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#52 Dec 11 2013 at 10:39 AM Rating: Decent
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Bidnastyme wrote:
DuoMaxwellxx wrote:
Bidnastyme wrote:
DuoMaxwellxx wrote:
darexius2010, Goblin in Disguise wrote:
[quote=DuoMaxwellxx]and now EXTREME.. what next... ultra? then super saiyajin? lol)


example: "oh noes this guy wants super hard content that only 10% of the playerbase will complete... this is old and archaic and anyone who still thinks like that is evil. the rest of us have been assimilated by the borg and its time he joined our way of thinking, anyone who cannot be assimilated must be eliminated (rated down)"


You're mistaking hard with time consuming. Titan HM is hard to alot of people, getting relics in FFXI was just time consuming, wasn't hard at all. I love both games but nothing in FFXI was hard, just takes alot of time to get stuff.



never saiod getting relic in FFXI was hard... HAERD would be CoP pre nerfs


What's the difference between COP pre nerfs and Titan Hard Mode and Coil, they're all hard to alot of people. The only difference is accessability. Why make content that alienates 90% of your playerbase?




the difference between CoP pre nerf and titan hard mode is although he was hard ther was never a time where I felt like "we cant/wont do this... I could always see the light at the end of the tunnel or the carrot on eh stick dangling in front of me... I just had to reach out and grab it." whereas CoP was like a deep dark pit of despair that you knew/thought you had no way of escape... and it just made you feel wonderful when you accomplished the "impossible". i.e Id compare CoP too a group of untrained farmers fighting a group of battle hardened well trained marines... theres no way the farms would/should win in that situation.... so imagine how they musta felt if they actually DId pull it off? Titian never felt that way

Titan for example can easily be beaten by 5 ppl who know what theyre doing while the other 3 leech (thus titan is not really hard) CoP on the other hand, you could have 2-3 ppl in the party whos done the fight and won 100+ times thus they know what theyre doing... but guess what? Unless EVERYBODY in that party brought their A game there was no way you were gonna win despite having experienced p[layers on your team. THAT is the difference between Titan and CoP
#53 Dec 11 2013 at 10:45 AM Rating: Excellent
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I find myself sitting on the fence between all of these comments and the OP. My preface will be that I am a Legacy player enjoying XIV much as I did XI during my years of participation. I found the storyline in both games enjoyable, at least, to the extent I was able to complete it.

I don't know about rehashing content when this is only the first patch. I do agree, completing content in XI felt more rewarding than it does in XIV. And while XI was a time consuming party grind, I enjoyed the parties, pace and execution of battles. The increased pace of battle in XIV is more inline with the overall MMO genre and let's not forget it makes more sense that you would typically battle several monsters all at once instead of taking 5 minutes to down one before engaging another. Likewise, EXP gain in XIV is paced better for casual players like me who with age and changing circumstance no longer have hours to waste looking for a party.

However, unusual though this may sound, I dislike grinding dungeons repeatedly to farm tomes. One might ask, how is that any different then camping and farming the same monster repeatedly? To the which, I have no good response other than odd personal preference. I feel like I hardly know Eorzea at all, despite having completed the main scenario and obtaining AF2 and relic +1 for multiple jobs. I have been grinding Wanderer's Palace, AK and Castrum Merandium each week so maybe that is why I am feeling apathetic. I no longer find enjoyment in it. Contrast this with the 'old school' party grind experienced in XI, I enjoyed this for nearly a decade. I'm afraid that to me the comparison speaks volumes about my preferences and the longevity of the game for me.

I continue to look forward to the horizon, what Yoshi did with XIV 1.xx before the end was nothing short of a miracle and I wonder what he might have in store for 2.xx and beyond. I hope as the game ages it can find new ways to appeal to my admittedly unusual preferences. I just hope I can get to know Eorzea as well as I knew Vanadiel.
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#54 Dec 11 2013 at 10:45 AM Rating: Good
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DuoMaxwellxx wrote:
Unless EVERYBODY in that party brought their A game there was no way you were gonna win despite having experienced players on your team.

As someone who beat CoP pre-nerf; if by "bring their A game" you mean "zerg the weakest mob, wipe, reraise, repeat" then yes, everyone had to "bring their A game."

Edited, Dec 11th 2013 6:18pm by DomfranciscoOfIfrit
#55 Dec 11 2013 at 10:46 AM Rating: Good
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DuoMaxwellxx wrote:
Bidnastyme wrote:
DuoMaxwellxx wrote:
Bidnastyme wrote:
DuoMaxwellxx wrote:
darexius2010, Goblin in Disguise wrote:
[quote=DuoMaxwellxx]and now EXTREME.. what next... ultra? then super saiyajin? lol)


example: "oh noes this guy wants super hard content that only 10% of the playerbase will complete... this is old and archaic and anyone who still thinks like that is evil. the rest of us have been assimilated by the borg and its time he joined our way of thinking, anyone who cannot be assimilated must be eliminated (rated down)"


You're mistaking hard with time consuming. Titan HM is hard to alot of people, getting relics in FFXI was just time consuming, wasn't hard at all. I love both games but nothing in FFXI was hard, just takes alot of time to get stuff.



