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IS THIS the current state of mmo's too?Follow

#1 Dec 10 2013 at 11:58 AM Rating: Decent
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I remember a whole ago when we had a discussion about how MMOs used to have explorable none instanced dungeons, and how progression took a lot longer was more harder and as such seemed more rewarding when you finally DID complete it (examples being CoP in FFXI prenerf and obtaining relic in FFXI as opposed to XIVs relic), with super rare items that were either so rare pr so hard to get that youd be lucky if you saw 10% of the players on the server with them (i.e nothing of which fits that description in FFXIV)

and basically everyone response summed up too, that was old and archaic and not how mmos are done now... that was the old way and will never be seen again and this is the new way (which in a random note I figured elder scrolls online would "save" the genre by going back to some of the old ways... I was saddened to find out a game known for its VAST worlds and exploration will have instanced dungeons too..)

Anyway I new conversation came up at work yesterday regarding FFXIV (yup 755 of us at work play ffxiv and mmos in general yet like none of us are on the same server lol) I made a comment along the lines of "I remember when MMOs used to have ACTUAL NEW content" (for example in FFXI sky, sea, dynamis, limbus, einherjar, salvage, assault, etc etc) as opposed to "new" content just being harder versions of preexisting content and calling it "new" (i.e ifrit.garuda/titan normal/hard and now EXTREME.. what next... ultra? then super saiyajin? lol) or copperbell mines and hakkue manor hard... aside from treasure hunt and crystal tower and wolves den the rest is just hard versions or old stuff (dont say duty roulette as thats more of a new feature not new content)


but anyway back on point.. his reply was, "thats the new state of MMOs, now, recycling/rehashing old content. Even WoW does it" to which I say "I would expect that from an F2P mmo but one that has a million ppl paying 15 bucks a month surely they can afford REAL new content. After all content is what separates a P2P from an F2P mmo.. just look at how "often" GW2 and DC universe online get new stuff. If rehashed old content is what I wanted I can get that from DCUO free and not pay a dime" but he instsist that thats just the way MMOs are now... sooo you guys tell me.. Is he corrrect or incorrect?
#2 Dec 10 2013 at 12:16 PM Rating: Good
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Maybe you haven't had a chance to check out the previews, but the next patch is adding quite a bit of brand new content besides just the couple of additional difficulty levels for some current content.

We're getting the game's first raid instance, a new light party instance, a new primal battle, new pvp system, and new player housing too. None of which is in the game currently.

I'm not sure how you group plays, but I still feel a sense of accomplishment every time we clear a turn of coil. Well, maybe not the third turn, but every other turn.

Sky and Sea didn't just happen in the first major patch after game release. It was years and multiple paid expansions later before they introduced all the content in XI.

Lots of people think they're nostalgic for the old grind of FFXI/EQ and even early WoW, but that system sucked even then. Who really wants to spend another week of their life camping an NM for 1% drop rates, when you can play games where you actually accomplish things.

Edited, Dec 10th 2013 1:19pm by DomfranciscoOfIfrit
#3 Dec 10 2013 at 12:24 PM Rating: Excellent
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DuoMaxwellxx wrote:
Anyway I new conversation came up at work yesterday regarding FFXIV (yup 755 of us at work play ffxiv and mmos in general yet like none of us are on the same server lol) I made a comment along the lines of "I remember when MMOs used to have ACTUAL NEW content" (for example in FFXI sky, sea, dynamis, limbus, einherjar, salvage, assault, etc etc) as opposed to "new" content just being harder versions of preexisting content and calling it "new" (i.e ifrit.garuda/titan normal/hard and now EXTREME.. what next... ultra? then super saiyajin? lol) or copperbell mines and hakkue manor hard... aside from treasure hunt and crystal tower and wolves den the rest is just hard versions or old stuff (dont say duty roulette as thats more of a new feature not new content)

Sky: part of a new expansion
Sea: part of a new expansion
Dynamis: not sure if this was part of Zilart or not
Limbus: part of a new expansion
Einherjar: part of a new expansion
Salvage: part of a new expansion
Assault: part of a new expansion

See the pattern? I'm trying to think of FFXI content that was added but wasn't part of an expansion. The ones I can think of were rather lackluster, stuff like Fields of Valor. New content that was added without being a part of an expansion was basically just new activities within existing zones. As such, was that really any different than Extreme Mode Primals or HM Copperbell/Haukke? Even BCNMs were just new mobs in an existing battle field, which is basically the same thing that we're getting with HM Copperbell and Haukke.
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#4 Dec 10 2013 at 12:25 PM Rating: Excellent
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There is a big difference between a patch and an expansion. Tu'lia was part of an expansion, you see. I wonder what would happen if you were to look at 11 before RotZ. What would you find?

This 'patch' probably is about a fourth/half of what an expansion would be...which is pretty impressive since they're giving it to you for free.

I'm not a big fan of rehashed content but I actually enjoy the primal battles. Titan was the first roadblock I've met in a while playing a MMO. Having something more difficult to aim for is really what we need at the moment.

I think they changed up Haukke Manor quite a bit from the looks of it. I love the music, alone, but they seem to have retextured a lot, added things into the boss fight, etc.

Your post's content is something I thought about for a few seconds after I first heard about 'extreme' primals. But, since that isn't the focus of this patch, I wasn't too concerned.
#5 Dec 10 2013 at 12:29 PM Rating: Excellent
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I believe that we will see actual new content but it will be further down the road in an expansion. 2.1 is a large patch but it is still a patch and not an actual expansion. It certainly has some new content and some that is 'upgraded' rehashing of existing stuff. Most of the new stuff in 2.1 is, well not 'fluff' but not brand new progression content. I think the hard mode dungeons and extreme mode primals are there just to keep those of us who have completed most everything else busy until 2.2.

I am hoping against hope we eventually get an expansion that includes more openworld content. I wrote about it years ago how I don't mind instanced content when it is a trial balanced to challenge a player or a party. Much of the feeling of adventuring is lost when you can just tele 2 minutes from everywhere and anything worth doing is done in a 4-8 man instance that up queue up for in duty finder.

That and half of the BIS equipment is easily farmable if you play for a few hours a couple times a week. Even Relic +1 is commonly seen. Having all the relics isn't even rare. Also we all look the same. I would kill for a long questline or rare mob spawn that would drop something that was a side grade but visually striking as long as it was rare.

