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IS THIS the current state of mmo's too?Follow

#102 Dec 13 2013 at 1:05 PM Rating: Default
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QuickShadoww wrote:
When 2.1 hits, try to do Coil, CT, PvP, cap your myths in one day.

You have to realize that FFXIV was made for the CASUAL players like myself (30 years old and working around 40-50 hours a week with other RL things to do besides playing video games). Also, they have been working on FFXIV: A REALM REBORN for what? 2 years? The game launched but we can all agree that it was not complete. They launched the game asap to save the Final Fantasy franchise.

That's exaclty what MMO are these days. Sure, someone could make an hardcore MMO and have 100k players but why have 100k players when you can have 1 million?




pretty sure FFXi had more than 100k players... and Im also 30 and work 40 hours a week (the bills dont pay themselves after all) yet I can still handle a hardcore MMO, because when all the important stuff is taken care of (i.e work and home) I can very well spend the rest of my fre etime gaming..

as far as doing Coil, CT and capping myth in one day.. Im sure it can be done.. if not hen definitely in 2. that leaves 5 other days with no reason to play (which in a way is a GOOD thing considering I have about 20+ other game sin my backog that i havent even started yet let alone finished... because after all well.. I do work. and sleep. so I dont have 24 hours a day to play.. however at the same time I feel if im gonna pay a bill for something monthly it should have a use EVER day... i.e that electricity we pay for is used daily right? so is water, so is the house we live in, so is the phone and internet, etc etc. if i have no good reason to use it everday Id rather just pay for it once and never have to pay for it again lol
oh and I didnt mention PvP because its not "necessary" to enhance your character outside of PvP or better your character in any way.. its more like a "minigame" "side game" to do for fun... now when they add more open world content then open PvP (whicvh will never happen) and you have to watch your back from other players while youre trying to complete other content THEN i can add PvP to the "significant" list

Edited, Dec 13th 2013 1:08pm by DuoMaxwellxx
#103 Dec 13 2013 at 1:50 PM Rating: Decent
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DuoMaxwellxx wrote:
QuickShadoww wrote:
When 2.1 hits, try to do Coil, CT, PvP, cap your myths in one day.

You have to realize that FFXIV was made for the CASUAL players like myself (30 years old and working around 40-50 hours a week with other RL things to do besides playing video games). Also, they have been working on FFXIV: A REALM REBORN for what? 2 years? The game launched but we can all agree that it was not complete. They launched the game asap to save the Final Fantasy franchise.

That's exaclty what MMO are these days. Sure, someone could make an hardcore MMO and have 100k players but why have 100k players when you can have 1 million?




pretty sure FFXi had more than 100k players... and Im also 30 and work 40 hours a week (the bills dont pay themselves after all) yet I can still handle a hardcore MMO, because when all the important stuff is taken care of (i.e work and home) I can very well spend the rest of my fre etime gaming..

as far as doing Coil, CT and capping myth in one day.. Im sure it can be done.. if not hen definitely in 2. that leaves 5 other days with no reason to play (which in a way is a GOOD thing considering I have about 20+ other game sin my backog that i havent even started yet let alone finished... because after all well.. I do work. and sleep. so I dont have 24 hours a day to play.. however at the same time I feel if im gonna pay a bill for something monthly it should have a use EVER day... i.e that electricity we pay for is used daily right? so is water, so is the house we live in, so is the phone and internet, etc etc. if i have no good reason to use it everday Id rather just pay for it once and never have to pay for it again lol
oh and I didnt mention PvP because its not "necessary" to enhance your character outside of PvP or better your character in any way.. its more like a "minigame" "side game" to do for fun... now when they add more open world content then open PvP (whicvh will never happen) and you have to watch your back from other players while youre trying to complete other content THEN i can add PvP to the "significant" list

Edited, Dec 13th 2013 1:08pm by DuoMaxwellxx


In 2006, between 200,000 and 300,000 active players logged in per day, and the game was the dominant MMORPG in Japan. In 2008 Square Enix noted that Final Fantasy XI had a strong user base of around 500,000 subscribers, and in April 2009, announced that the total number of active characters exceeded 2 million for the first time. Square Enix president Yoichi Wada announced in June 2012 that Final Fantasy XI had become the most profitable title in the Final Fantasy series.

http://www.playonline.com/pcd/topics/ff11us/0904/topics_all.html


Quote:

Vana'dielian Population Tops Two Million! (04/22/2009)

It is our distinct pleasure to announce that during the third week of April, the total number of active characters across all worlds in FINAL FANTASY XI has exceeded the two million mark for the first time!
Since the commencement of service on May 16th, 2002, Vana'diel has gone on to become a vibrant gathering place for adventurers hailing from all corners of the globe. Boasting four expansions and one add-on scenario with two more in the pipes, FINAL FANTASY XI continues to evolve into an ever richer realm of magic and adventure.

