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#52 Dec 11 2013 at 10:39 AM Rating: Decent
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Bidnastyme wrote:
DuoMaxwellxx wrote:
Bidnastyme wrote:
DuoMaxwellxx wrote:
darexius2010, Goblin in Disguise wrote:
[quote=DuoMaxwellxx]and now EXTREME.. what next... ultra? then super saiyajin? lol)


example: "oh noes this guy wants super hard content that only 10% of the playerbase will complete... this is old and archaic and anyone who still thinks like that is evil. the rest of us have been assimilated by the borg and its time he joined our way of thinking, anyone who cannot be assimilated must be eliminated (rated down)"


You're mistaking hard with time consuming. Titan HM is hard to alot of people, getting relics in FFXI was just time consuming, wasn't hard at all. I love both games but nothing in FFXI was hard, just takes alot of time to get stuff.



never saiod getting relic in FFXI was hard... HAERD would be CoP pre nerfs


What's the difference between COP pre nerfs and Titan Hard Mode and Coil, they're all hard to alot of people. The only difference is accessability. Why make content that alienates 90% of your playerbase?




the difference between CoP pre nerf and titan hard mode is although he was hard ther was never a time where I felt like "we cant/wont do this... I could always see the light at the end of the tunnel or the carrot on eh stick dangling in front of me... I just had to reach out and grab it." whereas CoP was like a deep dark pit of despair that you knew/thought you had no way of escape... and it just made you feel wonderful when you accomplished the "impossible". i.e Id compare CoP too a group of untrained farmers fighting a group of battle hardened well trained marines... theres no way the farms would/should win in that situation.... so imagine how they musta felt if they actually DId pull it off? Titian never felt that way

Titan for example can easily be beaten by 5 ppl who know what theyre doing while the other 3 leech (thus titan is not really hard) CoP on the other hand, you could have 2-3 ppl in the party whos done the fight and won 100+ times thus they know what theyre doing... but guess what? Unless EVERYBODY in that party brought their A game there was no way you were gonna win despite having experienced p[layers on your team. THAT is the difference between Titan and CoP
#53 Dec 11 2013 at 10:45 AM Rating: Excellent
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I find myself sitting on the fence between all of these comments and the OP. My preface will be that I am a Legacy player enjoying XIV much as I did XI during my years of participation. I found the storyline in both games enjoyable, at least, to the extent I was able to complete it.

I don't know about rehashing content when this is only the first patch. I do agree, completing content in XI felt more rewarding than it does in XIV. And while XI was a time consuming party grind, I enjoyed the parties, pace and execution of battles. The increased pace of battle in XIV is more inline with the overall MMO genre and let's not forget it makes more sense that you would typically battle several monsters all at once instead of taking 5 minutes to down one before engaging another. Likewise, EXP gain in XIV is paced better for casual players like me who with age and changing circumstance no longer have hours to waste looking for a party.

However, unusual though this may sound, I dislike grinding dungeons repeatedly to farm tomes. One might ask, how is that any different then camping and farming the same monster repeatedly? To the which, I have no good response other than odd personal preference. I feel like I hardly know Eorzea at all, despite having completed the main scenario and obtaining AF2 and relic +1 for multiple jobs. I have been grinding Wanderer's Palace, AK and Castrum Merandium each week so maybe that is why I am feeling apathetic. I no longer find enjoyment in it. Contrast this with the 'old school' party grind experienced in XI, I enjoyed this for nearly a decade. I'm afraid that to me the comparison speaks volumes about my preferences and the longevity of the game for me.

I continue to look forward to the horizon, what Yoshi did with XIV 1.xx before the end was nothing short of a miracle and I wonder what he might have in store for 2.xx and beyond. I hope as the game ages it can find new ways to appeal to my admittedly unusual preferences. I just hope I can get to know Eorzea as well as I knew Vanadiel.
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#54 Dec 11 2013 at 10:45 AM Rating: Good
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DuoMaxwellxx wrote:
Unless EVERYBODY in that party brought their A game there was no way you were gonna win despite having experienced players on your team.

As someone who beat CoP pre-nerf; if by "bring their A game" you mean "zerg the weakest mob, wipe, reraise, repeat" then yes, everyone had to "bring their A game."

Edited, Dec 11th 2013 6:18pm by DomfranciscoOfIfrit
#55 Dec 11 2013 at 10:46 AM Rating: Good
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DuoMaxwellxx wrote:
Bidnastyme wrote:
DuoMaxwellxx wrote:
Bidnastyme wrote:
DuoMaxwellxx wrote:
darexius2010, Goblin in Disguise wrote:
[quote=DuoMaxwellxx]and now EXTREME.. what next... ultra? then super saiyajin? lol)


example: "oh noes this guy wants super hard content that only 10% of the playerbase will complete... this is old and archaic and anyone who still thinks like that is evil. the rest of us have been assimilated by the borg and its time he joined our way of thinking, anyone who cannot be assimilated must be eliminated (rated down)"


You're mistaking hard with time consuming. Titan HM is hard to alot of people, getting relics in FFXI was just time consuming, wasn't hard at all. I love both games but nothing in FFXI was hard, just takes alot of time to get stuff.



never saiod getting relic in FFXI was hard... HAERD would be CoP pre nerfs


What's the difference between COP pre nerfs and Titan Hard Mode and Coil, they're all hard to alot of people. The only difference is accessability. Why make content that alienates 90% of your playerbase?




the difference between CoP pre nerf and titan hard mode is although he was hard ther was never a time where I felt like "we cant/wont do this... I could always see the light at the end of the tunnel or the carrot on eh stick dangling in front of me... I just had to reach out and grab it." whereas CoP was like a deep dark pit of despair that you knew/thought you had no way of escape... and it just made you feel wonderful when you accomplished the "impossible". i.e Id compare CoP too a group of untrained farmers fighting a group of battle hardened well trained marines... theres no way the farms would/should win in that situation.... so imagine how they musta felt if they actually DId pull it off? Titian never felt that way

Titan for example can easily be beaten by 5 ppl who know what theyre doing while the other 3 leech (thus titan is not really hard) CoP on the other hand, you could have 2-3 ppl in the party whos done the fight and won 100+ times thus they know what theyre doing... but guess what? Unless EVERYBODY in that party brought their A game there was no way you were gonna win despite having experienced p[layers on your team. THAT is the difference between Titan and CoP


I guess we're different, I felt no different beating COP pre-nerf and beating Titan, they both felt fun, hard, and rewarding. If you were carried, of course it didnt feel good but failed pugs after failed pugs on Titan definitely made me feel really good when I beat him which basically the same feeling I felt when I kept on failing COP unitl I beat it.
#56 Dec 11 2013 at 11:46 AM Rating: Decent
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Bidnastyme wrote:
DuoMaxwellxx wrote:
Bidnastyme wrote:
DuoMaxwellxx wrote:
Bidnastyme wrote:
DuoMaxwellxx wrote:
darexius2010, Goblin in Disguise wrote:
DuoMaxwellxx wrote:
and now EXTREME.. what next... ultra? then super saiyajin? lol)


example: "oh noes this guy wants super hard content that only 10% of the playerbase will complete... this is old and archaic and anyone who still thinks like that is evil. the rest of us have been assimilated by the borg and its time he joined our way of thinking, anyone who cannot be assimilated must be eliminated (rated down)"


You're mistaking hard with time consuming. Titan HM is hard to alot of people, getting relics in FFXI was just time consuming, wasn't hard at all. I love both games but nothing in FFXI was hard, just takes alot of time to get stuff.



never saiod getting relic in FFXI was hard... HAERD would be CoP pre nerfs


What's the difference between COP pre nerfs and Titan Hard Mode and Coil, they're all hard to alot of people. The only difference is accessability. Why make content that alienates 90% of your playerbase?




the difference between CoP pre nerf and titan hard mode is although he was hard ther was never a time where I felt like "we cant/wont do this... I could always see the light at the end of the tunnel or the carrot on eh stick dangling in front of me... I just had to reach out and grab it." whereas CoP was like a deep dark pit of despair that you knew/thought you had no way of escape... and it just made you feel wonderful when you accomplished the "impossible". i.e Id compare CoP too a group of untrained farmers fighting a group of battle hardened well trained marines... theres no way the farms would/should win in that situation.... so imagine how they musta felt if they actually DId pull it off? Titian never felt that way

Titan for example can easily be beaten by 5 ppl who know what theyre doing while the other 3 leech (thus titan is not really hard) CoP on the other hand, you could have 2-3 ppl in the party whos done the fight and won 100+ times thus they know what theyre doing... but guess what? Unless EVERYBODY in that party brought their A game there was no way you were gonna win despite having experienced p[layers on your team. THAT is the difference between Titan and CoP


I guess we're different, I felt no different beating COP pre-nerf and beating Titan, they both felt fun, hard, and rewarding. If you were carried, of course it didnt feel good but failed pugs after failed pugs on Titan definitely made me feel really good when I beat him which basically the same feeling I felt when I kept on failing COP unitl I beat it.