My dream expansion would be a vast new continent where tele crystals were rare and you needed a party to even travel somewhat safely to get to a fate or dungeon entrance. The dungeon itself would be openworld with NMs and such but also contain instanced battles to test your party. Then in 6 months or a year or whatever let us quest to build new teleport crystals and when the new expansion hits nerf the whole thing so everyone who wasn't up to the challenge can enjoy it.

I know its not going to happen since so many people would hate it but I can dream.

Edited, Dec 10th 2013 1:30pm by Yelta
#6 Dec 10 2013 at 12:41 PM Rating: Good
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Duo obviously stopped playing FFXI before they introduced:

- Neo Nyzul Isle (hard mode)
- Salvage II (hard mode)
- Ultima and Omega (hard mode)
- Arch Dynamis Lord (DL hard mode)

Heck, I think we just got Hard Mode BCNMs in the last patch in XI.

Edited, Dec 10th 2013 1:44pm by Catwho
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#7 Dec 10 2013 at 1:03 PM Rating: Excellent
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I played DCUO for 2 years and was a legendary subscriber (Not F2P) the entire time... and trust me when I tell you they rehashed the same content over and over as well...

It's the same with all MMO's.



Edited, Dec 10th 2013 2:03pm by Hairspray
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#8 Dec 10 2013 at 1:10 PM Rating: Good
Remember that time, in Everquest, when you had to wait weeks, maybe months.. to catch that 1 spawn for your epic, that was usually perma camped? The one that would take most people 1 hit to kill?

That's why we have a new state of MMO's.
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#9 Dec 10 2013 at 1:33 PM Rating: Default
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Dyadem, pet mage of Jabober wrote:
Remember that time, in Everquest, when you had to wait weeks, maybe months.. to catch that 1 spawn for your epic, that was usually perma camped? The one that would take most people 1 hit to kill?

That's why we have a new state of MMO's.



i actually liked that tbh lol.. if i had to wait months to get something maybe only 49 other ppl on a server for 5000 had.. then Im all for it
#10 Dec 10 2013 at 1:35 PM Rating: Default
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Catwho wrote:
Duo obviously stopped playing FFXI before they introduced:

- Neo Nyzul Isle (hard mode)
- Salvage II (hard mode)
- Ultima and Omega (hard mode)
- Arch Dynamis Lord (DL hard mode)

Heck, I think we just got Hard Mode BCNMs in the last patch in XI.

Edited, Dec 10th 2013 1:44pm by Catwho



oh gawd tell me youre joking.. yeah i stopped long before that bt even if those exist there probably within new content (i.e abyssea) even then FFXI got 7-8 years of REAL new content before the hard mode rehashes started sooo I dont see an issue in that case
#11 Dec 10 2013 at 1:37 PM Rating: Default
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Hairspray wrote:
I played DCUO for 2 years and was a legendary subscriber (Not F2P) the entire time... and trust me when I tell you they rehashed the same content over and over as well...

It's the same with all MMO's.



Edited, Dec 10th 2013 2:03pm by Hairspray



i know DCUO hjas rehashed content galore... but that game is also F2P and like they ssay "you get what you pay for" so in that games case I understand and expect it... in an P2P game however.. I do not
#12 Dec 10 2013 at 1:38 PM Rating: Good
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You know, things like CoP weren't all that great in FFXI. Remember that data SE released that said a depressingly low percentage of players actually completed that content? That's not good game design, that's ensuring that your playerbase never expands beyond "hard core" and those who like the series\their friends enough not to care that they can't see content.

There is going to be some degree of repetition in a game. There will always be an antagonist with some chip on his\her shoulder, and you will always have to go through xyz to get to that fight. The fight mechanics are always fresh, though, and map design is seldom reused unless it's related to an earlier instance. If what your friend is talking about is the inclusion of older dungeons in 5 man heroic mode, that's there because the players actually asked for it. So yes, this expansion we got to see Sholomance, Scarlet Halls, and Scarlet Monastery again alongside the five other brand new dungeons. They did the same thing last Xpac with Deadmines (much to everyone's... amusement\frustration).

As long as blizzard keeps the current balance of old content reuse and new content release (and there was wayyyy more new content than recycled) I don't really see the issue. Square will likely do the same thing as well once XIV has the base to pull from. Heck, they could probably even dip further into XI's stuff as time goes on and more people migrate to the new one.
#13 Dec 10 2013 at 1:44 PM Rating: Decent
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Torrence wrote:
You know, things like CoP weren't all that great in FFXI. Remember that data SE released that said a depressingly low percentage of players actually completed that content?

Except nothing else ever gave me quite as much satisfaction to complete each and every step. From building the parties to executing the fights well. The amount of preparation involved in making sure you were appropriately geared for your level cap and obtaining the best food and items to get you through the fight. Modifying the strategy since I had a non-optimum set of classes alone was a struggle and a triumph.

The rush of pulling off a win and taking that first step into new zone... Literally brought tears to my eyes.

Then doing it again to get friends through :D

Edited, Dec 10th 2013 2:45pm by Yelta
#14 Dec 10 2013 at 1:47 PM Rating: Decent
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svlyons wrote:
DuoMaxwellxx wrote:
Anyway I new conversation came up at work yesterday regarding FFXIV (yup 755 of us at work play ffxiv and mmos in general yet like none of us are on the same server lol) I made a comment along the lines of "I remember when MMOs used to have ACTUAL NEW content" (for example in FFXI sky, sea, dynamis, limbus, einherjar, salvage, assault, etc etc) as opposed to "new" content just being harder versions of preexisting content and calling it "new" (i.e ifrit.garuda/titan normal/hard and now EXTREME.. what next... ultra? then super saiyajin? lol) or copperbell mines and hakkue manor hard... aside from treasure hunt and crystal tower and wolves den the rest is just hard versions or old stuff (dont say duty roulette as thats more of a new feature not new content)

Sky: part of a new expansion
Sea: part of a new expansion
Dynamis: not sure if this was part of Zilart or not
Limbus: part of a new expansion
Einherjar: part of a new expansion
Salvage: part of a new expansion
Assault: part of a new expansion

See the pattern? I'm trying to think of FFXI content that was added but wasn't part of an expansion. The ones I can think of were rather lackluster, stuff like Fields of Valor. New content that was added without being a part of an expansion was basically just new activities within existing zones. As such, was that really any different than Extreme Mode Primals or HM Copperbell/Haukke? Even BCNMs were just new mobs in an existing battle field, which is basically the same thing that we're getting with HM Copperbell and Haukke.




fine then.. you make a valid point. we'll have this conversation again when an expanion does hit (which im hoping is at the end of the year of 2014 lol.. after all ffxi got them yearly) te only point you made that is lacking however is while all that stuff is from an expanion they werent in the expansion day one out of the box.. they were added overtime via content PATCHES (that were free)... for example while Sea and Limnbus required CoP... Sea was accessible far before limbus..... Also Zilart was boxed with the EU and US relases of FFXI.. though dynamis didnt exist on day one... that also came later... point is if dynamis and limbus cold be added via patch why would we have to wait for an expansion to see the likes of such things?