We would like to thank you, our fans, for your loyal patronage over the years, and look forward to your continued support for many more to come.


So at its peak it had more users than FFXIV has now..

Edited, Dec 13th 2013 2:54pm by Nashred

Edited, Dec 13th 2013 2:55pm by Nashred
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#104 Dec 13 2013 at 1:56 PM Rating: Excellent
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The 2 million mark was just after a Return to Vanadiel campaign, in which they were able to retrieve people's old accounts and reactivate them.

They're doing that right now, too.

Edited, Dec 13th 2013 2:58pm by Catwho
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#105 Dec 13 2013 at 6:24 PM Rating: Good
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Nashred wrote:
In 2006, between 200,000 and 300,000 active players logged in per day, and the game was the dominant MMORPG in Japan. In 2008 Square Enix noted that Final Fantasy XI had a strong user base of around 500,000 subscribers, and in April 2009, announced that the total number of active characters exceeded 2 million for the first time. Square Enix president Yoichi Wada announced in June 2012 that Final Fantasy XI had become the most profitable title in the Final Fantasy series.

http://www.playonline.com/pcd/topics/ff11us/0904/topics_all.html


No, just... no.

Characters != accounts. When you can have up to 16 characters on an account (and most people have at least 1 or 2 mule characters) that's a meaningless announcement. It was a fairly truthful, but majorly misleading, announcement to try to make it seem like a huge milestone. That announcement was during the release of the ACP/AMK/ASA tri-packs, Mog Bonanza had just returned, and they had re-opened the free trial (and count those). This was end WotG era when numbers of the subscribers were declining due to SE dragging out the expansion's storyline.

You know what they hadn't also done yet? The massive gardening ban of '09! Then there's the 'adjustment' to gardening for new people that only allowed them to harvest up to 1 item for 90 days, and that prevented more mules. Previous to the ban, gardening was fairly popular and it was a 'widespread' secret for RMT and blinker types to have an account (or more) full of 16 gardeners that would sell crops that generated more gil than it cost to plant with short gestation periods --- this is why the ban happened.

That number is absolutely meaningless.

Nashred wrote:
So at its peak it had more users than FFXIV has now..


It has not, nor will it ever, break past FFXIV's cap. FFXI never broke beyond 600K subscribers.

Edited, Dec 13th 2013 7:29pm by Viertel
#106 Dec 13 2013 at 11:07 PM Rating: Decent
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Seriha wrote:
FilthMcNasty wrote:
That said, I still can't figure out why they went away from XI. They are competing with themselves in an already saturated market. Does not compute.

From the artistic standpoint, I can actually look to it as the XI world being a bit suffocating in terms of story content. Personally, I kind of hate the whole, "Oh, well, see, there's this continent over here and..." that happened with ToAU and now Adoulin. Some after-the-fact attempts at mish-mashing go on to try and cover it up, but I guess there's also a point where we just gotta roll our eyes and think, "OH NO, VANA'DIEL IS DOOMED IF THE ADVENTURERS DON'T DO SOMETHING....AGAIN!" with the world itself never really seeming to reflect that danger.


That's the difference between persistent online worlds and single player. One goes on indefinitely and the other is supposed to resolve itself in 80-100 hours. If you get bored saving the same world repeatedly, you're not really built for MMOs because that's how it works. I don't fault you for not liking it, but I think most people look beyond it because there aren't many creative ways around it.

LebargeX wrote:
Saying FFXIV is 3 years old is like saying the brand new house you built after your 3 year old one burned to the ground is the same age because the two have the same address.


Analogy doesn't work well because structurally, XIV is the same. As a player, I'd be renting the 'house'. When we all went to see if it was worth moving to back in 2010, the doors creaked, the water heater leaked, the shower didn't have good pressure.. so on. Now when it's back on the market in 2013 they either fixed what was broken or just borrowed the idea for improvements from the other 'homes' in the neighborhood(genre).

People want to act like the NPCs in the game who all seem to have forgotten. I guess if I were hardcore RP I'd probably try and play the part too, but I have all the memories of the catastrophe still intact Smiley: frown

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#107 Dec 13 2013 at 11:35 PM Rating: Default
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DuoMaxwellxx wrote:
QuickShadoww wrote:
When 2.1 hits, try to do Coil, CT, PvP, cap your myths in one day.

You have to realize that FFXIV was made for the CASUAL players like myself (30 years old and working around 40-50 hours a week with other RL things to do besides playing video games). Also, they have been working on FFXIV: A REALM REBORN for what? 2 years? The game launched but we can all agree that it was not complete. They launched the game asap to save the Final Fantasy franchise.