I dont understand how anyone can compare the two..
titan is one fight where cop is a story line with lots of fight and progression..
To me the Primal fights are not hard it is just annoying in this game. To many of the fights in FFXIV rely on everybody being lag free too.


Bidnastyme wrote:
DuoMaxwellxx wrote:
Bidnastyme wrote:
DuoMaxwellxx wrote:
[quote=darexius2010, Goblin in Disguise][quote=DuoMaxwellxx]and now EXTREME.. what next... ultra? then super saiyajin? lol)


example: "oh noes this guy wants super hard content that only 10% of the playerbase will complete... this is old and archaic and anyone who still thinks like that is evil. the rest of us have been assimilated by the borg and its time he joined our way of thinking, anyone who cannot be assimilated must be eliminated (rated down)"


You're mistaking hard with time consuming. Titan HM is hard to alot of people, getting relics in FFXI was just time consuming, wasn't hard at all. I love both games but nothing in FFXI was hard, just takes alot of time to get stuff.



never saiod getting relic in FFXI was hard... HAERD would be CoP pre nerfs


What's the difference between COP pre nerfs and Titan Hard Mode and Coil, they're all hard to alot of people. The only difference is accessability. Why make content that alienates 90% of your playerbase?


I agree...










Edited, Dec 11th 2013 12:50pm by Nashred
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#57 Dec 11 2013 at 11:47 AM Rating: Decent
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DomfranciscoOfIfrit wrote:
DuoMaxwellxx wrote:
Unless EVERYBODY in that party brought their A game there was no way you were gonna win despite having experienced players on your team.

As someone who beat CoP pre-nerf; if by "A game" you mean "zerg the weakest mob, wipe, reraise, repeat" then yes, everyone had to bring their "A game."



the only fight i remember that tactic being used was mithra trackers fight.. and ebven then you had to be s,art enoug to come up with that plan on your own... as WE did... consideing we didnt have a smn or two to astral fllow all thre eto death like everyone else was/had done so we had to come up with something that worked for us with no help or pre existing guides to tell us that themselves
#58 Dec 11 2013 at 12:36 PM Rating: Decent
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I think Everquest Next will be more to your liking Duo. Most content will be open world, there will be a mix of contested content, travelling will not be instant, nights will be dark and dangerous etc. I think for anyone who misses the older type of MMOs Everquest Next will be right up their ally with old ideas mixed in with new ones.

Now if you want exactly the level of time consuming content older games had you will probably be dissapointed, but I think it will be a step (probably quite a big one compared to games like ARR) in the direction a lot of people have been missing lately.

Personally I am happy because I think there has been a lack of those types of games in the years since WoW and I am all for a wider span of options for gamers.

Edited, Dec 11th 2013 1:37pm by Belcrono
#59 Dec 11 2013 at 12:52 PM Rating: Default
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ool all i really want back is HUGE explorable world and NON instanced explorable dungeons.... the other stuff would be nice too (like weapons that take a million years to get and super hard fights) but I can live without those.... just bring back the huge worlds and non instanced dungeons and Im happy
#60 Dec 11 2013 at 1:16 PM Rating: Excellent
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I kind of enjoy crafting for the sake of itself. There is something really satisfactory about pinning down the right rotation to get consistent high quality items. I was churning out HQ apple pies last night in Quarrymill, cheering every time it worked and I was about 80% chance of hitting HQ.

Same thing with fishing. It's relaxing.

And no, "most" people are not at endgame. I'd say maybe half the player base has at least one battle class at 50, and not all of those are going to be end gamers. I certainly have no desire to get into the rate race of endgame when all I want to do is log on and have fun for an hour or two before I go sleep.
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#61 Dec 12 2013 at 1:38 AM Rating: Good
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FilthMcNasty wrote:
I wonder where XI would be today if Project Rapture was never announced. What if instead, SE decided to take all the money they spent developing XIV(money they had as a result of XI mind you) and invested it back into the game. What if they had applied the same philosophy they currently have with XIV to their first MMO...

My biggest fear would be Tanaka would still be at the helm, but I think some riding high on nostalgia would answer what they knew, but better in the old way. And in the end, I'm not sure if this figurative XI would've survived without adaptations you see present in XIV or even hitting XI now. I would imagine a graphical overhaul would've taken place. PS2 may have been begrudgingly dropped. PS3/4 version? Hard to say. Either way, the Final "Schedule My Life Around It To Play" Fantasy XI I played circa-2006 in endgame isn't really something I want to experience again. Finally getting **** was nice, but not and all the other related trials was certainly draining.

As for current XI, I'm surprised there isn't a split sub option with XIV. But there's also a part of me that sees this freebie campaign as SE experimenting with F2P and comparing returning players to how many actually wind up resubbing. If not many stay, I could see them looking at the F2P model more seriously since it's obvious people DID want to peek back. It'd just be a matter of better discerning what they want and would pay for. And in terms of development kismet, I do think XIV is due to pay for XI for a few years. Assuming they can maintain that rough 1.5m sub number, that's probably more than current XI makes in 6+ months.
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#62 Dec 12 2013 at 10:01 AM Rating: Good
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Seriha wrote:
FilthMcNasty wrote:
I wonder where XI would be today if Project Rapture was never announced. What if instead, SE decided to take all the money they spent developing XIV(money they had as a result of XI mind you) and invested it back into the game. What if they had applied the same philosophy they currently have with XIV to their first MMO...

My biggest fear would be Tanaka would still be at the helm, but I think some riding high on nostalgia would answer what they knew, but better in the old way. And in the end, I'm not sure if this figurative XI would've survived without adaptations you see present in XIV or even hitting XI now. I would imagine a graphical overhaul would've taken place. PS2 may have been begrudgingly dropped. PS3/4 version? Hard to say. Either way, the Final "Schedule My Life Around It To Play" Fantasy XI I played circa-2006 in endgame isn't really something I want to experience again. Finally getting sh*t was nice, but not and all the other related trials was certainly draining.

As for current XI, I'm surprised there isn't a split sub option with XIV. But there's also a part of me that sees this freebie campaign as SE experimenting with F2P and comparing returning players to how many actually wind up resubbing. If not many stay, I could see them looking at the F2P model more seriously since it's obvious people DID want to peek back. It'd just be a matter of better discerning what they want and would pay for. And in terms of development kismet, I do think XIV is due to pay for XI for a few years. Assuming they can maintain that rough 1.5m sub number, that's probably more than current XI makes in 6+ months.


You said so much in only two paragraphs,, LOL.

Anyway I do not think they are looking at free to play. I talked to a friend and he said with he start up of FFXIV allot of people have left FFXI. Think they are just trying to get people to play it. They have made their money there, but who knows maybe you are right.

FFXI had great stuff but in the end was becoming mediocre. I really was looking to move on.. Like I said 0-50 I had a lot of fun with FFXIV it was new and refreshing. How do you hold people long term is the real question?.. The more I play the more I start to see more problems with FFXIV.. FFXI had allot of good and should not be overlooked. Why not draw form what was successful from the other game.. Why not draw those people over that are still playing.. Cheaper to run one game vs two. I dont want this to be the exact same game either. Also if they would have done FFXI all over I would not want it to be the exact same game either. There is something about end game so far that just puts a bad taste in my mouth. I know allot of others are saying the same thing. This game was supposed to be more casual and to me it is not much more casual. Hopefully the patch solves some of that and it sounds like it will.. It will give people a better chance at tombs, that dont want to run dungeons all the time.

Example that happened last night and one of the reasons I have a bad taste in my mouth.. We ran WP 3 times for tombs last night.. The second round we had 4 different tanks. We had a DPS that had regular AF gear on. We could not bring down the second boss. The tank goes to the DD I think it is a gear check issue with you.. The dps goes I thought you ran this for Tombs to get better gear. Well the tank left. New tank comes in and someone dies in the hallway so he leaves. We had 4 tanks..I stayed and felt bad for the dude.. Really this is casual, you dont have good gear people dont want to play with you, you cant do a speed run tanks drop out. Last night My girlfriend accidentally agroed some mobs trying to avoid the giant tomberry in there and this dude start calling here a newbie and left, she felt so bad. You dont play a game to feel bad. If these isolated cases it would be different but it happens everyday. Were casual with this game way more than FFXI.. But rarely did I see people get treated like that in FFXI. We are pretty much your average player trying to make it through end game, we didn't rush to get there and enjoyed the story.. .. This game promotes this behavior. In FFXI the good players took pride in helping those coming up. You know everyone blames everyone else. Well the next rounds we ran in less than 30 min each so who were the bad people in these runs?

Another thing is all these people having to buy titan runs.. Some of them are really good players but they have to buy a titan run just to get a relic. something is wrong with a game that is that frustrating just to complete a titan run that people are willing to spend gil to beat it. You know what that makes me think, what chance do I have.. In FFXI I never felt like that, I felt eventually with time I would.. Well if they dont give another path...

I agree with you, I dont want my life to revolve around a game like it did around FFXI but I at least want that feeling of excitement about getting on the game. I remember I couldn't wait to get out of work to come and explore FFXI and I had that feeling for years. I loved researching and making to do lists etc. . I had somewhat that feeling in the beginning FFXIV but I dont have that pull and sometimes it almost feels like a chore now and the game is only a few months old. I know the game is new and there is more content coming but how fast will we get through this new content. Also content needs to be new and exciting. Some of it is more rehashed primal fight which I find more frustrating than hard.