And even then FFXI pre expansions still had a slight bit more things to do (and a bigger world) than FFXIV.. I mean aside from lvling jobs/classes what else is there to do on FFXIv endgame aside from:

AK/WP
Coils
maybe arm primals for weapons


thats three things... 1 o which can only be done (technically) once a week so after you get that done in a few hours you have the rest of the day plus 6 more days in hat week where a 3 thing list is now a 2 thing list. Please tell me im missing something.

At least camping those bad drop ate having overcamped Nms would give you something to do for the rest of the weke until coils and myth tome cap (which i honestly thing should be done away with entire;y) reset. Or make more group based content (i.e change the none dungeon related story and job quests from solo to group) so you can help out newbies while you have nothing better to do for the rest of the week
#15 Dec 10 2013 at 1:55 PM Rating: Excellent
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DuoMaxwellxx wrote:
Dyadem, pet mage of Jabober wrote:
Remember that time, in Everquest, when you had to wait weeks, maybe months.. to catch that 1 spawn for your epic, that was usually perma camped? The one that would take most people 1 hit to kill?

That's why we have a new state of MMO's.

i actually liked that tbh lol.. if i had to wait months to get something maybe only 49 other ppl on a server for 5000 had.. then Im all for it

Walking 6 miles through snow uphill both ways might be your idea of fun. Don't be surprised that you're probably in the minority.

DuoMaxwellxx wrote:
fine then.. you make a valid point. we'll have this conversation again when an expanion does hit

You make it sound like "wait and see" is something you only do grudgingly.
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#16 Dec 10 2013 at 2:02 PM Rating: Default
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Torrence wrote:
You know, things like CoP weren't all that great in FFXI. Remember that data SE released that said a depressingly low percentage of players actually completed that content? That's not good game design, that's ensuring that your playerbase never expands beyond "hard core" and those who like the series\their friends enough not to care that they can't see content.



your friends can see that content.... its as simple as helping them get through it? or maybe when its 5 years old theyll dumb it down and or uncap it so those ppl who couldn't get through it can do it now.


Theres nothing better than the sens of joy/accomplishment (and relief) that washes over you after youve beaten an enemy youve lost too about 50 times (every promyvion fight lol), even more so knowing you did it without the optimal/"required" setups as a big "f you" to ppl who shout and claim you NEED certain jobs to do xxx. Sure certain jobs may have mad my 50 attempt fight only take 5 but the fact of the matter was they werent NEEDED if in the end it got done without. (especially since everyone in my group refused to lvl jobs they didnt care about just to us once to make certain content easier... especially in FFXI where you couldnt lvl a job from 1 to lets say 50 in a matter of hours pr days at the time... that would meant spending weeks if not months redoing... when that time coulda been spend redoing the fight and coming up with plans/strategies that worked for us lol).


I mean you ever beat a boss in demon/dark souls (which no one complains about that game being too hard core in fact ot gets PRAISED for it... and considering its getting sequels it must be making enough money off ppl to do so which means its hard coreness isnt alienating a substantial amount of ppl that only a small handful are buying it... otherwise theyd dumb it down to appeal to a broader audience to make more money right? infact they do the opposite they set out the make the sequels HARDER than what came before it lol) after getting your *** handed to you multiple times only to finally beat it and get the feeling, that the ONLY reason you pulled through is because you used every ounce of your skill, and concentration and the game wanst gonna let you get passed without giving anything less than your 100%. I love that feeling of accomplishment.

But anyway this thread isnt about hard content vs easy this is about brand new content vs rehashed old content
#17 Dec 10 2013 at 2:13 PM Rating: Decent
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Torrence wrote:
You know, things like CoP weren't all that great in FFXI. Remember that data SE released that said a depressingly low percentage of players actually completed that content? That's not good game design, that's ensuring that your playerbase never expands beyond "hard core" and those who like the series\their friends enough not to care that they can't see content.


Yeah this is what a lot of people don't understand. These "take forever", "gated to ****", and other mindlessly pointless restrictions don't inspire people to engage in content and if they're not actively engaging in content you put out (or you've purposely attempted to make it so difficult/frustrating that they don'e even bother trying anymore) then they don't play, and you don't get their money.

For all the hype the story gets (I preferred WotG's as it's more emotionally stimulating if you actually finish the whole thing), CoP didn't really add anything useful to the game. The zones were, except for CLanding, Bibiki Bay, and the Isle, gated behind missions but didn't really give the common person a reason to go after. A good handful of them were level capped and not suited to level in due to monster choices and parties just went back to normal leveling/meriting areas until ToAU launched with squishy Tucan Sams.

And a lot of people forget that. WotG wasn't a terrific expansion either but at least there were several areas parties would form up for fairly regularly with no gating at all, whereas CoP purposely went out of the way to be annoying for not real reward.

Torrence wrote:
As long as blizzard keeps the current balance of old content reuse and new content release (and there was wayyyy more new content than recycled) I don't really see the issue. Square will likely do the same thing as well once XIV has the base to pull from. Heck, they could probably even dip further into XI's stuff as time goes on and more people migrate to the new one.


Plus, FFXIV is also at an advantage in that it has a ton of games to pull from in terms of design and choices whereas WoW pretty much only has its own past to pull from.
#18DuoMaxwellxx, Posted: Dec 10 2013 at 2:15 PM, Rating: Sub-Default, (Expand Post) Nope the act itself is far from fun.... but wha tyou gain from it and the sense of accomplishment is what make it worh it.
#19 Dec 10 2013 at 2:15 PM Rating: Excellent
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DuoMaxwellxx wrote:
And even then FFXI pre expansions still had a slight bit more things to do (and a bigger world) than FFXIV.