That's exaclty what MMO are these days. Sure, someone could make an hardcore MMO and have 100k players but why have 100k players when you can have 1 million?




pretty sure FFXi had more than 100k players... and Im also 30 and work 40 hours a week (the bills dont pay themselves after all) yet I can still handle a hardcore MMO, because when all the important stuff is taken care of (i.e work and home) I can very well spend the rest of my fre etime gaming..

as far as doing Coil, CT and capping myth in one day.. Im sure it can be done.. if not hen definitely in 2. that leaves 5 other days with no reason to play (which in a way is a GOOD thing considering I have about 20+ other game sin my backog that i havent even started yet let alone finished... because after all well.. I do work. and sleep. so I dont have 24 hours a day to play.. however at the same time I feel if im gonna pay a bill for something monthly it should have a use EVER day... i.e that electricity we pay for is used daily right? so is water, so is the house we live in, so is the phone and internet, etc etc. if i have no good reason to use it everday Id rather just pay for it once and never have to pay for it again lol
oh and I didnt mention PvP because its not "necessary" to enhance your character outside of PvP or better your character in any way.. its more like a "minigame" "side game" to do for fun... now when they add more open world content then open PvP (whicvh will never happen) and you have to watch your back from other players while youre trying to complete other content THEN i can add PvP to the "significant" list

Edited, Dec 13th 2013 1:08pm by DuoMaxwellxx


Maybe Coil, CT, and capping your tomes could be done in one day but the percentage of the player base willing and/or able to do so is so small I don't think that is any type of reflection of the average player's weekly experience. I mean, you could buy a game that's said to have 40 hours of gameplay and sit down and beat it in two days if you wanted to, but complaining about how few days it took you to do so would seem pretty silly.

I have a lot of good memories of FFXI too, but that doesn't change the fact that 90%+ of the playing time was work. That was fine back then when I was in college and wasn't working full time, but now that I've got a real job where I work long hours when I log in to play a game I want to have fun and that's the big advantage XIV has over XI. I can log on any night of the week and find something to do that will entertain me. With XI, in order to have fun back when I played you had to a) have farmed your **** off for hours to have all the best gear that others insisted you have, b) hope you actually get a party invite and can fill in the rest of the slots so you have any chance of XPing, c) hope that your party is competent enough that your XP goes up and not down, d) hope that the 15-20 minute trek to camp isn't taking you to some place that's already full, etc. Nothing like investing 2 hours into joining a party and starting to XP only to break even on XP in the end. That's wasn't fun, that was a waste of time.

As for CoP being this brilliant expansion... no. Maybe the story was great, I don't know. I wasn't hardcore enough to see 75% of the content I bought and paid for so what do I know. It always seemed pretty pointless to me to give us the new area to explore that would never be used for anything because most players couldn't get there. You hear the horror stories of what people had to go through to beat the expansion... you can call it hardcore, I'm just going to call it bad game design.

Like you, though, I do still get nostalgic from time to time. I don't sit around wishing they'd make FFXIV more like XI, though, because there's no need to. If I *really* wanted to take a walk down memory lane and relive some of those experiences, I still can - FFXI is still out there.
#108 Dec 14 2013 at 2:48 AM Rating: Default
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"you can call it hardcore, I'm just going to call it bad game design. "


Sooo anything too hard for you = bad game design? No bad game design is something that NO ONE can beat... the fact that other ppl beat CoP just fine would tel me that its not the game design thats flawed its ME who needs to step MY game up lol.


or if stepping your game up is too hard theres always the "wait 3 years until they nerf it to oblivion" before beating it (i.e ANYONE could beat cop now just fine)
#109 Dec 15 2013 at 11:52 AM Rating: Decent
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kainsilv wrote:
I find myself sitting on the fence between all of these comments and the OP. My preface will be that I am a Legacy player enjoying XIV much as I did XI during my years of participation. I found the storyline in both games enjoyable, at least, to the extent I was able to complete it.

I don't know about rehashing content when this is only the first patch. I do agree, completing content in XI felt more rewarding than it does in XIV. And while XI was a time consuming party grind, I enjoyed the parties, pace and execution of battles. The increased pace of battle in XIV is more inline with the overall MMO genre and let's not forget it makes more sense that you would typically battle several monsters all at once instead of taking 5 minutes to down one before engaging another. Likewise, EXP gain in XIV is paced better for casual players like me who with age and changing circumstance no longer have hours to waste looking for a party.