Again keeping players is the hard part and keeping it so new players come into the game. New and different is the key. FFXI real problem was bring in new blood. If you are not bring in new players it is a slow death.. you have to provide a path for new players to catch up.. It sound like they may have a path to help with this too..

One of the biggest pluses I do like about FFXIV is I dont need a wiki for everything I do like crafting recipes..








Edited, Dec 12th 2013 12:03pm by Nashred

Edited, Dec 12th 2013 12:13pm by Nashred
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#63 Dec 12 2013 at 1:46 PM Rating: Good
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I believe that right now, FFXIV is a game that didn't have any expansion, nor did it have any content patches added to it (first patch incoming soon). You basically have the main story line, and one end-game dungeon (BC) and 3 hard mode fight at the end of the main storyline that are more-or-less part of the main story line.

I understand that the "end-game" content had to be there for the legacy players, that needed the be challenged with their already level 50 character. I think that's probably why there is a mytho cap /turn cap on the end-game. To allow new player to catch-up faster by slowing a bit of the progress of the already level 50 player. I believe that the "new" end-game content will have less limitation like that the further along we go in the game.

But anyway, before anybody put some nostalgia tinted glasses and compare it to FFXI, I would like to compare the game with FFXI at the same state.

What was the end of the first storyline in FFXI, before any expansion or content patches? That's right: Shadowlord.

We are only as far as Shadowlord guys, and already the story, content-wise, fun-wise and etc is very advanced compared to what it was before.

What I meant is, for a game without any content patches and expansion, this game have tons of stuff to do. Right now, yes, the end-game seems a bit repetitive, That's because we only have one kind of end-game: BC and farming tombstone.

In less than a week, we'll add: 3 more dungeon to do at level 50, Crystal-tower, daily beastmen quest, Housing, etc. I am in a small FC and already, some members have problem capping mythos for the week for lack of time. I don't know how they will be able to do all that content each time, some will have to skip some parts.

So yeah, let's everyone take a deep breath, relax a bit and remember to have fun playing :)
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#64 Dec 12 2013 at 1:59 PM Rating: Excellent
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Pryssant wrote:
What was the end of the first storyline in FFXI, before any expansion or content patches? That's right: Shadowlord.


Nope!

Shadow Lord fight was a content patch. Northern areas were not available upon release.
#65 Dec 12 2013 at 2:21 PM Rating: Decent
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Pryssant wrote:

We are only as far as Shadowlord guys, and already the story, content-wise,)



Oh yeah the ROAD to 50 was geat.. its the boringand repitiveness without 20 dfferent things t choose from that you hav eto do AT 50 that make sme wanna kill kittens lol. sure ffxi endgame was also repeating the same THINGS over and over... difference is the list of thosethings was MUCH longer than AK, WP and Coils... thats r things.... I can list at least 20 in ffxi lol

but yeah going through the story in FFXIv is fine (still doesnt compare to CoP storywise though.. but neither does any of the other story mission in FFXI... so far aside from CoP all the other stories in FFXI and XIV feel like "ill just throw a story in this game to say our mmo actually ha a story and not just mindless grinding with no purpose to cap like every other mmo. CoP is so far the first and only FFmmo story Ive sen that itt looked like the devs actually put some thought into). but it took FFxi one expansion before we got CoP.... since the team now has years of MMO experience with FFXI.. Im hoping XIV gves us our CoP like expansion (at least storywise if not difficulty wise) right out the gate with its first expansion)
#66 Dec 12 2013 at 2:43 PM Rating: Good
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The tank goes to the DD I think it is a gear check issue with you.. The dps goes I thought you ran this for Tombs to get better gear. Well the tank left. New tank comes in and someone dies in the hallway so he leaves. We had 4 tanks..I stayed and felt bad for the dude.. Really this is casual, you dont have good gear people dont want to play with you, you cant do a speed run tanks drop out. Last night My girlfriend accidentally agroed some mobs trying to avoid the giant tomberry in there and this dude start calling here a newbie and left, she felt so bad. You dont play a game to feel bad.


I was having the same issue. I was a MNK in af trying to do Wanderer's Palace for the first time and they let out a sigh. When we went to run it the tank would constantly die and from there they spent 30 minutes ******** about each other's gear. So that party ended before it really began and the very next run I qued for, the same issue with the tank and healer complaining about one another happened. I can't get anything done because everyone just wants to ***** and complain about each other. So I decided to just wait until my FC got to endgame and run with them and in the meantime level other classes and jobs, but it's taking so long that I'm worried that by the time I'm able to actually run WP, AK or Coil regularly, a new Patch or expansion will come out voiding the current gear, in which I'd have to start all over again. I mean what is it about this game that is creating such animosity and eliticism?

Edited, Dec 12th 2013 12:44pm by Niklz
#67 Dec 12 2013 at 2:49 PM Rating: Excellent
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DuoMaxwellxx wrote:
Pryssant wrote:

We are only as far as Shadowlord guys, and already the story, content-wise,)



Oh yeah the ROAD to 50 was geat.. its the boringand repitiveness without 20 dfferent things t choose from that you hav eto do AT 50 that make sme wanna kill kittens lol. sure ffxi endgame was also repeating the same THINGS over and over... difference is the list of thosethings was MUCH longer than AK, WP and Coils... thats r things.... I can list at least 20 in ffxi lol

but yeah going through the story in FFXIv is fine (still doesnt compare to CoP storywise though.. but neither does any of the other story mission in FFXI... so far aside from CoP all the other stories in FFXI and XIV feel like "ill just throw a story in this game to say our mmo actually ha a story and not just mindless grinding with no purpose to cap like every other mmo. CoP is so far the first and only FFmmo story Ive sen that itt looked like the devs actually put some thought into). but it took FFxi one expansion before we got CoP.... since the team now has years of MMO experience with FFXI.. Im hoping XIV gves us our CoP like expansion (at least storywise if not difficulty wise) right out the gate with its first expansion)


Which is funny, because that's exactly the opposite of how every Final Fantasy game is made. They always start with a story script first.

From what I understand, the Zilart storyline was written as they were doing major development on vanilla FFXI. Then, as they were developing the content for Zilart and preparing the game for North American release, they were writing the story for CoP. The battle content, specific fights, mechanics, etc are all pulled into the mix once the initial script is done. I'm sure a lot is modified or altered along the way, but FF games have always started with a story and gone from there.

That said, I won't disagree that CoP was a more polished expansion than Zilart. ToAU had the tightest story, however. CoP and WotG just kind of wandered all over the place sometimes and you needed a friggin roadmad to keep track of where each NPC was and wtf was going on. ToAU? Way more tightly integrated with all the battles and zones and NPCs. Blue Mage lore alone was a huge chunk of the story.
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#68 Dec 12 2013 at 3:10 PM Rating: Excellent
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It's great to be the tank because I don't have to worry about the tank leaving. I sure find AK to be smoother run because, for whatever reason, the Giant Tonberry in WP just makes people panic and flub in their pants.

So more than once now I get a party where 3/4 of the party are in fresh AF, maybe 1 or 2 pieces of DL. Sometimes I even run into people who have only run AK a handful of times. For some reason, these are the parties that are the most rewarding.

The DRG gets killed by the giant AoE from the first boss? Ok, let's try again. The WHM gets Repelled off the Demon Wall? Whatever. The BLM wipes the party by letting the Ball of Death drop right in the middle of the party on the final boss? It's cool. Live and learn.

In every case these players have learned from their mistakes, and we go on to finish the run. Granted some of these runs take 60+ minutes, but what am I in a hurry for? Nothing. Coil to reset next week? The patch to release? Nope. No hurry at all.

It is extra fun to help these players struggle up through those first few runs and know that they are having a much better time because the whole party is being supportive. The victories with these parties involve dancing and cheering and smiley emotes.

I'll take a newbie run over a silent speed run with veterans any day.
#69 Dec 12 2013 at 3:25 PM Rating: Decent
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Niklz wrote:
Quote:
The tank goes to the DD I think it is a gear check issue with you.. The dps goes I thought you ran this for Tombs to get better gear. Well the tank left. New tank comes in and someone dies in the hallway so he leaves. We had 4 tanks..I stayed and felt bad for the dude.. Really this is casual, you dont have good gear people dont want to play with you, you cant do a speed run tanks drop out. Last night My girlfriend accidentally agroed some mobs trying to avoid the giant tomberry in there and this dude start calling here a newbie and left, she felt so bad. You dont play a game to feel bad.


I was having the same issue. I was a MNK in af trying to do Wanderer's Palace for the first time and they let out a sigh. When we went to run it the tank would constantly die and from there they spent 30 minutes ******** about each other's gear. So that party ended before it really began and the very next run I qued for, the same issue with the tank and healer complaining about one another happened. I can't get anything done because everyone just wants to ***** and complain about each other. So I decided to just wait until my FC got to endgame and run with them and in the meantime level other classes and jobs, but it's taking so long that I'm worried that by the time I'm able to actually run WP, AK or Coil regularly, a new Patch or expansion will come out voiding the current gear, in which I'd have to start all over again. I mean what is it about this game that is creating such animosity and eliticism?