You are delusional. The only end game content FFXI had before any expansions was Upper Delkfut's Tower.
#20 Dec 10 2013 at 2:15 PM Rating: Excellent
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DuoMaxwellxx wrote:
Catwho wrote:
Duo obviously stopped playing FFXI before they introduced:

- Neo Nyzul Isle (hard mode)
- Salvage II (hard mode)
- Ultima and Omega (hard mode)
- Arch Dynamis Lord (DL hard mode)

Heck, I think we just got Hard Mode BCNMs in the last patch in XI.


oh gawd tell me youre joking.. yeah i stopped long before that bt even if those exist there probably within new content (i.e abyssea) even then FFXI got 7-8 years of REAL new content before the hard mode rehashes started sooo I dont see an issue in that case


Nope. All those were straight up additions to their original existing content. You can either pick original Nyzul Isle or Hard Mode Nzyul Isle (which was actually a challenge and kind of mean since it relies on the random number generator... get from floors 1-100 in 30 minutes? Better hope you jump 11 floors at a time each time...) Dynamis had a complete overhaul last year and is nothing like it was before. Entry time dropped from twice a week to once a day. Time inside zone soft capped at 1 hour, hard capped at two hours with time extension. Original Dynamis Lord still killable for storyline purposes and an extra 100 coin - hard mode Dynamis Lord required for level 99 relic upgrades.

Did some of the new "hard mode" BCNMs last night. Lots of fun, even if the ninja Yagudo blew up and killed us.
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#21DuoMaxwellxx, Posted: Dec 10 2013 at 2:23 PM, Rating: Sub-Default, (Expand Post) roflmao what is upper delkfutts couldas even been considered "endgame"?
#22 Dec 10 2013 at 2:40 PM Rating: Default
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I dont like the primal's HM for end game they are just more annoying not actually harder.
I dont mind the dungeons at all but having to run them so many times ugggg. People say that FFXI had grind.. Running WP so many times aint any different.

Fates are another grind.

I like dynamis back in the day when it required LS to play together as large group, this game does not do that and it needs that.
I also realize this game is still new and will get better. But I am not going to defend everything about this game either. Right now end game is not great...

End game needs more imagination and needs to different from 1-50 leveling and it is not. It more dungeons and primal fights made more annoying. Dynamis was something completely different from anything else done in the game up too that point.

Now I am not saying this game is all bad either I had allot of fun going from 1-50... End game not so much so far.

Hope the new content is good... and looks pretty good I just dont know how much is really there and how long it will take to complete.






Edited, Dec 10th 2013 3:49pm by Nashred
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#23 Dec 10 2013 at 3:03 PM Rating: Good
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DuoMaxwellxx wrote:
Hairspray wrote:
I played DCUO for 2 years and was a legendary subscriber (Not F2P) the entire time... and trust me when I tell you they rehashed the same content over and over as well...

It's the same with all MMO's.



Edited, Dec 10th 2013 2:03pm by Hairspray



i know DCUO hjas rehashed content galore... but that game is also F2P and like they ssay "you get what you pay for" so in that games case I understand and expect it... in an P2P game however.. I do not


Well it started as P2P, and I paid the entire 2 years I played because it was worth it in my opinion... until FFXIV came out.
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#24 Dec 10 2013 at 4:54 PM Rating: Good
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On the note of expansions, I would assume that we will receive the first one in conjunction with the PS4 release. That would make sense in my opinion. If anything at least another 'major' patch.

Again, the game is still super young and honestly, we really can only speculate how the powers that be will direct it's course. I have mentioned this before, but this is there reason I am taking my time with the game.
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#25 Dec 10 2013 at 5:15 PM Rating: Default
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Hairspray wrote:
DuoMaxwellxx wrote:
Hairspray wrote:
I played DCUO for 2 years and was a legendary subscriber (Not F2P) the entire time... and trust me when I tell you they rehashed the same content over and over as well...

It's the same with all MMO's.



Edited, Dec 10th 2013 2:03pm by Hairspray



i know DCUO hjas rehashed content galore... but that game is also F2P and like they ssay "you get what you pay for" so in that games case I understand and expect it... in an P2P game however.. I do not


Well it started as P2P, and I paid the entire 2 years I played because it was worth it in my opinion... until FFXIV came out.



yeah it started as p2p an dyou see how quickly it went f2p... so unless FFXIV plans to go f2p soon (which i highly doubt) i expect MUCH more out of it than dcuo
#26 Dec 10 2013 at 5:32 PM Rating: Excellent
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I can understand the feeling of pre-nerf CoP, because I was one of the few that was actually caught up on missions as they released them. Yep, there was a time when you got to the "end" of the current progress and had to wait til the next patch to continue. It was hard as ****, took my static endless times to do it, and I stood up and screamed and pumped my fist when we took things like the mammets and U/O down. Would I want to go through farming stuff for the fights over and over, deal with constant trial and error, leveling subjobs or secondary jobs, gathering gear sets for level cap ever again? No way. The real beauty of the era was having a static and doing stuff in a small group of friends. THAT was rewarding and I would want that back.

Relics in XI? Old Dynamis? May it never return. The reason there were something like 10 relics per server pre-TOAU was because in order to have one you needed to somehow convince 30 other people to do Dynamis with you for the chance at lolAF2 while the leader pocketed the currency. I realize that some groups split the currency and that some rich crafters bought most of their own currency, but the vast majority of the whole system was 2 alliances doing an event for the benefit of 1 person. Combine that with the 72 hour lockout and the $1 million entry fee and you have one of the worst systems ever.

Exploring? Larger zones? Yep, all that was cool in XI but only for a few times. It was great being a level 20 noob trying to make your way to Jeuno or taking the boat to Selbina and stuff that most of us that played XI still remember. The reality is it IS archaic and not done anymore because it takes too **** long. Anyone remember xping in sky? or Cape Terrigan? Gather in Jeuno (1 hour), teleport (but only if you have a WHM), chocobo ride as far as you can (15 min), sneak/invis to camp (someone dies, wasted 30 min, now BRD needs to go because its been too long), finally get to camp. It was a process in and of itself just to get a decent party, much less an ideal party, and then if you get to camp and get started - you better **** well have 3 hours to xp and hope no one else comes to camp on top of you.
#27 Dec 10 2013 at 5:43 PM Rating: Decent
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Apparently some of you took a long time to hit max level or have poor memory. Dynamis was not part of an expansion, it was released between expansions with a patch to keep people interested.