never saiod getting relic in FFXI was hard... HAERD would be CoP pre nerfs


What's the difference between COP pre nerfs and Titan Hard Mode and Coil, they're all hard to alot of people. The only difference is accessability. Why make content that alienates 90% of your playerbase?




the difference between CoP pre nerf and titan hard mode is although he was hard ther was never a time where I felt like "we cant/wont do this... I could always see the light at the end of the tunnel or the carrot on eh stick dangling in front of me... I just had to reach out and grab it." whereas CoP was like a deep dark pit of despair that you knew/thought you had no way of escape... and it just made you feel wonderful when you accomplished the "impossible". i.e Id compare CoP too a group of untrained farmers fighting a group of battle hardened well trained marines... theres no way the farms would/should win in that situation.... so imagine how they musta felt if they actually DId pull it off? Titian never felt that way

Titan for example can easily be beaten by 5 ppl who know what theyre doing while the other 3 leech (thus titan is not really hard) CoP on the other hand, you could have 2-3 ppl in the party whos done the fight and won 100+ times thus they know what theyre doing... but guess what? Unless EVERYBODY in that party brought their A game there was no way you were gonna win despite having experienced p[layers on your team. THAT is the difference between Titan and CoP


I guess we're different, I felt no different beating COP pre-nerf and beating Titan, they both felt fun, hard, and rewarding. If you were carried, of course it didnt feel good but failed pugs after failed pugs on Titan definitely made me feel really good when I beat him which basically the same feeling I felt when I kept on failing COP unitl I beat it.
#56 Dec 11 2013 at 11:46 AM Rating: Decent
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Bidnastyme wrote:
DuoMaxwellxx wrote:
Bidnastyme wrote:
DuoMaxwellxx wrote:
Bidnastyme wrote:
DuoMaxwellxx wrote:
darexius2010, Goblin in Disguise wrote:
DuoMaxwellxx wrote:
and now EXTREME.. what next... ultra? then super saiyajin? lol)


example: "oh noes this guy wants super hard content that only 10% of the playerbase will complete... this is old and archaic and anyone who still thinks like that is evil. the rest of us have been assimilated by the borg and its time he joined our way of thinking, anyone who cannot be assimilated must be eliminated (rated down)"


You're mistaking hard with time consuming. Titan HM is hard to alot of people, getting relics in FFXI was just time consuming, wasn't hard at all. I love both games but nothing in FFXI was hard, just takes alot of time to get stuff.



never saiod getting relic in FFXI was hard... HAERD would be CoP pre nerfs


What's the difference between COP pre nerfs and Titan Hard Mode and Coil, they're all hard to alot of people. The only difference is accessability. Why make content that alienates 90% of your playerbase?




the difference between CoP pre nerf and titan hard mode is although he was hard ther was never a time where I felt like "we cant/wont do this... I could always see the light at the end of the tunnel or the carrot on eh stick dangling in front of me... I just had to reach out and grab it." whereas CoP was like a deep dark pit of despair that you knew/thought you had no way of escape... and it just made you feel wonderful when you accomplished the "impossible". i.e Id compare CoP too a group of untrained farmers fighting a group of battle hardened well trained marines... theres no way the farms would/should win in that situation.... so imagine how they musta felt if they actually DId pull it off? Titian never felt that way

Titan for example can easily be beaten by 5 ppl who know what theyre doing while the other 3 leech (thus titan is not really hard) CoP on the other hand, you could have 2-3 ppl in the party whos done the fight and won 100+ times thus they know what theyre doing... but guess what? Unless EVERYBODY in that party brought their A game there was no way you were gonna win despite having experienced p[layers on your team. THAT is the difference between Titan and CoP


I guess we're different, I felt no different beating COP pre-nerf and beating Titan, they both felt fun, hard, and rewarding. If you were carried, of course it didnt feel good but failed pugs after failed pugs on Titan definitely made me feel really good when I beat him which basically the same feeling I felt when I kept on failing COP unitl I beat it.



I dont understand how anyone can compare the two..
titan is one fight where cop is a story line with lots of fight and progression..
To me the Primal fights are not hard it is just annoying in this game. To many of the fights in FFXIV rely on everybody being lag free too.


Bidnastyme wrote:
DuoMaxwellxx wrote:
Bidnastyme wrote:
DuoMaxwellxx wrote:
[quote=darexius2010, Goblin in Disguise][quote=DuoMaxwellxx]and now EXTREME.. what next... ultra? then super saiyajin? lol)


example: "oh noes this guy wants super hard content that only 10% of the playerbase will complete... this is old and archaic and anyone who still thinks like that is evil. the rest of us have been assimilated by the borg and its time he joined our way of thinking, anyone who cannot be assimilated must be eliminated (rated down)"


You're mistaking hard with time consuming. Titan HM is hard to alot of people, getting relics in FFXI was just time consuming, wasn't hard at all. I love both games but nothing in FFXI was hard, just takes alot of time to get stuff.



never saiod getting relic in FFXI was hard... HAERD would be CoP pre nerfs


What's the difference between COP pre nerfs and Titan Hard Mode and Coil, they're all hard to alot of people. The only difference is accessability. Why make content that alienates 90% of your playerbase?