Edited, Dec 12th 2013 12:44pm by Niklz


Oh I just listed two stories I have run WP probably 20 times or more.. Way over 50 percent are bad with DF. Almost always because of the tank, either because they are just ok or the good ones leave.. I can tell within minutes if it will go smooth or not. But even when we get a good tank someone will mess up and the tank just leaves. I am a whm and WP really is not hard to heal through.. Most tanks want a DPS that can AOE well on the second Boss when the adds pop..A blm or a Bard with a relic help.. I have got through perfectly fine with a dragoon or mnk though, really depends on the tank able to grab pops on the second boss but the adds need to be killed quick or things go bad... It is hard on the tank really though because he has to hold them while dps are doing aoe's pulling all that hate. If they are not grouped then some get away.. The thing when tanking single mobs most tanks are good, when tanking multiple it is way harder and that usually defines the really good ones. Tanking in this game is not easy.

Problem right now is you need to run it way more than what a FC is going to want to do with you... Good thing is my FC has at least two parties a night running it. Bad part is it is only 4 people run.....

Part of the issue is they made 0 - 50 way to easy,, End game way too hard with no content in the middle to build people up and get them better. But end game aint just hard it is frustrating. 2.1 should give people another avenue for tombs though... Hard dont bother me.








Edited, Dec 12th 2013 4:45pm by Nashred

Edited, Dec 12th 2013 4:47pm by Nashred

Edited, Dec 12th 2013 4:48pm by Nashred
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#70 Dec 12 2013 at 3:47 PM Rating: Good
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Gnu wrote:
It's great to be the tank because I don't have to worry about the tank leaving. I sure find AK to be smoother run because, for whatever reason, the Giant Tonberry in WP just makes people panic and flub in their pants.

So more than once now I get a party where 3/4 of the party are in fresh AF, maybe 1 or 2 pieces of DL. Sometimes I even run into people who have only run AK a handful of times. For some reason, these are the parties that are the most rewarding.

The DRG gets killed by the giant AoE from the first boss? Ok, let's try again. The WHM gets Repelled off the Demon Wall? Whatever. The BLM wipes the party by letting the Ball of Death drop right in the middle of the party on the final boss? It's cool. Live and learn.

In every case these players have learned from their mistakes, and we go on to finish the run. Granted some of these runs take 60+ minutes, but what am I in a hurry for? Nothing. Coil to reset next week? The patch to release? Nope. No hurry at all.

It is extra fun to help these players struggle up through those first few runs and know that they are having a much better time because the whole party is being supportive. The victories with these parties involve dancing and cheering and smiley emotes.

I'll take a newbie run over a silent speed run with veterans any day.


This is how I look at things as well, and oddly enough, I usually play tanks in MMOs. I'm only level 27 right now, and I make sure to let my party members know that this is my first time running whatever dungeon we're doing. If they have a problem with that, they can leave before we start and I promise my wait to replace them will be longer than their wait to replace me.

For the last 5 or 6 years I played WoW, I was a paladin tank. I was never on the cutting edge of raiding, and I never got to see all of the content. But I also had no problem learning the fights and then teaching the next wave of level-capped characters how to do them. There's something to be said for seeing a group that you put on your back and carried through the instance, finally click all together and the boss goes down.

Edited, Dec 12th 2013 3:48pm by Bigdaddyjug
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#71 Dec 12 2013 at 3:51 PM Rating: Decent
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DuoMaxwellxx wrote:
Pryssant wrote:

We are only as far as Shadowlord guys, and already the story, content-wise,)



Oh yeah the ROAD to 50 was geat.. its the boringand repitiveness without 20 dfferent things t choose from that you hav eto do AT 50 that make sme wanna kill kittens lol. sure ffxi endgame was also repeating the same THINGS over and over... difference is the list of thosethings was MUCH longer than AK, WP and Coils... thats r things.... I can list at least 20 in ffxi lol

but yeah going through the story in FFXIv is fine (still doesnt compare to CoP storywise though.. but neither does any of the other story mission in FFXI... so far aside from CoP all the other stories in FFXI and XIV feel like "ill just throw a story in this game to say our mmo actually ha a story and not just mindless grinding with no purpose to cap like every other mmo. CoP is so far the first and only FFmmo story Ive sen that itt looked like the devs actually put some thought into). but it took FFxi one expansion before we got CoP.... since the team now has years of MMO experience with FFXI.. Im hoping XIV gves us our CoP like expansion (at least storywise if not difficulty wise) right out the gate with its first expansion)


One of my biggest complaints in FFXI was story,. They RPG's which means there should be story. Most missions in the game made no sense either. I dont know who ever figured out what you need to do on some of them or even how...... Thanks for a wiki for that game.. Even after doing the missions they still made no sense, Still it was super fun game and everything felt like accomplishment.

One of the things this game does do better is story and quest. The quest could be a little more varied but defiantly better than FFXI



Edited, Dec 12th 2013 5:54pm by Nashred

Edited, Dec 12th 2013 5:55pm by Nashred
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#72 Dec 12 2013 at 9:58 PM Rating: Decent
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It would be great if the first expansion had a story comparable to Promathia, but keep the mechanics and gimmicks out! Please keep the gated- area concept far away from XIV. Same for Snoll Tzar battles and other fights that require specific jobs to complete effectively. The absolute LAST thing XIV needs is anything that encourages job discrimination.
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#73 Dec 12 2013 at 10:57 PM Rating: Good
You mean like every boss in the game that has circular AOE's and cone attacks for melee to dodge? I'm looking at you, Chimera, Caduceus, and ADS...
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#74 Dec 13 2013 at 1:15 AM Rating: Decent
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Seriha wrote:
FilthMcNasty wrote:
I wonder where XI would be today if Project Rapture was never announced. What if instead, SE decided to take all the money they spent developing XIV(money they had as a result of XI mind you) and invested it back into the game. What if they had applied the same philosophy they currently have with XIV to their first MMO...
And in the end, I'm not sure if this figurative XI would've survived without adaptations you see present in XIV or even hitting XI now. I would imagine a graphical overhaul would've taken place. PS2 may have been begrudgingly dropped. PS3/4 version? Hard to say. Either way, the Final "Schedule My Life Around It To Play" Fantasy XI I played circa-2006 in endgame isn't really something I want to experience again. Finally getting sh*t was nice, but not and all the other related trials was certainly draining.


I think a decade is outside the statute of limitations on being forced to upgrade. XI isn't a resource hog and doesn't require much to run well. Anyone who ******* about it should be directed to a google search for 10 year old technology. If you played XI at a more than casual level then you've already invested the time. People were comfortable with it taking ages to farm gear, crafting levels, merits, ect. because they were led to believe that SE would never be raising the level cap.

PS2 may have been begrudgingly dropped? It only took a few years to overhaul what 1.0 was into what ARR is. I think all they really needed to do was update XI's engine and UI and push for a PS3 release. XIV runs on a PS3 and after launching on PS2, it just seemed like the next step for Vana'diel. XI was at it's peak around the time of ToAU. Ironically, ToAU released roughly the same amount of time before the PS3 as XIV did compared to PS4.

Seriha wrote:
And in terms of development kismet, I do think XIV is due to pay for XI for a few years. Assuming they can maintain that rough 1.5m sub number, that's probably more than current XI makes in 6+ months.

I'm pretty sure that game could be aggressively developed throughout the remainder of our lifetime and have enough money left over for a 6 pack. Had they invested more of those profits back into the game, I don't really have any doubt that XI would still thrive and XIV would instead have been Lightning Returns. That said, I still can't figure out why they went away from XI. They are competing with themselves in an already saturated market. Does not compute.


Edited, Dec 13th 2013 2:17am by FilthMcNasty
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#75 Dec 13 2013 at 2:06 AM Rating: Good
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Catwho wrote:
DuoMaxwellxx wrote:
Pryssant wrote:

We are only as far as Shadowlord guys, and already the story, content-wise,)



Oh yeah the ROAD to 50 was geat.. its the boringand repitiveness without 20 dfferent things t choose from that you hav eto do AT 50 that make sme wanna kill kittens lol. sure ffxi endgame was also repeating the same THINGS over and over... difference is the list of thosethings was MUCH longer than AK, WP and Coils... thats r things.... I can list at least 20 in ffxi lol

but yeah going through the story in FFXIv is fine (still doesnt compare to CoP storywise though.. but neither does any of the other story mission in FFXI... so far aside from CoP all the other stories in FFXI and XIV feel like "ill just throw a story in this game to say our mmo actually ha a story and not just mindless grinding with no purpose to cap like every other mmo. CoP is so far the first and only FFmmo story Ive sen that itt looked like the devs actually put some thought into). but it took FFxi one expansion before we got CoP.... since the team now has years of MMO experience with FFXI.. Im hoping XIV gves us our CoP like expansion (at least storywise if not difficulty wise) right out the gate with its first expansion)


Which is funny, because that's exactly the opposite of how every Final Fantasy game is made. They always start with a story script first.