Secondly if you stretch what release with an expansion means, I guess you can count sky as being released with Zilart, but it wasn't accessible for months afterward. Ro'Maeve was there the day Zilart happened, but Tu'Lia was not accessible, the story line leading to it was not completely finished and you couldn't access Ru'Aun Gardens until the next moderate sized patch a month after release of the expansion. Not only that but there were no monsters in sky when it became accessible through the storyline. I remember running around in sky and it was completely empty, people explored and mapped it with no monsters and no aggro. The day the patch came to put the monsters in sky, the place was flooded and mass death everywhere from people discovering what happens when you get too close to the blue light. So if 3 months after the release of the expansion counts as expansion content, then yes it was released with Zilart.
#28 Dec 10 2013 at 5:51 PM Rating: Decent
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i believe it "counts" as expansion content bcause even though it came later ppl witout zilart couldnt access those places.... so its "expansion congtent" because if yo ugot the game now and didn thave zilart you still couldnt go to sky
#29 Dec 10 2013 at 7:03 PM Rating: Good
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2.1 is the first patch of this particular version of XIV, so it's quite dishonest to compare it to XI as far as content amount. Where accessibility is concerned, your entire argument has a foundation of sand. There's a reason people liked the Abyssea series when it was released: accessibility to good gear without needing to recruit 50 other people to get it (the very reason Delve had fallen flat from the start). That has nothing to do with people wanting "easy mode" or some such nonsense that faux-hardcore posers blather on about. Most people who play these games want to be able to get good and great items without needless hassles.

I am very happy with the direction XIV went with relics, for example. XI's system was about as close to a hot mess as you could get even in its prime. Getting a relic weapon was near impossible then (and near pointless recently), what with having to gather Dynamis currency for years (read that again: for YEARS). Getting the Attestations would be comparable to fighting Dhorme Chimera now and fighting the weapons in Xarcabard would be nearly the same as Hydra. Both of those fights would have been satisfactory for the relic quest, but the enormous amount of currency required was a needless gateway that drove most players off. In contrast, XIV's relic system is streamlined and straightforward. Even the beast tribe leg of the quest was just right (3 specific sets of 8 beast tribe members). The only big hurdle you'd face is Titan HM and even he can be overcome with a good LS or FC.
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#30 Dec 10 2013 at 7:16 PM Rating: Excellent
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Relics in XI and relics in XIV are like apples and oranges. Relics in XI, even today, still take 50 million gil or three or four months of 2 hours of daily farming to complete - and that's just for the level 75 version. Level 75-95 relics in XI now require Trial of the Magian fights, and 95-99 requires another 25 million gil or an 18 man alliance doing a fight that takes a full day of prep in Xarcabard (Arch Dyna Lord) five times just for you. (Friggin Umbrals.)

Your XIV relic did not cost you 75 million gil or take six months.

Don't be surprised if SE adds in a weapon that does at some point in time, to satisfy the hard-core crowd.
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#31 Dec 10 2013 at 7:44 PM Rating: Excellent
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In FFXI, patches were, more often then not, a lot of fixes to the system. I'd say XIV is doing a lot more than what the patches were in XI. I remember a lot of them being adjustments to jobs and that would be it. If XIV keeps up with this pace, their patches (over the course of a year), could very well equate that of an expansion. 2.1 is going to add quite a bit, which I'm excited about.

You're wanting XIV to have the same content that XI has. That's not going to happen when you count in the expansions and mini-expansions. I can see how hard it can be to transition from XI to XIV on that aspect, but if that's what you're wanting and hoping for. Feel free to stop by in 5 or so years.
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#32 Dec 10 2013 at 9:05 PM Rating: Excellent
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Projectstfu wrote:
Secondly if you stretch what release with an expansion means, I guess you can count sky as being released with Zilart, but it wasn't accessible for months afterward.

It's not a stretch at all, considering a) SE had a habit of releasing unfinished expansions, and b) you absolutely had to have the expansion (Zilart) to access sky. If you have to have the expansion to access content, then the content is part of that expansion, even if it wasn't available until several months after the expansion released.
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#33 Dec 10 2013 at 10:26 PM Rating: Excellent
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Projectstfu wrote:
Secondly if you stretch what release with an expansion means, I guess you can count sky as being released with Zilart, but it wasn't accessible for months afterward. Ro'Maeve was there the day Zilart happened, but Tu'Lia was not accessible, the story line leading to it was not completely finished and you couldn't access Ru'Aun Gardens until the next moderate sized patch a month after release of the expansion. Not only that but there were no monsters in sky when it became accessible through the storyline. I remember running around in sky and it was completely empty, people explored and mapped it with no monsters and no aggro. The day the patch came to put the monsters in sky, the place was flooded and mass death everywhere from people discovering what happens when you get too close to the blue light. So if 3 months after the release of the expansion counts as expansion content, then yes it was released with Zilart.


As svlyons pointed out, this is invalid.

Projectstfu wrote:
Apparently some of you took a long time to hit max level or have poor memory. Dynamis was not part of an expansion, it was released between expansions with a patch to keep people interested.


This was after FFXI had gone through multiple patches AND had been out for more than a year. This is 14's first major patch and they're already releasing new content. I'd say this puts them a little farther ahead in terms of progression. But that's not a fair comparison: MMOs have come a long way and developers have learned some things over the years.

In fact, CT is the equivalent of dynamis. However, CT has taken all of dynamis' bad points out and chucked them out the window. You don't need the 60 some odd people to get anywhere (realistically, more like 30-40), you don't have a lockout the entire week and can pursue a piece of gear you want as many times as you wish, and it's set in such a way that requires little organization for FC leaders.

Edited, Dec 13th 2013 1:29pm by HitomeOfBismarck
#34 Dec 10 2013 at 11:09 PM Rating: Default
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Catwho wrote:
Relics in XI and relics in XIV are like apples and oranges. Relics in XI, even today, still take 50 million gil or three or four months of 2 hours of daily farming to complete - and that's just for the level 75 version. Level 75-95 relics in XI now require Trial of the Magian fights, and 95-99 requires another 25 million gil or an 18 man alliance doing a fight that takes a full day of prep in Xarcabard (Arch Dyna Lord) five times just for you. (Friggin Umbrals.)

Your XIV relic did not cost you 75 million gil or take six months.

Don't be surprised if SE adds in a weapon that does at some point in time, to satisfy the hard-core crowd.




youre FFXIV relic (unlike XI relic when 75 was the cap) also doenst seem SUBSTANTIALLY different and better than what you get from titan or garuda.. or heck just get one of the allagans from coil. whereas.. I saw a HUGE difference between lets say FFXI Samurai relic and a Hagun. difference so much so that I can see why it took 75 million gil or 6 months... if i had to spend that kinda time or money on XIV Id be COMPLETELY disappointed in what I got

Now you might say "exactly but you DIDNT have to do that for XIV relic thus what you got is acceptable and thus there should be no problem" however some of us actually WANT that uber rare piece of status equipment that only few will have and was extremely difficult to get. Its just like beating Coil turn 5 right now... considering the small amount of people who have done t... Id consider doing that to be an extreme accomplishment... almost on par with getting relic in FFXI pre lvl cap raise... now will I feel the same about doing it a few months from now when the il80 gear probably makes t so easy that there will be as many ppl cleared as those that have relic +1 (i.e everyone whos been lvl 50 for longer than 4 week?) nope at that point Id see it as no challenge/accomplishment at all and consider it old news (kind alike how getting relic in XI is today... but look how long it took before relic to drop down to "doable by just about everyone" status.