I agree...










Edited, Dec 11th 2013 12:50pm by Nashred
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#57 Dec 11 2013 at 11:47 AM Rating: Decent
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DomfranciscoOfIfrit wrote:
DuoMaxwellxx wrote:
Unless EVERYBODY in that party brought their A game there was no way you were gonna win despite having experienced players on your team.

As someone who beat CoP pre-nerf; if by "A game" you mean "zerg the weakest mob, wipe, reraise, repeat" then yes, everyone had to bring their "A game."



the only fight i remember that tactic being used was mithra trackers fight.. and ebven then you had to be s,art enoug to come up with that plan on your own... as WE did... consideing we didnt have a smn or two to astral fllow all thre eto death like everyone else was/had done so we had to come up with something that worked for us with no help or pre existing guides to tell us that themselves
#58 Dec 11 2013 at 12:36 PM Rating: Decent
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I think Everquest Next will be more to your liking Duo. Most content will be open world, there will be a mix of contested content, travelling will not be instant, nights will be dark and dangerous etc. I think for anyone who misses the older type of MMOs Everquest Next will be right up their ally with old ideas mixed in with new ones.

Now if you want exactly the level of time consuming content older games had you will probably be dissapointed, but I think it will be a step (probably quite a big one compared to games like ARR) in the direction a lot of people have been missing lately.

Personally I am happy because I think there has been a lack of those types of games in the years since WoW and I am all for a wider span of options for gamers.

Edited, Dec 11th 2013 1:37pm by Belcrono
#59 Dec 11 2013 at 12:52 PM Rating: Default
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ool all i really want back is HUGE explorable world and NON instanced explorable dungeons.... the other stuff would be nice too (like weapons that take a million years to get and super hard fights) but I can live without those.... just bring back the huge worlds and non instanced dungeons and Im happy
#60 Dec 11 2013 at 1:16 PM Rating: Excellent
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I kind of enjoy crafting for the sake of itself. There is something really satisfactory about pinning down the right rotation to get consistent high quality items. I was churning out HQ apple pies last night in Quarrymill, cheering every time it worked and I was about 80% chance of hitting HQ.

Same thing with fishing. It's relaxing.

And no, "most" people are not at endgame. I'd say maybe half the player base has at least one battle class at 50, and not all of those are going to be end gamers. I certainly have no desire to get into the rate race of endgame when all I want to do is log on and have fun for an hour or two before I go sleep.
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#61 Dec 12 2013 at 1:38 AM Rating: Good
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FilthMcNasty wrote:
I wonder where XI would be today if Project Rapture was never announced. What if instead, SE decided to take all the money they spent developing XIV(money they had as a result of XI mind you) and invested it back into the game. What if they had applied the same philosophy they currently have with XIV to their first MMO...

My biggest fear would be Tanaka would still be at the helm, but I think some riding high on nostalgia would answer what they knew, but better in the old way. And in the end, I'm not sure if this figurative XI would've survived without adaptations you see present in XIV or even hitting XI now. I would imagine a graphical overhaul would've taken place. PS2 may have been begrudgingly dropped. PS3/4 version? Hard to say. Either way, the Final "Schedule My Life Around It To Play" Fantasy XI I played circa-2006 in endgame isn't really something I want to experience again. Finally getting **** was nice, but not and all the other related trials was certainly draining.

As for current XI, I'm surprised there isn't a split sub option with XIV. But there's also a part of me that sees this freebie campaign as SE experimenting with F2P and comparing returning players to how many actually wind up resubbing. If not many stay, I could see them looking at the F2P model more seriously since it's obvious people DID want to peek back. It'd just be a matter of better discerning what they want and would pay for. And in terms of development kismet, I do think XIV is due to pay for XI for a few years. Assuming they can maintain that rough 1.5m sub number, that's probably more than current XI makes in 6+ months.
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#62 Dec 12 2013 at 10:01 AM Rating: Good
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Seriha wrote:
FilthMcNasty wrote:
I wonder where XI would be today if Project Rapture was never announced. What if instead, SE decided to take all the money they spent developing XIV(money they had as a result of XI mind you) and invested it back into the game. What if they had applied the same philosophy they currently have with XIV to their first MMO...

My biggest fear would be Tanaka would still be at the helm, but I think some riding high on nostalgia would answer what they knew, but better in the old way. And in the end, I'm not sure if this figurative XI would've survived without adaptations you see present in XIV or even hitting XI now. I would imagine a graphical overhaul would've taken place. PS2 may have been begrudgingly dropped. PS3/4 version? Hard to say. Either way, the Final "Schedule My Life Around It To Play" Fantasy XI I played circa-2006 in endgame isn't really something I want to experience again. Finally getting sh*t was nice, but not and all the other related trials was certainly draining.

