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Yoshi P comments on Housing PricesFollow

#1 Dec 16 2013 at 7:15 AM Rating: Excellent
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Shamelessly ripped from this post in the OF:

http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxiv/threads/128464-New-Live-Letter-YoshiP-Comments-on-Housing-Prices

Galactimus wrote:
Thanks to Reinhart, his Twitchfeed, his translation, and for staying up so late:

"YoshiP is saying it was set this way so players don’t buy out all the lands right away and end up in situation where none is available. RMT estimated gil has been removed from their amount, they checked how much gil the FC’s have and got the estimates."

"With battle alone you should be able to earn 15000-18000, little bit over 20000 gil with role bonus every day. If you farm 7 days that’s good amount X number of members. It’s set so players can buy in 3 month time."

"He says again he will look at situation and make adjustments. The information posted on the patch notes it the highest amount and most likely not much people will buy, he wants people to use this as example to have players talk over how to gain the gil to purchase."

After such a horrible explanation the Japanese feed exploded. It was quite the waste of time (especially listening to 1 hour of them reading PvP abilities word for word.) (^_^)


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#2 Dec 16 2013 at 7:21 AM Rating: Good
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I hate to say it but all the high price is going to do is encourage gil buying. Like it or not people are going to look for the path of least resistance. Some LS members said last night they were already getting spam /tells advertising money for housing so the gil sellers are already looking to cash in.
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#3 Dec 16 2013 at 7:31 AM Rating: Good
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SolomonGrundy wrote:
Shamelessly ripped from this post in the OF:

http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxiv/threads/128464-New-Live-Letter-YoshiP-Comments-on-Housing-Prices

Galactimus wrote:
Thanks to Reinhart, his Twitchfeed, his translation, and for staying up so late:

"YoshiP is saying it was set this way so players don’t buy out all the lands right away and end up in situation where none is available. RMT estimated gil has been removed from their amount, they checked how much gil the FC’s have and got the estimates."

"With battle alone you should be able to earn 15000-18000, little bit over 20000 gil with role bonus every day. If you farm 7 days that’s good amount X number of members. It’s set so players can buy in 3 month time."

"He says again he will look at situation and make adjustments. The information posted on the patch notes it the highest amount and most likely not much people will buy, he wants people to use this as example to have players talk over how to gain the gil to purchase."

After such a horrible explanation the Japanese feed exploded. It was quite the waste of time (especially listening to 1 hour of them reading PvP abilities word for word.) (^_^)


Magic 8 ball says: Outlook is still bleak.


nevermind, i saw too many zeros

Edited, Dec 16th 2013 5:32am by LebargeX
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#4 Dec 16 2013 at 7:31 AM Rating: Good
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Sure, you could technically make 20k a day, 120k a week, 480k a month and 1,5 mil in three months per member. Because FFXIV is apparently not a game to the developers, we should think of it as a job.

Forgetting that A) no one is (or atleast was) currently spending any gil because they were all saving up for housing, making the prices on everything crash immensely. Same supply, no demand.

And more realistically, B) Who in their right mind would spend such immense amounts of gil on a house? If i had that kind of money, i'd spend it leveling crafting jobs or gearing up the jobs i already have.

No one is going to have or make such amounts of gil just for a house. Just another thing to **** people off.

They could have been honest and told us they havent finished the housing yet, didnt prepare enough servers for the living areas and that we had to wait atleast another 3 months for them to get ready... But no. That would be an inconvenience and SE cant have that.

Edited, Dec 16th 2013 2:38pm by KojiroSoma
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#5 Dec 16 2013 at 7:32 AM Rating: Good
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Quote:
I hate to say it but all the high price is going to do is encourage gil buying. Like it or not people are going to look for the path of least resistance. Some LS members said last night they were already getting spam /tells advertising money for housing so the gil sellers are already looking to cash in.


Careful, I got sent to default for saying the same thing in another thread.

I agree though, and the RMT spam on Excalibur last night was crazy, was only on for 2 hours and was approached 5 times.

Edited, Dec 16th 2013 8:32am by SolomonGrundy
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#6 Dec 16 2013 at 7:39 AM Rating: Good
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Quote:
RMT estimated gil has been removed from their amount, they checked how much gil the FC’s have and got the estimates.


I don't understand what this means. Are they factoring in how much gil people will buy before making their calculations or after?

Joking aside, I am curious why they decided to make a limited amount of plots available. Is it supposed to be some sort of status symbol if your FC owns land? I don't see the point to that.
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#7 Dec 16 2013 at 7:39 AM Rating: Decent
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reptiletim wrote:
I hate to say it but all the high price is going to do is encourage gil buying. Like it or not people are going to look for the path of least resistance. Some LS members said last night they were already getting spam /tells advertising money for housing so the gil sellers are already looking to cash in.


And SE will ban the buyers.

Gil isn't any more valuable in this game than it was in XI. ****, before 2.1 I'd go as far as to say gil wasn't nearly as valuable as it was in XI.