From what I understand, the Zilart storyline was written as they were doing major development on vanilla FFXI. Then, as they were developing the content for Zilart and preparing the game for North American release, they were writing the story for CoP. The battle content, specific fights, mechanics, etc are all pulled into the mix once the initial script is done. I'm sure a lot is modified or altered along the way, but FF games have always started with a story and gone from there.

That said, I won't disagree that CoP was a more polished expansion than Zilart. ToAU had the tightest story, however. CoP and WotG just kind of wandered all over the place sometimes and you needed a friggin roadmad to keep track of where each NPC was and wtf was going on. ToAU? Way more tightly integrated with all the battles and zones and NPCs. Blue Mage lore alone was a huge chunk of the story.



nah COP story had better character development and the plot was fast paced enough that you were dying too see what happens next.... I mean from the very beginning the troops riding into delkfutts tower, a guard being knocked into a wall, bahamut riding from the sea, all those solders invading upper jeuno to drag sethulus out of where they were keeping him.... meeting tenzen, fighting tenzen.... meeting prishe, going into promyvions... there was NEVER s slow/dull moment in that story line... I cant say the same for the others (or ffxiv's)


and yea i know hey start with story first what I was saying is CoP seems to be the only one they actually TRIED with.. I mean i could compare and even say CoP is just as good or better than a few of the single player FF games plots.... I cant say that about ANY of the other storylines in XI or XIV
#76 Dec 13 2013 at 2:10 AM Rating: Good
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Nashred wrote:
DuoMaxwellxx wrote:
Pryssant wrote:

We are only as far as Shadowlord guys, and already the story, content-wise,)



Oh yeah the ROAD to 50 was geat.. its the boringand repitiveness without 20 dfferent things t choose from that you hav eto do AT 50 that make sme wanna kill kittens lol. sure ffxi endgame was also repeating the same THINGS over and over... difference is the list of thosethings was MUCH longer than AK, WP and Coils... thats r things.... I can list at least 20 in ffxi lol

but yeah going through the story in FFXIv is fine (still doesnt compare to CoP storywise though.. but neither does any of the other story mission in FFXI... so far aside from CoP all the other stories in FFXI and XIV feel like "ill just throw a story in this game to say our mmo actually ha a story and not just mindless grinding with no purpose to cap like every other mmo. CoP is so far the first and only FFmmo story Ive sen that itt looked like the devs actually put some thought into). but it took FFxi one expansion before we got CoP.... since the team now has years of MMO experience with FFXI.. Im hoping XIV gves us our CoP like expansion (at least storywise if not difficulty wise) right out the gate with its first expansion)


One of my biggest complaints in FFXI was story,. They RPG's which means there should be story. Most missions in the game made no sense either. I dont know who ever figured out what you need to do on some of them or even how...... Thanks for a wiki for that game.. Even after doing the missions they still made no sense, Still it was super fun game and everything felt like accomplishment.

One of the things this game does do better is story and quest. The quest could be a little more varied but defiantly better than FFXI


Edited, Dec 12th 2013 5:54pm by Nashred

Edited, Dec 12th 2013 5:55pm by Nashred


umm CoP story.... as for figuring out what you need to do... umm not every game holds your hand and has big icons above characters or waypoint indicators for example:

Final Fantasy 1
Final Fantasy II
Dragon Warrior
Dragon Quest 8

are a few of the games i can name off the top of my head where you werent spoonfed directions and had to explore/figure out the next step yourself... yet no one complained about those games



Edited, Dec 13th 2013 2:11am by DuoMaxwellxx
#77 Dec 13 2013 at 2:16 AM Rating: Good
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AriesMCMLXXIII wrote:
It would be great if the first expansion had a story comparable to Promathia, but keep the mechanics and gimmicks out! Please keep the gated- area concept far away from XIV. Same for Snoll Tzar battles and other fights that require specific jobs to complete effectively. The absolute LAST thing XIV needs is anything that encourages job discrimination.



you mean like "lfm geared blm or brd for wp speedruns"

"lfm all smn for smn WP"

"lfm ranged dps for T(number here)"

"lfm whm with VIT attributr point for t4 (or 5)"?



want me to keep going? lol

I oved how CoP "required" specific jobs to complete.... then I guess Snoll required a thief? cause thats definitely what I was when I took it down
#78 Dec 13 2013 at 3:20 AM Rating: Excellent
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FilthMcNasty wrote:
Anyway, looking at XI pre-RotZ doesn't make sense when you consider that most of the NA population didn't play vanilla XI. Look at the timing between the release of XI and the release of the first expansion. Now compare the release date of XI with the launch of the second expansion. Look back at XIV now more than 3 years out from it's initial launch. Realize that if you're going to compare XI to XIV, it's more accurate to compare how far they've come in XIV to where XI was when CoP launched, not RotZ.

FilthMcNasty wrote:
FFXIV ARR is 3 years old.


Just curious..have you actually found anyone on this forum who buys this yet? Smiley: lol
#79 Dec 13 2013 at 4:25 AM Rating: Excellent
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I agree that rehashing old content shouldn't be done for the sake of it, but for me, if the content brings added value to even a handful of people in game, then it is worth it. I'm quite excited about the hardmode dungeons, as myself, my brother, a friend and his brother all run dungeons 4 man for fun, so adding more/adding challenge to these dungeons is a bonus for us.

And dont forget, even the whole Abyssea chain of expansions was a rehash of old content with new mob placement, the zones were near identical to their Vana counterparts, but that didn't stop people flocking to it in droves.

It will only become an issue for me when they stick Extreme on the front of something, and it literally brings no value to anyone in game. If a dozen people like it and the rest don't, it was worth it for those people, so really, who are we to judge?
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#80 Dec 13 2013 at 5:26 AM Rating: Default
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HitomeOfBismarck wrote:
FilthMcNasty wrote:
Anyway, looking at XI pre-RotZ doesn't make sense when you consider that most of the NA population didn't play vanilla XI. Look at the timing between the release of XI and the release of the first expansion. Now compare the release date of XI with the launch of the second expansion. Look back at XIV now more than 3 years out from it's initial launch. Realize that if you're going to compare XI to XIV, it's more accurate to compare how far they've come in XIV to where XI was when CoP launched, not RotZ.

FilthMcNasty wrote:
FFXIV ARR is 3 years old.


Just curious..have you actually found anyone on this forum who buys this yet? Smiley: lol


There are probably a lot of people who 'buy' it. It pretty much sells itself. We're over 3 years since XIV 1.0 launched(fixed: see above). For the sake of comparison, at this point in XIV's life FFXI already had two expansions(RotZ and CoP) and a third was announced and followed within the year. That is exactly the reason why I said it makes more sense to compare to CoP. If XI had launched when XIV 1.0 did, XI players would be playing their second expansion already while XIV players just got the fixed version of the game they wanted 3 years ago.

I mistakenly added 'ARR' in the quote above. I was speaking about 1.0 version. Everyone makes mistakes. That was my first Smiley: sly




Edited, Dec 13th 2013 6:28am by FilthMcNasty
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#81 Dec 13 2013 at 5:55 AM Rating: Good
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FilthMcNasty wrote:
That said, I still can't figure out why they went away from XI. They are competing with themselves in an already saturated market. Does not compute.

From the artistic standpoint, I can actually look to it as the XI world being a bit suffocating in terms of story content. Personally, I kind of hate the whole, "Oh, well, see, there's this continent over here and..." that happened with ToAU and now Adoulin. Some after-the-fact attempts at mish-mashing go on to try and cover it up, but I guess there's also a point where we just gotta roll our eyes and think, "OH NO, VANA'DIEL IS DOOMED IF THE ADVENTURERS DON'T DO SOMETHING....AGAIN!" with the world itself never really seeming to reflect that danger.

This isn't to say XIV is really any better in that respect yet, but I think I prefer XIV's attempt at personifying the primals/summons over XI's iteration of "old god-like things sleeping in a crystal" that only kinda mattered for SMNs and as a lore point for Fenrir during the war. I suspect some also find it find it refreshing to actually be fighting living, sentient humans this time around without any major plot points required, or their fantasy racial equivalents at least. This isn't to say XIV won't fall into future MMO traps of storytelling, but I've always been an advocate of XI doing storytelling better than its competition (even though I don't agree with CoP being this super-awesome expansion and felt the actual content rivaled some high school freshman's attempt at fan fiction) with XIV basically upping that ante as better tech allows.

Either way, different worlds means different rules. And if SE was smarter about their world building this time around, future areas won't seem as out-of-nowhere than they do with XI.
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#82 Dec 13 2013 at 7:19 AM Rating: Excellent
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Seriha wrote:
FilthMcNasty wrote:
That said, I still can't figure out why they went away from XI. They are competing with themselves in an already saturated market. Does not compute.

From the artistic standpoint, I can actually look to it as the XI world being a bit suffocating in terms of story content. Personally, I kind of hate the whole, "Oh, well, see, there's this continent over here and..." that happened with ToAU and now Adoulin. Some after-the-fact attempts at mish-mashing go on to try and cover it up, but I guess there's also a point where we just gotta roll our eyes and think, "OH NO, VANA'DIEL IS DOOMED IF THE ADVENTURERS DON'T DO SOMETHING....AGAIN!" with the world itself never really seeming to reflect that danger.

