someone quit too. But at least the latter fellow still has a carrot dangling in front of him on a weekly basis, not on a trimonthly basis.

It is noble to argue against hardcore grinds and keeping people from the content they paid for. As long as it is in SE's interests to keep people from exhausting the content before a new patch hits the servers, though, there is no choice but to enforce one or the other policy. Will more people quit over being locked to a weekly content rotation as opposed to exhausting the content in a fraction of the time it takes for a new content patch to be released? I'll go with the latter being more detrimental to the sub numbers, but no matter what either of us thinks I'll just state right here that both directions will result in lost subs.
#62 Dec 06 2013 at 1:26 PM Rating: Default
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Gnu wrote:

Everyone would have exactly the same potential to catch up, no matter when you unlock the content. No stress, less frustration for everyone.

Win, win, win.


Of course it then comes down to how much time and effort you can put into a video game. Of course the potential is the same, but only those with more time than the others can actually meet said potential.

And so do the casuals lose.

Naturally the drop rates should reflect this sudden increase in the amount of times you can do the content. The rate of gear acquisition will not go up unless the devs want it to, and if they want it to go up then they may as well just raise the current drop rates instead of making the game more complex than it needs to be.

Edited, Dec 6th 2013 10:29pm by Hyanmen
#63 Dec 06 2013 at 5:05 PM Rating: Excellent
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How could RNG possibly ***** someone over, you wonder?

Well, let's assume CT has 4 bosses and we're right that it's 30 piece of gear only. Let's say it's 1 chest for the first 3 bosses and then 2 for the last. This puts the split at just shy 17% to see your item hit the treasure pool from its corresponding chest. This becomes an 8.5% chance to get it if you have 1 person who'd like it, too.

Basically, it's possible to go 6 or more runs to not see the specific piece you're after. And if we assume each CT run takes an hour or so, that time will add up over the week. With this stupid lockout in place, you must now forsake other potential drops people might not need because your 17% chance might finally cash in! Of course, these numbers get even worse if you start adding belts, earrings, rings, necklaces, and bracelets to the equation. In fact, that 30 pool becomes 60 and that 17% is now 8.5% before competition.

<drippingsarcarsmthesizeofaflan>Nope, RNG isn't a problem at all.</drippingsarcasmthesizeofaflan>

Good luck gearing multiple jobs in a timely manner and enjoy the delusion of casual friendliness. Exclusion never promotes cooperation.

Edit: Just because, here's a bit more math. The following would be the chance of getting an item you can Need based on other parts of the set you have and no competition and a 5 item set:

0 items: 60.7%
1 item: 52.6%
2 items: 42.9%
3 items: 31.2%
4 items: 17%

Basically, it gets harder to gear up your job more as you go, which exacerbates the issue of the weekly lockout. I'll let someone who's better at math than I average out just how many runs that'd mean. And watch out for succumbing to gambler's fallacy if you try to do it yourself.

Edited, Dec 6th 2013 6:50pm by Seriha
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#64 Dec 07 2013 at 7:41 AM Rating: Decent
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Seriha wrote:
How could RNG possibly ***** someone over, you wonder?

Well, let's assume CT has 4 bosses and we're right that it's 30 piece of gear only. Let's say it's 1 chest for the first 3 bosses and then 2 for the last. This puts the split at just shy 17% to see your item hit the treasure pool from its corresponding chest. This becomes an 8.5% chance to get it if you have 1 person who'd like it, too.

Basically, it's possible to go 6 or more runs to not see the specific piece you're after. And if we assume each CT run takes an hour or so, that time will add up over the week. With this stupid lockout in place, you must now forsake other potential drops people might not need because your 17% chance might finally cash in! Of course, these numbers get even worse if you start adding belts, earrings, rings, necklaces, and bracelets to the equation. In fact, that 30 pool becomes 60 and that 17% is now 8.5% before competition.

<drippingsarcarsmthesizeofaflan>Nope, RNG isn't a problem at all.</drippingsarcasmthesizeofaflan>

Good luck gearing multiple jobs in a timely manner and enjoy the delusion of casual friendliness. Exclusion never promotes cooperation.

Edit: Just because, here's a bit more math. The following would be the chance of getting an item you can Need based on other parts of the set you have and no competition and a 5 item set:

0 items: 60.7%
1 item: 52.6%
2 items: 42.9%
3 items: 31.2%
4 items: 17%

Basically, it gets harder to gear up your job more as you go, which exacerbates the issue of the weekly lockout. I'll let someone who's better at math than I average out just how many runs that'd mean. And watch out for succumbing to gambler's fallacy if you try to do it yourself.