As for current XI, I'm surprised there isn't a split sub option with XIV. But there's also a part of me that sees this freebie campaign as SE experimenting with F2P and comparing returning players to how many actually wind up resubbing. If not many stay, I could see them looking at the F2P model more seriously since it's obvious people DID want to peek back. It'd just be a matter of better discerning what they want and would pay for. And in terms of development kismet, I do think XIV is due to pay for XI for a few years. Assuming they can maintain that rough 1.5m sub number, that's probably more than current XI makes in 6+ months.


You said so much in only two paragraphs,, LOL.

Anyway I do not think they are looking at free to play. I talked to a friend and he said with he start up of FFXIV allot of people have left FFXI. Think they are just trying to get people to play it. They have made their money there, but who knows maybe you are right.

FFXI had great stuff but in the end was becoming mediocre. I really was looking to move on.. Like I said 0-50 I had a lot of fun with FFXIV it was new and refreshing. How do you hold people long term is the real question?.. The more I play the more I start to see more problems with FFXIV.. FFXI had allot of good and should not be overlooked. Why not draw form what was successful from the other game.. Why not draw those people over that are still playing.. Cheaper to run one game vs two. I dont want this to be the exact same game either. Also if they would have done FFXI all over I would not want it to be the exact same game either. There is something about end game so far that just puts a bad taste in my mouth. I know allot of others are saying the same thing. This game was supposed to be more casual and to me it is not much more casual. Hopefully the patch solves some of that and it sounds like it will.. It will give people a better chance at tombs, that dont want to run dungeons all the time.

Example that happened last night and one of the reasons I have a bad taste in my mouth.. We ran WP 3 times for tombs last night.. The second round we had 4 different tanks. We had a DPS that had regular AF gear on. We could not bring down the second boss. The tank goes to the DD I think it is a gear check issue with you.. The dps goes I thought you ran this for Tombs to get better gear. Well the tank left. New tank comes in and someone dies in the hallway so he leaves. We had 4 tanks..I stayed and felt bad for the dude.. Really this is casual, you dont have good gear people dont want to play with you, you cant do a speed run tanks drop out. Last night My girlfriend accidentally agroed some mobs trying to avoid the giant tomberry in there and this dude start calling here a newbie and left, she felt so bad. You dont play a game to feel bad. If these isolated cases it would be different but it happens everyday. Were casual with this game way more than FFXI.. But rarely did I see people get treated like that in FFXI. We are pretty much your average player trying to make it through end game, we didn't rush to get there and enjoyed the story.. .. This game promotes this behavior. In FFXI the good players took pride in helping those coming up. You know everyone blames everyone else. Well the next rounds we ran in less than 30 min each so who were the bad people in these runs?

Another thing is all these people having to buy titan runs.. Some of them are really good players but they have to buy a titan run just to get a relic. something is wrong with a game that is that frustrating just to complete a titan run that people are willing to spend gil to beat it. You know what that makes me think, what chance do I have.. In FFXI I never felt like that, I felt eventually with time I would.. Well if they dont give another path...

I agree with you, I dont want my life to revolve around a game like it did around FFXI but I at least want that feeling of excitement about getting on the game. I remember I couldn't wait to get out of work to come and explore FFXI and I had that feeling for years. I loved researching and making to do lists etc. . I had somewhat that feeling in the beginning FFXIV but I dont have that pull and sometimes it almost feels like a chore now and the game is only a few months old. I know the game is new and there is more content coming but how fast will we get through this new content. Also content needs to be new and exciting. Some of it is more rehashed primal fight which I find more frustrating than hard.

Again keeping players is the hard part and keeping it so new players come into the game. New and different is the key. FFXI real problem was bring in new blood. If you are not bring in new players it is a slow death.. you have to provide a path for new players to catch up.. It sound like they may have a path to help with this too..

One of the biggest pluses I do like about FFXIV is I dont need a wiki for everything I do like crafting recipes..








Edited, Dec 12th 2013 12:03pm by Nashred

Edited, Dec 12th 2013 12:13pm by Nashred
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#63 Dec 12 2013 at 1:46 PM Rating: Good
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I believe that right now, FFXIV is a game that didn't have any expansion, nor did it have any content patches added to it (first patch incoming soon). You basically have the main story line, and one end-game dungeon (BC) and 3 hard mode fight at the end of the main storyline that are more-or-less part of the main story line.

I understand that the "end-game" content had to be there for the legacy players, that needed the be challenged with their already level 50 character. I think that's probably why there is a mytho cap /turn cap on the end-game. To allow new player to catch-up faster by slowing a bit of the progress of the already level 50 player. I believe that the "new" end-game content will have less limitation like that the further along we go in the game.

But anyway, before anybody put some nostalgia tinted glasses and compare it to FFXI, I would like to compare the game with FFXI at the same state.

What was the end of the first storyline in FFXI, before any expansion or content patches? That's right: Shadowlord.

We are only as far as Shadowlord guys, and already the story, content-wise, fun-wise and etc is very advanced compared to what it was before.

What I meant is, for a game without any content patches and expansion, this game have tons of stuff to do. Right now, yes, the end-game seems a bit repetitive, That's because we only have one kind of end-game: BC and farming tombstone.