Relic in 1.0 look like it required a bit more effort. But anyway this isnt what this topic is about nor is it about comparing the content of a game thats not even 6 months old to a game thats 11 years old.... what its actually about is this games "new content" mosty just being harder versions of old content (i.e extreme mode primals and hard dungeons)ed to giving is 100% NEW stuff (like all brand new dungeons, brand new primals to fight etc etc. THATS what this discussion is supposed to be about
#35 Dec 10 2013 at 11:22 PM Rating: Decent
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and now EXTREME.. what next... ultra? then super saiyajin? lol)


First of all, epic win. Made me laught pretty hard here at the office.

I'm inclined to agree with Duo in regards to gratification of content. XI did give me a better sense of accomplishment with content. Getting to subjobs wasn't hard in the vast scheme of things, but as a new player it was a huge milestone. Adv jobs was a huge milestone, completing story content was extremely gratifying for the difficulty and amount of travel you had to do. At the time it was all very annoying, but once completed it was something you could sit around and say, "Yeah, I did that. It was a pain, but I did it". Camping NM's and rushing during the spawn? Annoying, but exciting and gratifying. Endgame content? All gratifying to complete.

As I roll around in XIV, I enjoy the quick nature of all the content. I can log in, tool around for 20 minutes, accomplish something, and log off. But I don't have that same feeling of 'accomplishment' that I did in older games such as XI, RF Online, EVE's older content, etc.

That being said, yes, I agree this is the direction of newer MMOs -- Get in quick, get out happy -- It's very casual oriented, and while I don't like it either, as I'm getting older it's harder for me to spend that kind of time on an MMO like I did in XI. I think overall the age range that grew up with 1st gen MMOs is going up, and those folks are tayloring to the newer crowd.

Lastly I'm still very curious why Duo keeps getting downrated on these discussions. He's bringing up very valid points and articulating them rather well. Isn't that worth upvoting? He has mine.

Just curious what the mindset is there. No knocks on anyone, it's everyone's right to do as they please.

Edited, Dec 11th 2013 12:30am by darexius2010
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#36 Dec 10 2013 at 11:30 PM Rating: Excellent
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just look at how "often" GW2 and DC universe online get new stuff.



This made me laugh.

I played GW2 for six to eight months after it came out, and the only real content it got was rehashed mobs or NPCs with new dialogue. The only "new" things were small seasonal content events that were basically gateways to the cash shop.

The first patch of FFXIV will bring more new permanent content than GW2 had in its first year... and ARR just launched in August.

EDIT: I can't speak to DC Universe, though.

Edited, Dec 10th 2013 9:31pm by Thayos
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#37 Dec 11 2013 at 12:30 AM Rating: Default
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Thayos wrote:
Quote:
just look at how "often" GW2 and DC universe online get new stuff.



This made me laugh.

I played GW2 for six to eight months after it came out, and the only real content it got was rehashed mobs or NPCs with new dialogue. The only "new" things were small seasonal content events that were basically gateways to the cash shop.

The first patch of FFXIV will bring more new permanent content than GW2 had in its first year... and ARR just launched in August.

EDIT: I can't speak to DC Universe, though.

Edited, Dec 10th 2013 9:31pm by Thayos



that quote was sarcasm point out how lacking in content and updates that f2p games get over P2P lol
#38 Dec 11 2013 at 12:47 AM Rating: Default
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darexius2010, Goblin in Disguise wrote:
DuoMaxwellxx wrote:
and now EXTREME.. what next... ultra? then super saiyajin? lol)


First of all, epic win. Made me laugh pretty hard here at the office.

I'm inclined to agree with Duo in regards to gratification of content. XI did give me a better sense of accomplishment with content. Getting to subjobs wasn't hard in the vast scheme of things, but as a new player it was a huge milestone. Adv jobs was a huge milestone, completing story content was extremely gratifying for the difficulty and amount of travel you had to do. At the time it was all very annoying, but once completed it was something you could sit around and say, "Yeah, I did that. It was a pain, but I did it". Camping NM's and rushing during the spawn? Annoying, but exciting and gratifying. Endgame content? All gratifying to complete.



thats the very point im making and would love to see again.

Quote:
as I'm getting older it's harder for me to spend that kind of time on an MMO like I did in XI. I think overall the age range that grew up with 1st gen MMOs is going up, and those folks are tayloring to the newer crowd.



Well aside from working 40 hours a week only things I have to worry about is making sure food is in the fridge and the bills get paid on time, other than that I have the rest of the time for gaming. As I dont have to worry about kids and am smart enough to have dated someone who like/does the same things I do so 90% of our "together activities" time is spent doing something we BOTH enjoy instead of me being "forced" to do something I really dont give a crap about just to make them happy (i.e spending time together by sitting through her favorite episodes of some reality show I dont give a crap about while rolling my eyes in disgust and thinking abut what Id RATHER be doing instead lol). and I never have to hear the "You play that **** game too much" rant mos men have to deal with since 9 times outta 10 if shes not at work, shes sitting right there playing WITH me lol (the other 1 outta 10 would be going out for dinner and or s movie or doing things children shouldnt see.). Point being getting older has not compromised my ability to play something thats like the old FFXI was if i choose to do so today lol.

Quote:
Lastly I'm still very curious why Duo keeps getting downrated on these discussions. He's bringing up very valid points and articulating them rather well. Isn't that worth upvoting? He has mine.



good luck getting an intelligent response to that question. Cause Ive been dying for months to get one myself. So far the mentality seems If someone doesnt what the vast majority likes or disagrees with them its automatic grounds for a rate down


example: "oh noes this guy wants super hard content that only 10% of the playerbase will complete... this is old and archaic and anyone who still thinks like that is evil. the rest of us have been assimilated by the borg and its time he joined our way of thinking, anyone who cannot be assimilated must be eliminated (rated down)"
#39 Dec 11 2013 at 1:09 AM Rating: Good
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DuoMaxwellxx wrote:
that quote was sarcasm point out how lacking in content and updates that f2p games get over P2P lol

Not all F2P games are equal. Rift has steadily received new content since its conversion. Yes, people (will still) ***** about it and the actual quality or your typical cash shop vanity grab bag ****, but they can also just shut up and play if they want to without the whole pressure of a monthly sub. Basically, people need to shed their bias. Bad games will be bad because the devs don't take care of them properly, not so much in how they choose to pay the bills.