You speak of gearing up multiple jobs but only use gearing up one job in your example. Because you can Greed an item while playing any job, you can easily use this to your advantage by playing another job when you get up to 3-4 items on the first job. While the chance to Greed the last piece on a single run is small, cumulatively the chance to Greed your 5th item increase the more runs you do on the multiple jobs you have. This is true especially when the end of the current content cycle is coming close as the players have had 3+ months to gear up their class(es). Cases where other players are after a single piece increase giving other players a better chance to Greed more items.

Essentially when the chances of you obtaining a desired item by Need decrease the chances to Greed the item increase.

<drippingsarcarsmthesizeofamolborger>is this kind of snarky commentary really necessary? I'm sorry if I've offended you.<drippingsarcarsmthesizeofamolborger>

I'm just saying you're not taking Greed into account at all, even though its usefulness increases by a wide margin the longer the current cycle has been in place. You're also not taking into account that your other classes will keep your probability percentages up for a long time into the cycle.

Interestingly you're also advocating the "if I don't get the one specific item I don't get anything at all" mentality and that's cool, but a relevant question is whether this kind of mentality is something a casual would embrace in the first place. The one specific item may give you +1% more value in comparison to other pieces but a casual can ask him or herself whether it is worth it to lock oneself up to such an extreme mindset. You can forsake other potential drops to be able to lot on the One Ring but you can also not do that. This should be obvious but you are stating that a person "must" do something so it needs to be mentioned. That's nothing but a single playing philosophy among many.

Either way an hour+ a day (in the worst case scenario) does not sound like something a casual can't handle.
#65 Dec 07 2013 at 12:21 PM Rating: Excellent
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Need and Greed gets locked out on one item's acquisition. If anything, Greed ups potential competition and diminishes your chance for every player that participates in the roll. It will be best to play on the job you want to gear in part due to the 2 tank, 2 healer, 4 dps dynamic for full parties, especially as a DPS.

I mentioned AK gear earlier for a reason, as well as Abyssea within XI and just how generous the effort:reward ratios were. When things are more accessible, even Greed doesn't seem as greedy as time goes on. The prior sentiment on Need still applies here, of course, but there's far, far, far less pressure on getting the item you really want RIGHT NOW because the 604800 second clock ticking down the moment JP midnight hits on our Monday wouldn't be present. Instead, you just participate in the content and get the replayability you individually wish of it.

Personal progress, the progress of friends, and killing time are the only reasons to participate in content. These may overlap, yes, but the first two can and are finite with repetition being the enemy of the last. Forcing this out into greater periods of time isn't to our benefit. It isn't even to the dev's benefit despite the assertion it helps give us something to do until the next content block. People complain now because AK, WP, and a once a week BC aren't really endgame content. And there's no open world endgame content. People have legit gripes no matter how much the, "Well, you shouldn't have rushed!" wagon pipes up with incredibly flimsy reasoning. The people also unhappy now, even if you just put them in the 10-25% "in endgame" range of SE's estimated 1.5m players, don't have much to gain with this restriction in place. It's still pretty much one main job, then DL everything else for 3+ more months. Yawn.

Quote:
Interestingly you're also advocating the "if I don't get the one specific item I don't get anything at all" mentality and that's cool, but a relevant question is whether this kind of mentality is something a casual would embrace in the first place.

You know that thing I said about demonizing chasing the carrot? You're doing it. Even a casual falls into the 3 categories I mentioned earlier. Even they will want something to show for their time eventually. They can also roll Need just like everyone else.
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#66 Dec 07 2013 at 4:08 PM Rating: Good
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svlyons wrote:
Hyrist wrote:
WARNING, GIGANTIC WALL OF TEXT INCOMING!

But it's a wall made up of reasonably sized bricks of text, like a good wall should be. More forum post walls should be built this way.


Nashred wrote:
Hairspray wrote:
deniswriter wrote:
I was better than many of the other WHMs...


Maybe this is part of your problem... WHM is not as much fun in this game, for whatever reason it's quite a difficult job if the group is not over-geared.

I was a 75 WHM in FFXI for years, an end-game healer for Sky, Sea, Dynamis, etc... And I have played my fiance's toon a few times recently to help her advance and it's no freaking joke.

I kind of hate WHM in FFXIV actually, I'm glad I decided not to be a healer in this game. If I were to be one, I'd probably go SCH.

Try changing it up, maybe BLM or SMN if you can put up with slightly longer queue times... I just do some crafting or gathering while I'm queued so I barely notice as a DRG.



Aint that the truth... Way different than FFXI...

I can always tell within 30 seconds of a fight how it is going to go, mainly by how much the tank is getting hit for.. If they are under geared I am thinking we are going to be fighting for our life the whole way. Undergeared DPS also can be a issue and of coarse the WHM needs proper gear. Gear in this game make a much bigger difference. People like to blame everyone especially the healer but allot of times it is a under geared tank that is the issue. We only get so much mp and only cast spells so fast and their is nothing we can do about that.