In less than a week, we'll add: 3 more dungeon to do at level 50, Crystal-tower, daily beastmen quest, Housing, etc. I am in a small FC and already, some members have problem capping mythos for the week for lack of time. I don't know how they will be able to do all that content each time, some will have to skip some parts.

So yeah, let's everyone take a deep breath, relax a bit and remember to have fun playing :)
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#64 Dec 12 2013 at 1:59 PM Rating: Excellent
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Pryssant wrote:
What was the end of the first storyline in FFXI, before any expansion or content patches? That's right: Shadowlord.


Nope!

Shadow Lord fight was a content patch. Northern areas were not available upon release.
#65 Dec 12 2013 at 2:21 PM Rating: Decent
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Pryssant wrote:

We are only as far as Shadowlord guys, and already the story, content-wise,)



Oh yeah the ROAD to 50 was geat.. its the boringand repitiveness without 20 dfferent things t choose from that you hav eto do AT 50 that make sme wanna kill kittens lol. sure ffxi endgame was also repeating the same THINGS over and over... difference is the list of thosethings was MUCH longer than AK, WP and Coils... thats r things.... I can list at least 20 in ffxi lol

but yeah going through the story in FFXIv is fine (still doesnt compare to CoP storywise though.. but neither does any of the other story mission in FFXI... so far aside from CoP all the other stories in FFXI and XIV feel like "ill just throw a story in this game to say our mmo actually ha a story and not just mindless grinding with no purpose to cap like every other mmo. CoP is so far the first and only FFmmo story Ive sen that itt looked like the devs actually put some thought into). but it took FFxi one expansion before we got CoP.... since the team now has years of MMO experience with FFXI.. Im hoping XIV gves us our CoP like expansion (at least storywise if not difficulty wise) right out the gate with its first expansion)
#66 Dec 12 2013 at 2:43 PM Rating: Good
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The tank goes to the DD I think it is a gear check issue with you.. The dps goes I thought you ran this for Tombs to get better gear. Well the tank left. New tank comes in and someone dies in the hallway so he leaves. We had 4 tanks..I stayed and felt bad for the dude.. Really this is casual, you dont have good gear people dont want to play with you, you cant do a speed run tanks drop out. Last night My girlfriend accidentally agroed some mobs trying to avoid the giant tomberry in there and this dude start calling here a newbie and left, she felt so bad. You dont play a game to feel bad.


I was having the same issue. I was a MNK in af trying to do Wanderer's Palace for the first time and they let out a sigh. When we went to run it the tank would constantly die and from there they spent 30 minutes ******** about each other's gear. So that party ended before it really began and the very next run I qued for, the same issue with the tank and healer complaining about one another happened. I can't get anything done because everyone just wants to ***** and complain about each other. So I decided to just wait until my FC got to endgame and run with them and in the meantime level other classes and jobs, but it's taking so long that I'm worried that by the time I'm able to actually run WP, AK or Coil regularly, a new Patch or expansion will come out voiding the current gear, in which I'd have to start all over again. I mean what is it about this game that is creating such animosity and eliticism?

Edited, Dec 12th 2013 12:44pm by Niklz
#67 Dec 12 2013 at 2:49 PM Rating: Excellent
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DuoMaxwellxx wrote:
Pryssant wrote:

We are only as far as Shadowlord guys, and already the story, content-wise,)



Oh yeah the ROAD to 50 was geat.. its the boringand repitiveness without 20 dfferent things t choose from that you hav eto do AT 50 that make sme wanna kill kittens lol. sure ffxi endgame was also repeating the same THINGS over and over... difference is the list of thosethings was MUCH longer than AK, WP and Coils... thats r things.... I can list at least 20 in ffxi lol

but yeah going through the story in FFXIv is fine (still doesnt compare to CoP storywise though.. but neither does any of the other story mission in FFXI... so far aside from CoP all the other stories in FFXI and XIV feel like "ill just throw a story in this game to say our mmo actually ha a story and not just mindless grinding with no purpose to cap like every other mmo. CoP is so far the first and only FFmmo story Ive sen that itt looked like the devs actually put some thought into). but it took FFxi one expansion before we got CoP.... since the team now has years of MMO experience with FFXI.. Im hoping XIV gves us our CoP like expansion (at least storywise if not difficulty wise) right out the gate with its first expansion)


Which is funny, because that's exactly the opposite of how every Final Fantasy game is made. They always start with a story script first.

From what I understand, the Zilart storyline was written as they were doing major development on vanilla FFXI. Then, as they were developing the content for Zilart and preparing the game for North American release, they were writing the story for CoP. The battle content, specific fights, mechanics, etc are all pulled into the mix once the initial script is done. I'm sure a lot is modified or altered along the way, but FF games have always started with a story and gone from there.