Otherwise, there's a lot of rose-tinted nostalgia and misinformation going on relative to XI that others have called out. Games have changed since then, and for the better. Stuff like relic/legandary nomenclature does need some work, though, because it just invites arguments like "Well, they should be hard to get!" or ******** when they're replaced (with no direct upgrade options). XIV's still young. It still needs some work. There's a strong foundation, but Yoshi needs to let go of some of his old school hardcore preconceptions with have influenced things like the CT gear lockout or lacking open world endgame. Until that happens, I'm okay with giving the game a break. ****, I'm pretty surprised with what the XI update did today in terms of casual friendliness and might even poke around there again for a month or two.
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#40 Dec 11 2013 at 1:19 AM Rating: Default
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Seriha wrote:
DuoMaxwellxx wrote:
that quote was sarcasm point out how lacking in content and updates that f2p games get over P2P lol

Not all F2P games are equal. Rift has steadily received new content since its conversion. Yes, people (will still) ***** about it and the actual quality or your typical cash shop vanity grab bag sh*t, but they can also just shut up and play if they want to without the whole pressure of a monthly sub. Basically, people need to shed their bias. Bad games will be bad because the devs don't take care of them properly, not so much in how they choose to pay the bills.



well when i see a f2p game get content every 2 months (or often enough that I cant ever get to a point where Ive done ALL he current content now I have no reason to play until new stuff comes out) then Ill believe it
#41 Dec 11 2013 at 2:06 AM Rating: Decent
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While I miss the hardcoe content and sense of achivement it brought, I also like the casual friendliness of newer mmos. Its like a double edge sword for me. I get saddend when I can get some of the best gear in a weekend (Darklight, and relics) but then I am happy that I can get said gear quickly to beable to get said gear effecently. I think alot of the problem is right now is there is to little to do in a game where they said really starts at 50. To me they should have made leveling alot harder to space players out from hardcore and casual. This would then be toned down when ample endgame content is released. I dont think they thought it through well when they made leveling so easyat the start that most new players have multiple level 50s and are now waiting. Yes we shouldnt have rushed and yes there are other things to do in game, but mmos in general revolve around end game content. The game is young it will get more, I just hope they are working twords new areas, and less rehashing old stuff with a hard or extrem mode slapped on it.
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#42 Dec 11 2013 at 4:29 AM Rating: Excellent
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DuoMaxwellxx wrote:
Seriha wrote:
DuoMaxwellxx wrote:
that quote was sarcasm point out how lacking in content and updates that f2p games get over P2P lol

Not all F2P games are equal. Rift has steadily received new content since its conversion. Yes, people (will still) ***** about it and the actual quality or your typical cash shop vanity grab bag sh*t, but they can also just shut up and play if they want to without the whole pressure of a monthly sub. Basically, people need to shed their bias. Bad games will be bad because the devs don't take care of them properly, not so much in how they choose to pay the bills.



well when i see a f2p game get content every 2 months (or often enough that I cant ever get to a point where Ive done ALL he current content now I have no reason to play until new stuff comes out) then Ill believe it

And let's not pretend sub games are putting out gobs of new content every 2 months, either.
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#43 Dec 11 2013 at 5:07 AM Rating: Good
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Let me ask you guys this since I haven't been paying super close attention lately. My major gripe with XIV is that all dungeons are instanced. I understand the value of instanced content for having a duty finder etc. etc. but I was always the type of player who liked tooling around deep in some bad-*** dungeon just to explore. I remember farming eyes for my Hakutaku cluster and seeing that Vrtra was up on widescan. Went over to see Vrtra- it was one of the most exciting times. I felt like I was really adventuring. The lack of non-instanced content makes the world feel kind of sterile to me. Why should I explore? There aren't hidden headstones to find, or random ??? that I will ask my linkshell about. The game is beautiful, but it has the whole "vacuum sealed single serving" feeling to me. Instanced content just loses some of it's adventure feeling when compared to being able to explore open-world dungeons. Do they have any plans to add that kind of content?
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#44 Dec 11 2013 at 7:59 AM Rating: Decent
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ChaChaJaJa wrote:
Let me ask you guys this since I haven't been paying super close attention lately. My major gripe with XIV is that all dungeons are instanced. I understand the value of instanced content for having a duty finder etc. etc. but I was always the type of player who liked tooling around deep in some bad-*** dungeon just to explore. I remember farming eyes for my Hakutaku cluster and seeing that Vrtra was up on widescan. Went over to see Vrtra- it was one of the most exciting times. I felt like I was really adventuring. The lack of non-instanced content makes the world feel kind of sterile to me. Why should I explore? There aren't hidden headstones to find, or random ??? that I will ask my linkshell about. The game is beautiful, but it has the whole "vacuum sealed single serving" feeling to me. Instanced content just loses some of it's adventure feeling when compared to being able to explore open-world dungeons. Do they have any plans to add that kind of content?


You can go digging around in the Kobold mines or risk life and limb in the Sahigan area or the Sylph lands. They're beastman strongholds, not dungeons, but they're pretty dangerous and badass all the same. I still haven't completed the maps in those zones.

Vrtra also appreciated your curiosity and said thanks for the snack.
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#45 Dec 11 2013 at 9:02 AM Rating: Good
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DuoMaxwellxx wrote:
darexius2010, Goblin in Disguise wrote:
[quote=DuoMaxwellxx]and now EXTREME.. what next... ultra? then super saiyajin? lol)


example: "oh noes this guy wants super hard content that only 10% of the playerbase will complete... this is old and archaic and anyone who still thinks like that is evil. the rest of us have been assimilated by the borg and its time he joined our way of thinking, anyone who cannot be assimilated must be eliminated (rated down)"


You're mistaking hard with time consuming. Titan HM is hard to alot of people, getting relics in FFXI was just time consuming, wasn't hard at all. I love both games but nothing in FFXI was hard, just takes alot of time to get stuff.
#46 Dec 11 2013 at 9:15 AM Rating: Default
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Bidnastyme wrote:
DuoMaxwellxx wrote:
darexius2010, Goblin in Disguise wrote:
[quote=DuoMaxwellxx]and now EXTREME.. what next... ultra? then super saiyajin? lol)


example: "oh noes this guy wants super hard content that only 10% of the playerbase will complete... this is old and archaic and anyone who still thinks like that is evil. the rest of us have been assimilated by the borg and its time he joined our way of thinking, anyone who cannot be assimilated must be eliminated (rated down)"