Yea I loved whm in FFXI but not as much in this game. it heal, heal, heal occasional ensuna. Not as much to do in FFXIV but if there was it would be really ruff...



Edited, Dec 5th 2013 10:25am by Nashred



I donno.. I haven't played healer in FFXIV, but I have a lot of..horror stories on RDM and SCH. I just don't think nothing can possibly be worse than imp parties. Many many times I came close to quitting the game due to those.
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FFXI character: Elathia ::F Tarutaru::87SCH/75RDM/70WHM/54BLM::Cerberus/Ragnarok/Bahamut::1/23/2004 - 3/25/2015 :: Retired
RDM First 75 Job :: RDM Maat victory: March 28, 2008 (1/3) :: San d'Oria R10 Long live King Destin :: Praise be to the late King Ranperre.
FFXIV character: Selene Silverstorm :: F Lalafell :: WAR60/WHM60/BLM60 :: Ragnarok :: 9/2013 -
Patch note archives for FFXIV: http://na.finalfantasyxiv.com/lodestone/special/patchnote_log/
#67 Dec 07 2013 at 4:11 PM Rating: Decent
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Seriha wrote:
LebargeX wrote:
Seriha wrote:
Not gonna lie, CT's week-long lockout for loot took a lot of wind out of my sails. On one end being a relic BLM, then at best, pretty much DL everything else makes me wonder what the point is.

Point?

Not everyone online is 50 and decked out
Not everyone who will ever play ffxiv is playing it
Fun
Excitement
Other jobs

Content has a life span for me. I've never been shy in expressing that opinion. And if me wanting loot for my reasonable efforts subsequently makes me a loot *****, then I'll accept that accusation, too. This is pretty much me saying that if I wanted to take LNC up, I could have it on par with my BLM, if not a smidge weaker after a few weeks. These lock outs pretty much assure that that can't happen and spreads it out to months. And in part at the expense of my BLM's growth, to boot.

So, let's say I got a piece of gear for the week. What's the point of me going again and incurring durability loss, thus a gil expense, for nothing tangible. Fun, you say? Will that be the case 10 weeks from now after we've possibly run it dozens of times? Odds are I would've run it with my friends to begin with, too. I really can't emphasize enough how much I @#%^ing hate time gating, though. And I'm honestly sick of MMOs believing that we, as players, like it, too. We may know why it's there, as content certainly takes time to develop, but then this leads to the inevitable question of whether or not our money's actually being put to its best use for the game first, and then SE's other ventures.

I'm not a hardcore no-lifer, but I hate being held back just because. And this isn't even their pinnacle content like BC. I'm tired of condoning this crap with flimsy excuses like it's the RMT's fault or people won't play nice with each other. I hope enough ***** about this and Yoshi waffles in the 2 weeks we have before patch. I'd be more tolerant of once a day, as I'm sure many others would be. But if stays at 1 week? Why should I be excited? Why should I not expect more of the same in the future?


Seems the difference between a "white knight" and a "troll" is 2 months playtime. Who knew?

Seriha wrote:
Grumpy hardcores burnt themselves out? Ya don't say. Be careful in assuming your opinion is the majority just because a few posters elsewhere happened to agree with you. I find myself reminded of all the pro Rift players who loved to claim everyone had max Planar Attunement (merits) only for Daglar to come out and say only 0.03% of the player base had that in a live stream. Happy players will actually be playing. Some people even outright avoid forums due to elitist mentalities, unsolicited mockery, and unreasonable expectation if they even have the time to waste browsing them.

Yes, end game is a grind. That's true in every @#%^ing MMO, honestly. 2.1 will add some more content, that's pretty much been guaranteed. Or are we just going to fall into the trap that a game less than a month old needs to have the same amount of content as one 10+ years old? Because as many outlined on the XIV board here within your "small world" ***** thread, XI didn't exactly start out a glamorous potpourri of content, either.

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#68 Dec 07 2013 at 4:57 PM Rating: Excellent
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You're reaching a bit to twist my words, there. Nonetheless, it is possible for a dev team to make a decision later on in a game's lifespan that can influence a critique for the benefit of the game (not trolling). Despite my discontent, you don't see me saying XIV will die in 6 months like you championed repeatedly (trolling). Is it my fault for hoping SE might've done better between August and now? Perhaps.