That said, I won't disagree that CoP was a more polished expansion than Zilart. ToAU had the tightest story, however. CoP and WotG just kind of wandered all over the place sometimes and you needed a friggin roadmad to keep track of where each NPC was and wtf was going on. ToAU? Way more tightly integrated with all the battles and zones and NPCs. Blue Mage lore alone was a huge chunk of the story.
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#68 Dec 12 2013 at 3:10 PM Rating: Excellent
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It's great to be the tank because I don't have to worry about the tank leaving. I sure find AK to be smoother run because, for whatever reason, the Giant Tonberry in WP just makes people panic and flub in their pants.

So more than once now I get a party where 3/4 of the party are in fresh AF, maybe 1 or 2 pieces of DL. Sometimes I even run into people who have only run AK a handful of times. For some reason, these are the parties that are the most rewarding.

The DRG gets killed by the giant AoE from the first boss? Ok, let's try again. The WHM gets Repelled off the Demon Wall? Whatever. The BLM wipes the party by letting the Ball of Death drop right in the middle of the party on the final boss? It's cool. Live and learn.

In every case these players have learned from their mistakes, and we go on to finish the run. Granted some of these runs take 60+ minutes, but what am I in a hurry for? Nothing. Coil to reset next week? The patch to release? Nope. No hurry at all.

It is extra fun to help these players struggle up through those first few runs and know that they are having a much better time because the whole party is being supportive. The victories with these parties involve dancing and cheering and smiley emotes.

I'll take a newbie run over a silent speed run with veterans any day.
#69 Dec 12 2013 at 3:25 PM Rating: Decent
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Niklz wrote:
Quote:
The tank goes to the DD I think it is a gear check issue with you.. The dps goes I thought you ran this for Tombs to get better gear. Well the tank left. New tank comes in and someone dies in the hallway so he leaves. We had 4 tanks..I stayed and felt bad for the dude.. Really this is casual, you dont have good gear people dont want to play with you, you cant do a speed run tanks drop out. Last night My girlfriend accidentally agroed some mobs trying to avoid the giant tomberry in there and this dude start calling here a newbie and left, she felt so bad. You dont play a game to feel bad.


I was having the same issue. I was a MNK in af trying to do Wanderer's Palace for the first time and they let out a sigh. When we went to run it the tank would constantly die and from there they spent 30 minutes ******** about each other's gear. So that party ended before it really began and the very next run I qued for, the same issue with the tank and healer complaining about one another happened. I can't get anything done because everyone just wants to ***** and complain about each other. So I decided to just wait until my FC got to endgame and run with them and in the meantime level other classes and jobs, but it's taking so long that I'm worried that by the time I'm able to actually run WP, AK or Coil regularly, a new Patch or expansion will come out voiding the current gear, in which I'd have to start all over again. I mean what is it about this game that is creating such animosity and eliticism?

Edited, Dec 12th 2013 12:44pm by Niklz


Oh I just listed two stories I have run WP probably 20 times or more.. Way over 50 percent are bad with DF. Almost always because of the tank, either because they are just ok or the good ones leave.. I can tell within minutes if it will go smooth or not. But even when we get a good tank someone will mess up and the tank just leaves. I am a whm and WP really is not hard to heal through.. Most tanks want a DPS that can AOE well on the second Boss when the adds pop..A blm or a Bard with a relic help.. I have got through perfectly fine with a dragoon or mnk though, really depends on the tank able to grab pops on the second boss but the adds need to be killed quick or things go bad... It is hard on the tank really though because he has to hold them while dps are doing aoe's pulling all that hate. If they are not grouped then some get away.. The thing when tanking single mobs most tanks are good, when tanking multiple it is way harder and that usually defines the really good ones. Tanking in this game is not easy.

Problem right now is you need to run it way more than what a FC is going to want to do with you... Good thing is my FC has at least two parties a night running it. Bad part is it is only 4 people run.....

Part of the issue is they made 0 - 50 way to easy,, End game way too hard with no content in the middle to build people up and get them better. But end game aint just hard it is frustrating. 2.1 should give people another avenue for tombs though... Hard dont bother me.








Edited, Dec 12th 2013 4:45pm by Nashred

Edited, Dec 12th 2013 4:47pm by Nashred

Edited, Dec 12th 2013 4:48pm by Nashred
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#70 Dec 12 2013 at 3:47 PM Rating: Good
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Gnu wrote:
It's great to be the tank because I don't have to worry about the tank leaving. I sure find AK to be smoother run because, for whatever reason, the Giant Tonberry in WP just makes people panic and flub in their pants.

So more than once now I get a party where 3/4 of the party are in fresh AF, maybe 1 or 2 pieces of DL. Sometimes I even run into people who have only run AK a handful of times. For some reason, these are the parties that are the most rewarding.

The DRG gets killed by the giant AoE from the first boss? Ok, let's try again. The WHM gets Repelled off the Demon Wall? Whatever. The BLM wipes the party by letting the Ball of Death drop right in the middle of the party on the final boss? It's cool. Live and learn.

In every case these players have learned from their mistakes, and we go on to finish the run. Granted some of these runs take 60+ minutes, but what am I in a hurry for? Nothing. Coil to reset next week? The patch to release? Nope. No hurry at all.