You're mistaking hard with time consuming. Titan HM is hard to alot of people, getting relics in FFXI was just time consuming, wasn't hard at all. I love both games but nothing in FFXI was hard, just takes alot of time to get stuff.



never saiod getting relic in FFXI was hard... HAERD would be CoP pre nerfs
#47 Dec 11 2013 at 9:27 AM Rating: Decent
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DuoMaxwellxx wrote:
Bidnastyme wrote:
DuoMaxwellxx wrote:
darexius2010, Goblin in Disguise wrote:
[quote=DuoMaxwellxx]and now EXTREME.. what next... ultra? then super saiyajin? lol)


example: "oh noes this guy wants super hard content that only 10% of the playerbase will complete... this is old and archaic and anyone who still thinks like that is evil. the rest of us have been assimilated by the borg and its time he joined our way of thinking, anyone who cannot be assimilated must be eliminated (rated down)"


You're mistaking hard with time consuming. Titan HM is hard to alot of people, getting relics in FFXI was just time consuming, wasn't hard at all. I love both games but nothing in FFXI was hard, just takes alot of time to get stuff.



never saiod getting relic in FFXI was hard... HAERD would be CoP pre nerfs


What's the difference between COP pre nerfs and Titan Hard Mode and Coil, they're all hard to alot of people. The only difference is accessability. Why make content that alienates 90% of your playerbase?
#48FilthMcNasty, Posted: Dec 11 2013 at 9:46 AM, Rating: Sub-Default, (Expand Post) I'd really like to know what SE was thinking when they decided they needed another subscription based MMO. Why kill it off? Why in the **** would you compete with yourself for your own playerbase? XI is getting changes that are band-aids to cover the self-inflicted wound. Quality of life changes to ease the burden of the few players that remain.
#49 Dec 11 2013 at 10:08 AM Rating: Excellent
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I can understand the feeling of pre-nerf CoP, because I was one of the few that was actually caught up on missions as they released them. Yep, there was a time when you got to the "end" of the current progress and had to wait til the next patch to continue. It was hard as ****, took my static endless times to do it, and I stood up and screamed and pumped my fist when we took things like the mammets and U/O down. Would I want to go through farming stuff for the fights over and over, deal with constant trial and error, leveling subjobs or secondary jobs, gathering gear sets for level cap ever again? No way. The real beauty of the era was having a static and doing stuff in a small group of friends. THAT was rewarding and I would want that back.

Relics in XI? Old Dynamis? May it never return. The reason there were something like 10 relics per server pre-TOAU was because in order to have one you needed to somehow convince 30 other people to do Dynamis with you for the chance at lolAF2 while the leader pocketed the currency. I realize that some groups split the currency and that some rich crafters bought most of their own currency, but the vast majority of the whole system was 2 alliances doing an event for the benefit of 1 person. Combine that with the 72 hour lockout and the $1 million entry fee and you have one of the worst systems ever.

Exploring? Larger zones? Yep, all that was cool in XI but only for a few times. It was great being a level 20 noob trying to make your way to Jeuno or taking the boat to Selbina and stuff that most of us that played XI still remember. The reality is it IS archaic and not done anymore because it takes too **** long. Anyone remember xping in sky? or Cape Terrigan? Gather in Jeuno (1 hour), teleport (but only if you have a WHM), chocobo ride as far as you can (15 min), sneak/invis to camp (someone dies, wasted 30 min, now BRD needs to go because its been too long), finally get to camp. It was a process in and of itself just to get a decent party, much less an ideal party, and then if you get to camp and get started - you better **** well have 3 hours to xp and hope no one else comes to camp on top of you.


First off remove the relic from dynamis and dynamis was very fun.

Also the larger zones and exploring. You say it is not done anymore because it takes too long.. To me that is one of the biggest flaws with this game.. It is a couple of months old and pretty much everyone that started the game is at end game and allot did it in weeks. Weeks to get to end game? either the game was too short or too easy... That is just wrong and some are even through end game, I know some who have several relics. They should have made things to slow people down and not get to end game so fast especially when end game is so bad and not much is available yet. . This game should have sneak and invis, I can run through any level pretty much with out any fear, I miss that.




I agree with ChaChaJaJa there is no sense of adventure in this game. I remember the first time going into Tahrongi Canyon and being scared or the first time going into the crawlers nest. I remember trying to get to the teleport spots for the crystals.


I also miss the airship ride where you could see the zones from above. I miss ferry rides for fishing. It was a sense of accomplishment getting the airship pass. I dont have that sense of accomplishment with this game. I dont want this to be FFXI but I do think some of the stuff in FFXI were great and some of them are what make all games great..
.
I think allot of this game is good but it just feels like it is missing something. Something that made me want to get on FFXI everyday.. With FFXIV I feel I need to get on too keep up not because I want too all the time sense endgame. It feels more like work and if I want work I can go to work and make money. Again I hope this changes with new content and I realise this game is new.





Edited, Dec 11th 2013 11:35am by Nashred
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#50 Dec 11 2013 at 10:15 AM Rating: Good
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Not everyone is at endgame yet. Smiley: rolleyes
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#51 Dec 11 2013 at 10:18 AM Rating: Good
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Catwho wrote:
Not everyone is at endgame yet. Smiley: rolleyes


Most people are though and will be in months.. There are also those who quit so they will never be.. There are also new player who are not.. But you know what my point is.

There were allot who did it in weeks and there is something just wrong with a game where people can do it in weeks. That is not a sense of accomplishment.. Any game I bought I would be disappointed in if I finished it in weeks mmo or not. Dont get me wrong there is allot I like about the game and allot that is better than FFXI, it just feels like somethings are missing and like someone stated above part of it is a sense of adventure...

Another is sometimes the sense of accomplishment.. In ffxi when you got your AF gear it was a major sense of accomplishment and you used it. With AF gear in this game there wasn't I am already on darklight gear and all I did was run WP... Af gear should not been put at end game.

Crafting is far better in this game but again what for? Most of the gear in dungeons is better... I remember getting to yag drink or insect balls in cooking in FFXI and going I am going to make some money here and it felt like a major accomplishment.. I hated crafting in FFXI though it was just so random and grindy.

I find myself missing FFXI sometimes and believe me I was ready to move on and ready for something new. The game was getting old.











Edited, Dec 11th 2013 11:55am by Nashred
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