This isn't to say XIV is really any better in that respect yet, but I think I prefer XIV's attempt at personifying the primals/summons over XI's iteration of "old god-like things sleeping in a crystal" that only kinda mattered for SMNs and as a lore point for Fenrir during the war. I suspect some also find it find it refreshing to actually be fighting living, sentient humans this time around without any major plot points required, or their fantasy racial equivalents at least. This isn't to say XIV won't fall into future MMO traps of storytelling, but I've always been an advocate of XI doing storytelling better than its competition (even though I don't agree with CoP being this super-awesome expansion and felt the actual content rivaled some high school freshman's attempt at fan fiction) with XIV basically upping that ante as better tech allows.

Either way, different worlds means different rules. And if SE was smarter about their world building this time around, future areas won't seem as out-of-nowhere than they do with XI.


Interestingly, the continent in Adoulin (Ulbulka) was mentioned back in 2010 when WotG finally started to wrap up. Lekho Heboka, Nana Mihgo's missing father, said he was probably headed there since he was still being pursued by the Sin Hunters.
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#83 Dec 13 2013 at 7:24 AM Rating: Excellent
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FilthMcNasty wrote:
HitomeOfBismarck wrote:
FilthMcNasty wrote:
Anyway, looking at XI pre-RotZ doesn't make sense when you consider that most of the NA population didn't play vanilla XI. Look at the timing between the release of XI and the release of the first expansion. Now compare the release date of XI with the launch of the second expansion. Look back at XIV now more than 3 years out from it's initial launch. Realize that if you're going to compare XI to XIV, it's more accurate to compare how far they've come in XIV to where XI was when CoP launched, not RotZ.

FilthMcNasty wrote:
FFXIV ARR is 3 years old.


Just curious..have you actually found anyone on this forum who buys this yet? Smiley: lol


There are probably a lot of people who 'buy' it. It pretty much sells itself. We're over 3 years since XIV 1.0 launched(fixed: see above). For the sake of comparison, at this point in XIV's life FFXI already had two expansions(RotZ and CoP) and a third was announced and followed within the year. That is exactly the reason why I said it makes more sense to compare to CoP. If XI had launched when XIV 1.0 did, XI players would be playing their second expansion already while XIV players just got the fixed version of the game they wanted 3 years ago.

I mistakenly added 'ARR' in the quote above. I was speaking about 1.0 version. Everyone makes mistakes. That was my first Smiley: sly




Edited, Dec 13th 2013 6:28am by FilthMcNasty


Saying FFXIV is 3 years old is like saying the brand new house you built after your 3 year old one burned to the ground is the same age because the two have the same address.
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#84 Dec 13 2013 at 8:28 AM Rating: Good
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Velerophon wrote:
I agree that rehashing old content shouldn't be done for the sake of it, but for me, if the content brings added value to even a handful of people in game, then it is worth it. I'm quite excited about the hardmode dungeons, as myself, my brother, a friend and his brother all run dungeons 4 man for fun, so adding more/adding challenge to these dungeons is a bonus for us.

And dont forget, even the whole Abyssea chain of expansions was a rehash of old content with new mob placement, the zones were near identical to their Vana counterparts, but that didn't stop people flocking to it in droves.

It will only become an issue for me when they stick Extreme on the front of something, and it literally brings no value to anyone in game. If a dozen people like it and the rest don't, it was worth it for those people, so really, who are we to judge?


Actually Abyssea is when allot of long time players quit and those that stayed said it was the start of the downfall of the game. It seemed to draw back player that quit though because they could level and catch back up so fast. It made the game cheap being able to level so fast.. Then there was fell cleave parties and people started paying to level. Empyrean Weapon weapons were easy to get. Everyone was dressed the same and had the best gear. It started the downfall of LS... And it was just recycled content. Yea it introduce the proc that then go over used by adding it to old content like dynamis.

I dont care if they add hard mode dungeons really but to me it is a cheap fast way to add new content. But I prefer new content all together verses recycled content. It is not enough to hold my attention for long.. Hard mode primals though I have too do for relic but I hate them ...



Edited, Dec 13th 2013 9:56am by Nashred
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#85 Dec 13 2013 at 9:39 AM Rating: Good
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I certainly concede that Abyssea turned the levelling curve in XI from challenging to a joke over night, and it was a bad example to use in this case. That being said...the problem with Abyssea was the actual content it brought to the table, not the reuse of existing zones. If in ARR they can reuse their current assets to make content with some sort of value to the game, I'm all for it, as it means quicker turn around for patch development. But ONLY if the content they release has some sort of purpose. Otherwise, it is essentially laziness on their behalf.
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#86 Dec 13 2013 at 9:41 AM Rating: Good
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now THIS sounds like an MMO:

" Elder Scrolls Online director Matt Firor has explained why upcoming MMOG has public dungeons.

In an interview with Edge Firor expressed an enthusiasm for public dungeons that he's found disappointingly absent from the current MMO climate.

"Public dungeons were my favourite thing about EverQuest," said Firor, before lamenting, "I can't think of an MMOG since then that's had them."

"When you think back to the fun MMOG moments in the first generation, it's standing there, terrified, in an enclosed space, waiting for someone to come along and save you. We can't do that punitive gameplay that they did in those days, but we can put people together in places where they want to work with others."

One of The Elder Scrolls Online's central ambitions is to encourage players to socialise in the game world rather than just through the interfaces. Firor described these public dungeons as "basically a space that's designed for people who are not grouped together to go into to fight".

He added: "It's a great place for people to connect with other players and they're very important to us, although we still have instanced private dungeons and end-game raid dungeons for groups of up to six players too.

"Each one of these public dungeons is soloable, however, and there are a lot of them, but they're also dangerous. Lots of creatures, very close together. Basically, if you solo it, you'll need to find a place to heal, and then you might find another player there who's exactly like you, and needs help, and then you can fall in together. You'll have met someone that, hopefully, you'll want to stick around with later on."

While Firor will draw from first-generation concepts like public dungeons, he aims to marry it with the questing and levelling template of second-generation MMOs such as World of Warcaft, though no details have been confirmed about how those systems will work."


even mentioned dungeons having traps in it... not even FFXI had hat heck i dont think I seen an online rpg with traps (both player made and in dungeons) since text based MUDs lol.

#87 Dec 13 2013 at 10:18 AM Rating: Decent
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DuoMaxwellxx wrote:
now THIS sounds like an MMO:

" Elder Scrolls Online director Matt Firor has explained why upcoming MMOG has public dungeons.

In an interview with Edge Firor expressed an enthusiasm for public dungeons that he's found disappointingly absent from the current MMO climate.

"Public dungeons were my favourite thing about EverQuest," said Firor, before lamenting, "I can't think of an MMOG since then that's had them."

"When you think back to the fun MMOG moments in the first generation, it's standing there, terrified, in an enclosed space, waiting for someone to come along and save you. We can't do that punitive gameplay that they did in those days, but we can put people together in places where they want to work with others."

One of The Elder Scrolls Online's central ambitions is to encourage players to socialise in the game world rather than just through the interfaces. Firor described these public dungeons as "basically a space that's designed for people who are not grouped together to go into to fight".

He added: "It's a great place for people to connect with other players and they're very important to us, although we still have instanced private dungeons and end-game raid dungeons for groups of up to six players too.

"Each one of these public dungeons is soloable, however, and there are a lot of them, but they're also dangerous. Lots of creatures, very close together. Basically, if you solo it, you'll need to find a place to heal, and then you might find another player there who's exactly like you, and needs help, and then you can fall in together. You'll have met someone that, hopefully, you'll want to stick around with later on."

While Firor will draw from first-generation concepts like public dungeons, he aims to marry it with the questing and levelling template of second-generation MMOs such as World of Warcaft, though no details have been confirmed about how those systems will work."


even mentioned dungeons having traps in it... not even FFXI had hat heck i dont think I seen an online rpg with traps (both player made and in dungeons) since text based MUDs lol.



This game sounds fantastic.. I have thought about trying it.. I have allot of FFXI friends looking at this game, I also have a few FFXIV freinds looking at it. I have friends that have quit FFXI that want to play it... This game could hurt allot of mmo's if it comes off as good as it sounds. I never thought about never playing a FF mmorpg but this game may draw me away if FFXIV doesn't really change end game before this launches or make me feel like I have something invested in this game... I have always liked the elderscrolls games and thought it would make a great MMO.


Edited, Dec 13th 2013 11:19am by Nashred
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#88 Dec 13 2013 at 10:23 AM Rating: Good
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I know people that have been less than impressed with the beta, never-the-less I'll probably give it a shot. I'm waiting for beta entry to Wildstar too, and am seriously considering Star Citizen. It means I'll have to give up sleeping, but wth.
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#89 Dec 13 2013 at 10:38 AM Rating: Excellent
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Does this game even cater to Hard Core players?

This is a great thread, thanks Duo for starting it, and thanks everyone for your insight.