It is extra fun to help these players struggle up through those first few runs and know that they are having a much better time because the whole party is being supportive. The victories with these parties involve dancing and cheering and smiley emotes.

I'll take a newbie run over a silent speed run with veterans any day.


This is how I look at things as well, and oddly enough, I usually play tanks in MMOs. I'm only level 27 right now, and I make sure to let my party members know that this is my first time running whatever dungeon we're doing. If they have a problem with that, they can leave before we start and I promise my wait to replace them will be longer than their wait to replace me.

For the last 5 or 6 years I played WoW, I was a paladin tank. I was never on the cutting edge of raiding, and I never got to see all of the content. But I also had no problem learning the fights and then teaching the next wave of level-capped characters how to do them. There's something to be said for seeing a group that you put on your back and carried through the instance, finally click all together and the boss goes down.

Edited, Dec 12th 2013 3:48pm by Bigdaddyjug
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#71 Dec 12 2013 at 3:51 PM Rating: Decent
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DuoMaxwellxx wrote:
Pryssant wrote:

We are only as far as Shadowlord guys, and already the story, content-wise,)



Oh yeah the ROAD to 50 was geat.. its the boringand repitiveness without 20 dfferent things t choose from that you hav eto do AT 50 that make sme wanna kill kittens lol. sure ffxi endgame was also repeating the same THINGS over and over... difference is the list of thosethings was MUCH longer than AK, WP and Coils... thats r things.... I can list at least 20 in ffxi lol

but yeah going through the story in FFXIv is fine (still doesnt compare to CoP storywise though.. but neither does any of the other story mission in FFXI... so far aside from CoP all the other stories in FFXI and XIV feel like "ill just throw a story in this game to say our mmo actually ha a story and not just mindless grinding with no purpose to cap like every other mmo. CoP is so far the first and only FFmmo story Ive sen that itt looked like the devs actually put some thought into). but it took FFxi one expansion before we got CoP.... since the team now has years of MMO experience with FFXI.. Im hoping XIV gves us our CoP like expansion (at least storywise if not difficulty wise) right out the gate with its first expansion)


One of my biggest complaints in FFXI was story,. They RPG's which means there should be story. Most missions in the game made no sense either. I dont know who ever figured out what you need to do on some of them or even how...... Thanks for a wiki for that game.. Even after doing the missions they still made no sense, Still it was super fun game and everything felt like accomplishment.

One of the things this game does do better is story and quest. The quest could be a little more varied but defiantly better than FFXI



Edited, Dec 12th 2013 5:54pm by Nashred

Edited, Dec 12th 2013 5:55pm by Nashred
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#72 Dec 12 2013 at 9:58 PM Rating: Decent
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It would be great if the first expansion had a story comparable to Promathia, but keep the mechanics and gimmicks out! Please keep the gated- area concept far away from XIV. Same for Snoll Tzar battles and other fights that require specific jobs to complete effectively. The absolute LAST thing XIV needs is anything that encourages job discrimination.
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#73 Dec 12 2013 at 10:57 PM Rating: Good
You mean like every boss in the game that has circular AOE's and cone attacks for melee to dodge? I'm looking at you, Chimera, Caduceus, and ADS...
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#74 Dec 13 2013 at 1:15 AM Rating: Decent
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Seriha wrote:
FilthMcNasty wrote:
I wonder where XI would be today if Project Rapture was never announced. What if instead, SE decided to take all the money they spent developing XIV(money they had as a result of XI mind you) and invested it back into the game. What if they had applied the same philosophy they currently have with XIV to their first MMO...
And in the end, I'm not sure if this figurative XI would've survived without adaptations you see present in XIV or even hitting XI now. I would imagine a graphical overhaul would've taken place. PS2 may have been begrudgingly dropped. PS3/4 version? Hard to say. Either way, the Final "Schedule My Life Around It To Play" Fantasy XI I played circa-2006 in endgame isn't really something I want to experience again. Finally getting sh*t was nice, but not and all the other related trials was certainly draining.


I think a decade is outside the statute of limitations on being forced to upgrade. XI isn't a resource hog and doesn't require much to run well. Anyone who ******* about it should be directed to a google search for 10 year old technology. If you played XI at a more than casual level then you've already invested the time. People were comfortable with it taking ages to farm gear, crafting levels, merits, ect. because they were led to believe that SE would never be raising the level cap.

PS2 may have been begrudgingly dropped? It only took a few years to overhaul what 1.0 was into what ARR is. I think all they really needed to do was update XI's engine and UI and push for a PS3 release. XIV runs on a PS3 and after launching on PS2, it just seemed like the next step for Vana'diel. XI was at it's peak around the time of ToAU. Ironically, ToAU released roughly the same amount of time before the PS3 as XIV did compared to PS4.

Seriha wrote:
And in terms of development kismet, I do think XIV is due to pay for XI for a few years. Assuming they can maintain that rough 1.5m sub number, that's probably more than current XI makes in 6+ months.

I'm pretty sure that game could be aggressively developed throughout the remainder of our lifetime and have enough money left over for a 6 pack. Had they invested more of those profits back into the game, I don't really have any doubt that XI would still thrive and XIV would instead have been Lightning Returns. That said, I still can't figure out why they went away from XI. They are competing with themselves in an already saturated market. Does not compute.