However, unusual though this may sound, I dislike grinding dungeons repeatedly to farm tomes. One might ask, how is that any different then camping and farming the same monster repeatedly? To the which, I have no good response other than odd personal preference. I feel like I hardly know Eorzea at all, despite having completed the main scenario and obtaining AF2 and relic +1 for multiple jobs. I have been grinding Wanderer's Palace, AK and Castrum Merandium each week so maybe that is why I am feeling apathetic. I no longer find enjoyment in it. Contrast this with the 'old school' party grind experienced in XI, I enjoyed this for nearly a decade. I'm afraid that to me the comparison speaks volumes about my preferences and the longevity of the game for me.

It felt more rewarding because it took more time and that reason only. ARR is par difficulty wise with XI, harder at endgame in my opinion. I can't be certain about why you prefer party grind over dungeon spam. But I can guess and my guess is you don't have to move around as much in party grinds. This allows you to multi-task or talk alot more in between pulls. For the record, I miss leveling parties. Not because I like killing the same mob all day, or faster XP. I just like socializing. I don't care if it's grinding or quest chaining. ARR doesn't offer me both avenues in viable form. I can do that stuff on my terms but suffer an xp hit for it.

As for not knowing the world as much as Vanadiel, that is an easy one. Fast Travel.
ARR: If you lived in Texas and only had to walk to New York once by foot, then could instantly teleport between the two after that. Over time you would forget alot of the things you experienced during one walk.

XI: Versus having to walk or ride a mount most of the way every time you visited. You would remember little nuances because you see all of it everyday.

Which you prefer is up to each individual and I am not saying one is better. But looking at that analogy. The game is not like real life and travel doesn't scale the same way in distance in time. Would you travel to New York by foot every time if time wasn't an issue?
The option is still there for everyone who plays ARR I think. Do you see many people choosing the long way most of the time?

The contrast is the more you indulge and have no limits placed on how often you can do something. The less of a high you get over time. If there was time gates prevalent in ARR as there was in XI, you would only get little hits, here and there.

I love Cherry Cream cheese cake. I only eat it occasionally and indulge in every single bite. Even though there is no limit besides money on how often I can eat it. If I ate it everyday in big quantities. I would start to lose the love for it, gain weight, and various other things.

XI made you it's *****. And told you when you could do this or that.
Up until the recent week lockouts, ARR let's you do what you want.

Forced moderation and self moderation. Which is better? That all depends on the player.
#110 Dec 15 2013 at 12:13 PM Rating: Good
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DuoMaxwellxx wrote:
now THIS sounds like an MMO:

" Elder Scrolls Online director Matt Firor has explained why upcoming MMOG has public dungeons.

In an interview with Edge Firor expressed an enthusiasm for public dungeons that he's found disappointingly absent from the current MMO climate.

"Public dungeons were my favourite thing about EverQuest," said Firor, before lamenting, "I can't think of an MMOG since then that's had them."

"When you think back to the fun MMOG moments in the first generation, it's standing there, terrified, in an enclosed space, waiting for someone to come along and save you. We can't do that punitive gameplay that they did in those days, but we can put people together in places where they want to work with others."

Sounds like Guild Wars 2 to me.

DuoMaxwellxx wrote:
One of The Elder Scrolls Online's central ambitions is to encourage players to socialise in the game world rather than just through the interfaces. Firor described these public dungeons as "basically a space that's designed for people who are not grouped together to go into to fight".

He added: "It's a great place for people to connect with other players and they're very important to us, although we still have instanced private dungeons and end-game raid dungeons for groups of up to six players too.


"Each one of these public dungeons is soloable, however, and there are a lot of them, but they're also dangerous. Lots of creatures, very close together. Basically, if you solo it, you'll need to find a place to heal, and then you might find another player there who's exactly like you, and needs help, and then you can fall in together. You'll have met someone that, hopefully, you'll want to stick around with later on."

Guild Wars 2 is one big public dungeon. Only problem with both of these games is there is not a hard trinity. This isn't a problem to me but it is too many old school mmo players. What's the point of grouping if everyone can do most of the roles you do?
You can't solo dungeons here, because you can't even enter the dungeon ones solo, if you could solo them.

Many of the themes I am reading in this thread are over things that the original XIV had.
-No hard trinity
-Very loose class restrictions(think people who play like jobs, but other mmo players say it is too restrictive)
-Seamless zones(now some say zones too small)
-Meaningful crafting(People say the newer is better, but what I am talking about is it being comparable to dungeon drops)
--Could group for guildleves and xp parties
-Very limited aeythyrite porting(more foot travel)
-No exclamation points over quest npcs heads
-Dangerous monsters everywhere with aggro specific tendecies

Guys and girls this game may not be new to you if you been here since day one of the original. But it's two months old if you just started. Yeah Tanaka is gone but many of the team who built XI work on ARR as well. So I expect to see some of the XI spirit carry over to here. It's going to take time.

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