I have plenty of time to play this game. However, I find myself with not much to do come Tuesday night.

On Monday and Tuesday I grind for my myth tomes and get through Coil. Between times craft. Come Wednesday I'm left wondering if things are going to change with 2.1.

I was never into pvp, but this may save the game for some players. If I can watch others, I may enjoy that. I'm hoping that the new content gives me something to do from Wed-Sun. Yes, we will have a daily roulette, so that will have me play once a day for an hour, unless my tomes are capped and it won't be worth it.

Will they raise the myth cap? Or is that how they are keeping people and armor in check?

I'm hopeful, yet sceptical.

Live Long and Level HIGH! MWAH!

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#90 Dec 13 2013 at 10:52 AM Rating: Good
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Grandmomma wrote:
Does this game even cater to Hard Core players?

This is a great thread, thanks Duo for starting it, and thanks everyone for your insight.

I have plenty of time to play this game. However, I find myself with not much to do come Tuesday night.

On Monday and Tuesday I grind for my myth tomes and get through Coil. Between times craft. Come Wednesday I'm left wondering if things are going to change with 2.1.

I was never into pvp, but this may save the game for some players. If I can watch others, I may enjoy that. I'm hoping that the new content gives me something to do from Wed-Sun. Yes, we will have a daily roulette, so that will have me play once a day for an hour, unless my tomes are capped and it won't be worth it.

Will they raise the myth cap? Or is that how they are keeping people and armor in check?

I'm hopeful, yet sceptical.

Live Long and Level HIGH! MWAH!



See this is how I feel too... I also am not big on pvp.. How do you feel about the hm primal fights and the extreme ones?

I am also surprised how civil this thread has been.. Maybe some have come to accept that this game is not 100 percent perfect and there are things that need improvement. I said some good things and bad things about FFXIV and FFXI and did not get my head bashed in for saying something bad..



Edited, Dec 13th 2013 11:59am by Nashred
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#91 Dec 13 2013 at 11:41 AM Rating: Good
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Nashred wrote:
DuoMaxwellxx wrote:
now THIS sounds like an MMO:

" Elder Scrolls Online director Matt Firor has explained why upcoming MMOG has public dungeons.

In an interview with Edge Firor expressed an enthusiasm for public dungeons that he's found disappointingly absent from the current MMO climate.

"Public dungeons were my favourite thing about EverQuest," said Firor, before lamenting, "I can't think of an MMOG since then that's had them."

"When you think back to the fun MMOG moments in the first generation, it's standing there, terrified, in an enclosed space, waiting for someone to come along and save you. We can't do that punitive gameplay that they did in those days, but we can put people together in places where they want to work with others."

One of The Elder Scrolls Online's central ambitions is to encourage players to socialise in the game world rather than just through the interfaces. Firor described these public dungeons as "basically a space that's designed for people who are not grouped together to go into to fight".

He added: "It's a great place for people to connect with other players and they're very important to us, although we still have instanced private dungeons and end-game raid dungeons for groups of up to six players too.

"Each one of these public dungeons is soloable, however, and there are a lot of them, but they're also dangerous. Lots of creatures, very close together. Basically, if you solo it, you'll need to find a place to heal, and then you might find another player there who's exactly like you, and needs help, and then you can fall in together. You'll have met someone that, hopefully, you'll want to stick around with later on."

While Firor will draw from first-generation concepts like public dungeons, he aims to marry it with the questing and levelling template of second-generation MMOs such as World of Warcaft, though no details have been confirmed about how those systems will work."


even mentioned dungeons having traps in it... not even FFXI had hat heck i dont think I seen an online rpg with traps (both player made and in dungeons) since text based MUDs lol.



This game sounds fantastic.. I have thought about trying it.. I have allot of FFXI friends looking at this game, I also have a few FFXIV freinds looking at it. I have friends that have quit FFXI that want to play it... This game could hurt allot of mmo's if it comes off as good as it sounds. I never thought about never playing a FF mmorpg but this game may draw me away if FFXIV doesn't really change end game before this launches or make me feel like I have something invested in this game... I have always liked the elderscrolls games and thought it would make a great MMO.


Edited, Dec 13th 2013 11:19am by Nashred



yup funny thing is I hate all ES games (and western rpgs in general) and always complained that ES games having a HUGE open world to explore but no one else in it is a waste (imagine how much cooler it would be if while youre exploring those huge foresst or a cave and you ran into another player)? ES is a series i think woudl be good with multiplayer but as a single player game its meh. So always said the only way Id finally touch another ES game is if it had multiplayer.... then ESO was announced. SO I plan to try it to find out if its like i hope it woudl be.. then I read about non instanced dungeons, traps and stuff... now its gone from "im gonna try this because i said i would if ES had multiplayer" to a "Im gonna try this and am almost certain Ill actually like it"

More stuff the list seem pretty good/big for a game hats gonna "just come out" (you know.. that excuse ppl use when a rand new game is lacking content/stuff to do.... well looking at this list it would seem ESO forgot to read that memo):

"Here will be a full list of instances in Elder Scrolls Online

Mass PvE battles require maximum attention and ability to play in a group. The more you use synergy the better your results will be. The game requires to interact with others to achieve maximum efficiency. Elder Scrolls Online is not about beating the area. It is about mastering your skills. When you enter the area (instance or dungeon) your enemies know about your presence and will try to kill you and your party. When you fight against monster in ordinary one on one PvE battle the monster uses all his skills against you. But a group of monsters in a dungeon will use synergy combining their skills. You will see their interaction. As soon as you walk into the room monsters begin their own strategies against your party. You will have to be quick and react properly.

When you enter the area monsters start to react. You will see it on the screen. For example someone will blow a horn and enemies will turn their heads to see you. Then they will start their mechanics to protect themselves and kill your party. Elder Scrolls Online is a game where monsters can also interact with each other. A rogue can place a trap and a mage can burn the area so when you enter it you will be caught and will receive damage. ESO requires you to be careful.

One more interesting thing: you will have to clean the whole room in a dungeon not one group of enemies. Most MMO games let you to kill 2-3 enemies in a room without attracting attention of others. ESO does not allow such trick. When you enter the room your enemies know that you are here. The whole room starts to attack your party. It is an endurance and strategic fight.

One of the big differences between ESO and other games is that there are no strict roles for players. There are no tanks, healers, damage dealers, buffers. Roles are not so strict. If you can not kill all monsters in a dungeon that means you can not interact with others properly. Use synergy. You will have fewer troubles and get more rewards. "

"Dungeons and End-Game

There is no Raiding, but players who enjoy raiding will get their fix with 50+ and 50++ content, open dungeons, dungeon extensions and adventure zones.
The development team has promises to give end-game players what they want.
Dungeons have Hard Modes, these are essential extended versions of previous dungeons. Players who beat a dungeon earlier in the game will have a chance to go back and visit new areas of that dungeon. These new areas are extensions of the previous dungeon’s story so the higher your level the more of the story and lore you’ll get access to.
Hard Modes also drop much better loot.
Players who reach the level cap and beat all of their Faction’s PvE quests will have the chance to pick a new Faction’s area to venture through, this is called 50+ and 50++ content. You only get to pick one new faction at a time. If you beat the Ebonheart Pact zone’s you then can choose Daggerfall Covenant or Aldmeri Dominion zones to quest in next. After you beat either of those you can move on to the third zone. These new zones will have much better loot than your original zone and the third zone you choose will have the best loot.
With 50+ and 50++ content you will not see enemy players while exploring enemy faction territories, only NPCs.
If you go into a public dungeon and you’re on a quest to kill a certain mob it will spawn instantly for you even if another group just killed it. This was put in to prevent mob camping.
Dungeons will have traps that you can use to your advantage if you’re cautious enough to spot them.
There are currently 16 dungeons in the game.
There will be no adventure zones at launch.

When I asked Sage about raiding, he said that ESO's adventure zones are designed for larger groups of PvE players. You can actually go into the adventure zones with a small group and accomplish some goals, but there are large areas in these maps dedicated to larger group experiences. There will be some warning when you're about to trigger one of these encounters (and they may even end up instanced), so a small group won't suddenly find itself face to face with a Daedric Prince!

Endgame PvE content will be periodically released in the form of “adventure zones”, which are dangerous and uncivilized regions of Tamriel within which many dangers lurk. These adventure zones will feature content ranging from solo play, to group encounters, and even additional raid content.

There are no separate itemization paths for PvE and PvP gear in ESO. Gear is useful in a universal context regardless of the means by which it is acquired. TES:O there will have various tiers of powerful gear, some of which will be acquired through PvE, while other pieces will require PvP participation to earn. In order to obtain the best possible equipment for your character, you will need to complete a mixture of all types of game content. Loot from PvE will be useable in PvP and vice versa."

still waiting to see what EQ next plans to do though

Edited, Dec 13th 2013 11:55am by DuoMaxwellxx
#92 Dec 13 2013 at 11:49 AM Rating: Good
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DuoMaxwellxx wrote:
now THIS sounds like an MMO:


You should go play it, Duo. :)

I played the beta and I'd hate to spoil it for you...but I must say their computer-generated voices for their NPCs were quite impressive.
#93 Dec 13 2013 at 11:55 AM Rating: Excellent
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SolomonGrundy wrote:
I know people that have been less than impressed with the beta, never-the-less I'll probably give it a shot. I'm waiting for beta entry to Wildstar too, and am seriously considering Star Citizen. It means I'll have to give up sleeping, but wth.