More importantly, money in this game is not used to enhance your character (XI). It is used to buy cosmetic property for FC's (later, players) to compete as to who is the top money dog with some (non-combat proficiency related) gameplay perks down the line.

The way money currency works in this game is FFXI-Lite at best. There is less incentive to buy gil, and SE took care of RMT in XI, too, either way.

Gil having value encourages RMT activity. Gil having no value discourages RMT activity. There is no denying this. Either gil is meaningless or SE has to fight RMT. The complainers are certainly using the RMT card effectively, but gil's value is going up at the same time, and this is conveniently ignored in the arguments.
#8 Dec 16 2013 at 7:40 AM Rating: Decent
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Unless I make way more gil than most people (which I doubt), 120k per week isn't that much really. Those who are particularly good at making gil will carry their FCs pretty quickly with 500k, 1m or higher donations per week.
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#9 Dec 16 2013 at 7:41 AM Rating: Good
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With battle alone you should be able to earn 15000-18000, little bit over 20000 gil with role bonus every day. If you farm 7 days that’s good amount X number of members. It’s set so players can buy in 3 month time."


And yet, the prices per server are not weighted based on gil you can get per day, but gil that exists.

If that's the case, give legacy servers more gil? I mean, new players did also start on legacy servers (I convinced alot of my friends, they started with no gil.) I came from 1.0 with 2 mil which became 200k.

And honestly, the people who want housing the most are the small FC's. No way in **** I'm handing over money to a large FC where I'm just a number to them.


Quote:
Unless I make way more gil than most people (which I doubt), 120k per week isn't that much really. Those who are particularly good at making gil will carry their FCs pretty quickly with 500k, 1m or higher donations per week.


What's your secret? Not asking for the one thing you sell most, but do you gather or craft?


Edited, Dec 16th 2013 8:43am by Louiscool
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#10 Dec 16 2013 at 7:45 AM Rating: Decent
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Louiscool wrote:
Quote:
With battle alone you should be able to earn 15000-18000, little bit over 20000 gil with role bonus every day. If you farm 7 days that’s good amount X number of members. It’s set so players can buy in 3 month time."


And yet, the prices per server are not weighted based on gil you can get per day, but gil that exists.

If that's the case, give legacy servers more gil? I mean, new players did also start on legacy servers (I convinced alot of my friends, they started with no gil.) I came from 1.0 with 2 mil which became 200k.

And honestly, the people who want housing the most are the small FC's. No way in **** I'm handing over money to a large FC where I'm just a number to them.


Do you want to keep the Legacy servers locked from character transfer forever? That's what your suggestion will accomplish...

Quote:
What's your secret? Not asking for the one thing you sell most, but do you gather or craft?


People paid massive amounts for gear up to few weeks ago. I could make 10k profit per armor piece on the lvl30-40 range. They just don't care how much money they have, so it's easy to profit off of them.



Edited, Dec 16th 2013 4:48pm by Hyanmen
#11 Dec 16 2013 at 8:02 AM Rating: Excellent
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Quote:
And honestly, the people who want housing the most are the small FC's


I think this is the point that Yoshi P and the others lost. The big hardcore endgame FCs with a hundred players are less interested in playing The Sims XIV and more interested in beating Crystal Tower.

Our casual little FC has about a dozen people in it, half of whom don't have any classes at 50. We can't even buy a hut at this rate.

Yoshi P is correct that it's pretty easy to make 20K gil a day. The problem is, that money tends to get spent as soon as its earned - either for crafting, for high end materia, or for gear.

It's clear they intend housing to be a major gil sink, but it rankles that they're 'releasing' content they realistically don't want anyone to play with for three months.
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#12 Dec 16 2013 at 8:15 AM Rating: Good
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At these prices, here are my predictions:

Crafting Workshop upgrade: 100 million.
Airship Docking upgrade: 100 million
Naval Docking upgrade: 100 million
Chocobo Stables upgrade: 75 million.
Gardening Plot upgrade: 25 million.
Private Room: 5 million

I really hope they've got a mutiny on their hands. It would be great to see the player base unite in protest. Unfortunately that's not going to happen. Johnny RMT is going to ruin this and/or a handful of FC's will be able to participate. Maybe the furnishing market will be worthwhile.

Unrelated to housing, I'm also ****** about the giant nerf to Holy. Would have been nice if they limited that to dungeons.

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#13 Dec 16 2013 at 8:25 AM Rating: Excellent
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Catwho wrote:
I think this is the point that Yoshi P and the others lost. The big hardcore endgame FCs with a hundred players are less interested in playing The Sims XIV and more interested in beating Crystal Tower.


I don't know...we're having a pretty heated discussion in our FC regarding which size house to purchase. There's this rumor (?) of furniture giving pretty significant buffs similar to 11 in which case everyone would be interested in it.

Right now, we can't justify the cost of the large house since it'd take 3 months of saving to buy. If these buffs are good enough to justify having a house, then everyone will want one.