Here's the thing. The PA thing mentioned in quotes? The situation is actually reversed. In Rift's case, you had the hardcores dictating what the casuals could or couldn't due based on a grind. Now you have casuals attempting to dictate to the hardcores, or at least those further ahead the progress chain, with these lockouts by invoking a worst case scenario. Both are uncool. I am white knighting giving the people choice to play as they choose. If they burn themselves out and *****? I am still quite confident in saying they're a vocal minority there. Everyone else plays as normal? More likely than you think. But understand, even if I am closer to the minority with my play style and time, I'm not telling people they can't progress.

Fair access to content goes both ways. And unlocked CT would still be a grind. Believe it.
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#69 Dec 08 2013 at 7:21 AM Rating: Excellent
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Am I the only one that wants them to keep replying to Seriha, just so I can keep reading what Seriha has to say? :P
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FFXI character: Elathia ::F Tarutaru::87SCH/75RDM/70WHM/54BLM::Cerberus/Ragnarok/Bahamut::1/23/2004 - 3/25/2015 :: Retired
RDM First 75 Job :: RDM Maat victory: March 28, 2008 (1/3) :: San d'Oria R10 Long live King Destin :: Praise be to the late King Ranperre.
FFXIV character: Selene Silverstorm :: F Lalafell :: WAR60/WHM60/BLM60 :: Ragnarok :: 9/2013 -
Patch note archives for FFXIV: http://na.finalfantasyxiv.com/lodestone/special/patchnote_log/
#70 Dec 08 2013 at 11:54 AM Rating: Excellent
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I can't decide if I should be happy or sad about that. :P
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#71 Dec 12 2013 at 3:22 PM Rating: Decent
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Yea I'm not at 50 yet either. My highest are WHM at mid 46 and BLM at 43 (I think). Nothing is at 50 yet, but I'm having fun. Running FATE'S and doing Leves. I'm actually thinking of unlocking everything and get all classes to 15 at least. I haven't unlocked 3 DoW jobs yet, so I will get to see what that is like eventually. And guess what, I DON'T PLAY EVERY DAY..(SHOCK). So in a way I feel that is why I'm nowhere burned out yet. I'm anxious to try end game content, but I'm in no hurry.
#72 Dec 12 2013 at 4:06 PM Rating: Decent
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Scrap that.

:/

Edited, Dec 13th 2013 9:45am by Gnu
#73 Dec 12 2013 at 4:17 PM Rating: Excellent
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Gnu wrote:
qfmkigqe wrote:
I'm actually thinking of unlocking everything and get all classes to 15 at least.
Locations of NPC's that instantly level jobs to 15 (after main company quest is complete):

I thought that was just for beta?

Edited, Dec 12th 2013 5:17pm by Yelta
#76 Aug 18 2014 at 1:38 PM Rating: Good
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Isn't a double necropost as a first action from a trolling sock a sign of the Apocalypse? I think that hits pretty much every factor, including the massive quote and one-line answer.

Kinda cool, actually, when you think about it. Smiley: smile

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#77 Aug 18 2014 at 2:08 PM Rating: Excellent
Oldschoolgamer39 wrote:
Dyadem, pet mage of Jabober wrote:
deniswriter wrote:
The other problem I had with this game was that for an average player, endgame was just way too hard for me as a healer. I never made it past Titan HM even after about a month of trying it maybe 6-8 times a week in PUGS.
STOP DOING PUGS


I was a long time member of FFXI and no matter what Linkshell I seemed to join, there was a camaraderie and usually 2 or 3 guys shouting out what to do to first timers in Dynamis or SKY and it was fun as ****. I joined 5 linkshells in FFXIV in 2 months and basically none of them had any kind of cohesiveness to learn together, despite several of them having over 100 members.
Do you know that a Linkshell is only a small chatroom?? Why didn't you join a Free Company with a dedicated core group of players, and use the LS system for small numbers of close friends? As I beleive it was intended that way (FC is a Guild ... LS is a glorifited buddy chat)

As for me, I'll keep trying each new MMO that comes out until I find the right fit. Best of luck to all of you! Gypsy Healer.
Sorry, but maybe that's for the best..
If you are the type of person to jump MMO's frequently, and bail out when one becomes too much of a grind, then yeah.



Edited, Dec 3rd 2013 3:04pm by Dyadem


and this is from a person who doesn't play ff14 after i looked up your profile you have WoW info not FF14 info.. lv.62 gnome? really??? stupid troll..


I don't normally respond to idiotic posts... but perhaps You don't know, This is a Multi-Game website. That's right! Other games exist. I know its a shock to me too, that people can play or have played more than one game in their lifetime.

Laverda wrote:
Isn't a double necropost as a first action from a trolling sock a sign of the Apocalypse? I think that hits pretty much every factor, including the massive quote and one-line answer.

Kinda cool, actually, when you think about it. Smiley: smile


Yeah they really put me in my place...it's a good thing I have anti-burn cream.


Edited, Aug 18th 2014 3:14pm by Dyadem
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