I'm really disappointed with the graphics decisions for both. I know they haven't finished optimizing TESO yet but it's just so... it feels like 1.0 did running on my crappy machine, and it's just grimdark and sepia toned. It's being referred to as 'Skyrim Online' - and not with fondness.

I was really looking forward to Wildstar, but a friend in beta described some of the models as "designed by someone referencing How To Draw Manga Volume 1." I just can't stand to look at it, and that makes me sad because it supposedly has fantastic and innovative gameplay.

So TESO will appeal to the people who think XIV is too light and happy and not hardcore enough. Wildstar will appeal to people who think XIV is too difficult and hate the realistic art style.

Something for everyone, I guess.

Edited, Dec 13th 2013 2:53pm by Catwho
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#94 Dec 13 2013 at 11:58 AM Rating: Decent
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HitomeOfBismarck wrote:
DuoMaxwellxx wrote:
now THIS sounds like an MMO:


You should go play it, Duo. :)

I played the beta and I'd hate to spoil it for you...but I must say their computer-generated voices for their NPCs were quite impressive.



I generally stay away from betas... due to eh lack of content, and all the bugs glitches (i stayed away from DCUO for years because of the beta and I thought the game was actually THAT bad.... but played it again and LOVED it (for 2 months) ... So yeah Ill wait til June (ps4 release date) before I touch ESO
#95 Dec 13 2013 at 11:59 AM Rating: Decent
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Catwho wrote:
SolomonGrundy wrote:
I know people that have been less than impressed with the beta, never-the-less I'll probably give it a shot. I'm waiting for beta entry to Wildstar too, and am seriously considering Star Citizen. It means I'll have to give up sleeping, but wth.


I'm really disappointed with the graphics decisions for both. I know they haven't finished optimizing TESO yet but it's just so... it feels like 1.0 did running on my crappy machine, and it's just grimdark and sepia toned. It's being referred to as 'Skyrim Online' - and not with fondness.

I was really looking forward to Wildstar, but a friend in beta describe some of the models as "designed by someone referencing How To Draw Manga Volume 1." I just can't stand to look at it, and that makes me sad because it supposedly has fantastic and innovative gameplay.

So TESO will appeal to the people who think XIV is too light and happy and not hardcore enough. Wildstar will appeal to people who think XIV is too difficult and hate the realistic art style.

Something for everyone, I guess.


ummm ppl think FFXIV is too difficult? they shouldnt be playing video games AT ALL lol
#96 Dec 13 2013 at 12:16 PM Rating: Good
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Duo,

have you even stepped in Coil right now?

Go clear t4 & t5 and then come tell me the game is not difficult.
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#97 Dec 13 2013 at 12:20 PM Rating: Excellent
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Nashred wrote:
Velerophon wrote:
I agree that rehashing old content shouldn't be done for the sake of it, but for me, if the content brings added value to even a handful of people in game, then it is worth it. I'm quite excited about the hardmode dungeons, as myself, my brother, a friend and his brother all run dungeons 4 man for fun, so adding more/adding challenge to these dungeons is a bonus for us.

And dont forget, even the whole Abyssea chain of expansions was a rehash of old content with new mob placement, the zones were near identical to their Vana counterparts, but that didn't stop people flocking to it in droves.

It will only become an issue for me when they stick Extreme on the front of something, and it literally brings no value to anyone in game. If a dozen people like it and the rest don't, it was worth it for those people, so really, who are we to judge?


Actually Abyssea is when allot of long time players quit and those that stayed said it was the start of the downfall of the game. It seemed to draw back player that quit though because they could level and catch back up so fast. It made the game cheap being able to level so fast.. Then there was fell cleave parties and people started paying to level. Empyrean Weapon weapons were easy to get. Everyone was dressed the same and had the best gear. It started the downfall of LS... And it was just recycled content. Yea it introduce the proc that then go over used by adding it to old content like dynamis.

I dont care if they add hard mode dungeons really but to me it is a cheap fast way to add new content. But I prefer new content all together verses recycled content. It is not enough to hold my attention for long.. Hard mode primals though I have too do for relic but I hate them ...




Edited, Dec 13th 2013 9:56am by Nashred


Yes, pretty much my whole LS left after abyssea landed. Which is the reason why I hate fates in this game. Just a bunch of mindless killing with no strat at all. At least u have to be kinda close to the level to do it, unlike abyssea where a lvl 30 can join a party full of 75's and leech if he had keys. The problem also with this game is that it's way to easy to lvl anything. Want to get a craft to 50? Meh it can take a week. It shouldn't be that easy and quick. That goes for battle and field classes also. Maybe add exp lost to deaths or something. That in itself made me more cautious to just taking on a mob in 11. Now you would need harder mobs to give you that sense of danger(unless you're in coil) but i can't name a mob in this game that is hard or even close to making me not to want to fight it. If they take anything from 11, take it pre abyssea and not post



Edited, Dec 13th 2013 1:21pm by EvilMadMike1982
#98 Dec 13 2013 at 12:23 PM Rating: Good
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QuickShadoww wrote:
Duo,

have you even stepped in Coil right now?

Go clear t4 & t5 and then come tell me the game is not difficult.



having a few hard spots =/= difficult game.... in otherwords yes t4 and 5 ARE hard but FFXIV isnt so hard in general that I could see someone quitting because its too hard to go play something thats "easier" if thats the cause then ANY game woudl be too hard for hat person lol
#99 Dec 13 2013 at 12:25 PM Rating: Excellent
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I'm not a big fan of TES games namely because they are so buggy. I usually wait a year or so before purchasing any Bethesda game because the modding community is quite spectacular for just about all of them. I made the mistake of purchasing Skyrim off the bat and hated it.

I'd still give it a shot when it comes out but the beta was just so bad.

Here's the deal: 14 does a lot of things right but isn't perfect. Currently I do just what Grandmomma said: log on for Monday night, get it all done within about 2 hours, and have nothing to do the rest of the week.

There are a lot of things I'd like to see brought into 14...but after trying many others, I'd say 14 is doing the most 'right' at the moment. So much so that I'm willing to give them some time to see where they're going.

What keeps me motivated is reading what Yoshi P has written/spoken to us, the community. His background as a hardcore MMO player is really important to me and I like that he understands the basics right off the bat. So far, they've been pretty quick at addressing almost all of my concerns that have come up immediately where in other MMOs, I'd have to wait months or years to see a change or response from the development team.

It's also a big issue when the development team hides behind a wall without talking to the community. This was so prominent in 11 and you can even see it in WoW. Yes, they do respond to the community but rarely will they lay out a detailed plan about where they're going and why they're doing what they are to the game.

I don't really understand your original post after reading it again. You are concerned about rehashed content yet this isn't the focus of the next patch. They are adding new content, you know?

But what about the difficulty of this new content?

CT is supposed to be easier than coil and Turn 5 will still be the 'hardest' content in the game or so they say. So if their goal, as they've said, is to upgrade CT and coil with every other patch, that leaves us with nothing to do with our shiny weapons and toys till 2.2 right? This is why I'm OK with them 'rehashing' the primal battles. They provide more challenging stuff immediately instead of having to wait till 2.2.

This is also why you should just wait for this patch before forming a long-term opinion of 14. There is so much riding on this patch and it really has to please quite a few groups of people to retain us. If they fail to deliver, it may be sad for people like me but there are other MMOs in the sea like you and others have mentioned.

Edited, Dec 13th 2013 1:28pm by HitomeOfBismarck
#100 Dec 13 2013 at 12:41 PM Rating: Decent
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ES games full off glitches? I thought that only applied to its console counterparts/.. i thought the PC ones were always fine and bug free.

"Here's the deal: 14 does a lot of things right but isn't perfect. Currently I do just what Grandmomma said: log on for Monday night, get it all done within about 2 hours, and have nothing to do the rest of the week. "

and THAT is the problem.. a good MMO would give you reasons to log in and play EVERY day.. not just one day a week then no more until next week.... is playing 4 days a month worth 15 bucks a month? i think not. if the game restricts itself to content youll only wanna do one day a week it should be F2P, the P2P ones should be of much higher quality (and sort of addicting... how else are they supposed to get you giving them money every month?)
#101 Dec 13 2013 at 12:50 PM Rating: Good
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When 2.1 hits, try to do Coil, CT, PvP, cap your myths in one day.

You have to realize that FFXIV was made for the CASUAL players like myself (30 years old and working around 40-50 hours a week with other RL things to do besides playing video games). Also, they have been working on FFXIV: A REALM REBORN for what? 2 years? The game launched but we can all agree that it was not complete. They launched the game asap to save the Final Fantasy franchise.

That's exaclty what MMO are these days. Sure, someone could make an hardcore MMO and have 100k players but why have 100k players when you can have 1 million?
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