Edited, Dec 13th 2013 2:17am by FilthMcNasty
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#75 Dec 13 2013 at 2:06 AM Rating: Good
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Catwho wrote:
DuoMaxwellxx wrote:
Pryssant wrote:

We are only as far as Shadowlord guys, and already the story, content-wise,)



Oh yeah the ROAD to 50 was geat.. its the boringand repitiveness without 20 dfferent things t choose from that you hav eto do AT 50 that make sme wanna kill kittens lol. sure ffxi endgame was also repeating the same THINGS over and over... difference is the list of thosethings was MUCH longer than AK, WP and Coils... thats r things.... I can list at least 20 in ffxi lol

but yeah going through the story in FFXIv is fine (still doesnt compare to CoP storywise though.. but neither does any of the other story mission in FFXI... so far aside from CoP all the other stories in FFXI and XIV feel like "ill just throw a story in this game to say our mmo actually ha a story and not just mindless grinding with no purpose to cap like every other mmo. CoP is so far the first and only FFmmo story Ive sen that itt looked like the devs actually put some thought into). but it took FFxi one expansion before we got CoP.... since the team now has years of MMO experience with FFXI.. Im hoping XIV gves us our CoP like expansion (at least storywise if not difficulty wise) right out the gate with its first expansion)


Which is funny, because that's exactly the opposite of how every Final Fantasy game is made. They always start with a story script first.

From what I understand, the Zilart storyline was written as they were doing major development on vanilla FFXI. Then, as they were developing the content for Zilart and preparing the game for North American release, they were writing the story for CoP. The battle content, specific fights, mechanics, etc are all pulled into the mix once the initial script is done. I'm sure a lot is modified or altered along the way, but FF games have always started with a story and gone from there.

That said, I won't disagree that CoP was a more polished expansion than Zilart. ToAU had the tightest story, however. CoP and WotG just kind of wandered all over the place sometimes and you needed a friggin roadmad to keep track of where each NPC was and wtf was going on. ToAU? Way more tightly integrated with all the battles and zones and NPCs. Blue Mage lore alone was a huge chunk of the story.



nah COP story had better character development and the plot was fast paced enough that you were dying too see what happens next.... I mean from the very beginning the troops riding into delkfutts tower, a guard being knocked into a wall, bahamut riding from the sea, all those solders invading upper jeuno to drag sethulus out of where they were keeping him.... meeting tenzen, fighting tenzen.... meeting prishe, going into promyvions... there was NEVER s slow/dull moment in that story line... I cant say the same for the others (or ffxiv's)


and yea i know hey start with story first what I was saying is CoP seems to be the only one they actually TRIED with.. I mean i could compare and even say CoP is just as good or better than a few of the single player FF games plots.... I cant say that about ANY of the other storylines in XI or XIV
#76 Dec 13 2013 at 2:10 AM Rating: Good
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Nashred wrote:
DuoMaxwellxx wrote:
Pryssant wrote:

We are only as far as Shadowlord guys, and already the story, content-wise,)



Oh yeah the ROAD to 50 was geat.. its the boringand repitiveness without 20 dfferent things t choose from that you hav eto do AT 50 that make sme wanna kill kittens lol. sure ffxi endgame was also repeating the same THINGS over and over... difference is the list of thosethings was MUCH longer than AK, WP and Coils... thats r things.... I can list at least 20 in ffxi lol

but yeah going through the story in FFXIv is fine (still doesnt compare to CoP storywise though.. but neither does any of the other story mission in FFXI... so far aside from CoP all the other stories in FFXI and XIV feel like "ill just throw a story in this game to say our mmo actually ha a story and not just mindless grinding with no purpose to cap like every other mmo. CoP is so far the first and only FFmmo story Ive sen that itt looked like the devs actually put some thought into). but it took FFxi one expansion before we got CoP.... since the team now has years of MMO experience with FFXI.. Im hoping XIV gves us our CoP like expansion (at least storywise if not difficulty wise) right out the gate with its first expansion)


One of my biggest complaints in FFXI was story,. They RPG's which means there should be story. Most missions in the game made no sense either. I dont know who ever figured out what you need to do on some of them or even how...... Thanks for a wiki for that game.. Even after doing the missions they still made no sense, Still it was super fun game and everything felt like accomplishment.

One of the things this game does do better is story and quest. The quest could be a little more varied but defiantly better than FFXI


Edited, Dec 12th 2013 5:54pm by Nashred

Edited, Dec 12th 2013 5:55pm by Nashred


umm CoP story.... as for figuring out what you need to do... umm not every game holds your hand and has big icons above characters or waypoint indicators for example:

Final Fantasy 1
Final Fantasy II
Dragon Warrior
Dragon Quest 8

are a few of the games i can name off the top of my head where you werent spoonfed directions and had to explore/figure out the next step yourself... yet no one complained about those games



Edited, Dec 13th 2013 2:11am by DuoMaxwellxx
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