I did some math on our forum but I figure I'll post it here. This is for the group Midgard (L=125 mil, M=37.5 mil, S=10 mil) is in which has the highest cost outside of the legacy servers.

Hitome wrote:
1) Number of people willing to set aside money each week for a house, x
2) Amount of time that passes before you wish to purchase a house, t
3) Amount of money each individual needs to set aside each week for housing, y

I am arbitrarily going to pick two of the values to demonstrate the third value.

x = 25 people willing to contribute
t = 1 month = approximately 30 days = 720 hours = 120 price reductions of .14% = reduction of 16.8% or .168
y = ? amount of money that must be saved by each individual per week

Small plot (first class) after a month

8.32 mil

This means each person needs to contribute 332.8k after the first month passes which is equivalent of y = 83.2k per week.

Medium plot (first class) after a month

31.2 mil

This means each person needs to contribute 1.248 mil after the first month passes which is equivalent of y = 312k per week.

Large plot (first class) after a month

104 mil

This means each person needs to contribute 4.16 mil after the first month passes which is equivalent of y = 1.04 mil per week.


Remember, these are only values I chose arbitrarily. If x is fewer people than expected, all of these values rise. If t is 0 (meaning you purchase immediately) instead of one month, these values all rise.

For the large house to be viable given the two values I chose, more than 2 months would have to pass. So either choose to push yourselves to make more than 500-700k per week, have more than 25 people saving money, wait longer than 2 months, or a combination of two/three of those.


So if you have a smallish-sized FC (maybe 25 members like I mentioned) who play casually, I think it's possible to put aside 83.2k a week (max) for a month till you can purchase a house. From what I've seen, the amount of money a casual farmer/crafter can make in a week is around 100k~300k if you do not push yourself so the goal of the small house is within reach. Even after 2 months, the goal of the medium house is within reach by just saving a little each week and having maybe 25 interested members.

Catwho wrote:
Yoshi P is correct that it's pretty easy to make 20K gil a day. The problem is, that money tends to get spent as soon as its earned - either for crafting, for high end materia, or for gear.


This, on the other hand, is absolutely correct. Sure, it's easy to make that much a week...but he doesn't realize that there are other gil sinks in this game that we currently have, subtracting a significant value from what we're able to save. Repair costs, teleport costs, food for raiding, materia melding costs, leveling crafting, crafting new gear, etc.

It would be nice of him to come to terms with the fact that there is so much negative feedback over the initial prices and fix it. I said, a few days ago, that patch 2.1 will really be the deciding factor when it comes to 14 for many people. If he doesn't level with his community, he's going to find that many people won't put up with it and leave. I hope he looks to his predecessors and learns from their mistakes.

Edited, Dec 16th 2013 9:54am by HitomeOfBismarck
#14 Dec 16 2013 at 8:29 AM Rating: Decent
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Hyanmen wrote:
Louiscool wrote:
Quote:
With battle alone you should be able to earn 15000-18000, little bit over 20000 gil with role bonus every day. If you farm 7 days that’s good amount X number of members. It’s set so players can buy in 3 month time."


And yet, the prices per server are not weighted based on gil you can get per day, but gil that exists.

If that's the case, give legacy servers more gil? I mean, new players did also start on legacy servers (I convinced alot of my friends, they started with no gil.) I came from 1.0 with 2 mil which became 200k.

And honestly, the people who want housing the most are the small FC's. No way in **** I'm handing over money to a large FC where I'm just a number to them.


Do you want to keep the Legacy servers locked from character transfer forever? That's what your suggestion will accomplish...


It was more of a rhetorical suggestion, not actual. What I'm saying is it doesn't make sense to justify the prices with the gil fountains that exist if you're weighting the prices based on current circulation. But, it's obviously an attempt to deflate the economy so they can unlock the servers and will lower the prices later.

Quote:
Quote:
What's your secret? Not asking for the one thing you sell most, but do you gather or craft?


People paid massive amounts for gear up to few weeks ago. I could make 10k profit per armor piece on the lvl30-40 range. They just don't care how much money they have, so it's easy to profit off of them.


Ah, yeah I picked the wrong craft.. nothing to make money with Blacksmithing now that relic base weapons have plummeted.

Edited, Dec 16th 2013 9:30am by Louiscool
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#16 Dec 16 2013 at 8:36 AM Rating: Excellent
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HitomeOfBismarck wrote:
Catwho wrote:
I think this is the point that Yoshi P and the others lost. The big hardcore endgame FCs with a hundred players are less interested in playing The Sims XIV and more interested in beating Crystal Tower.


I don't know...we're having a pretty heated discussion in our FC regarding which size house to purchase. There's this rumor (?) of furniture giving pretty significant buffs similar to 11 in which case everyone would be interested in it.

Right now, we can't justify the cost of the large house since it'd take 3 months of saving to buy. If these buffs are good enough to justify having a house, then everyone will want one.

I did some math on our forum but I figure I'll post it here. This is for the group Midgard (L=125 mil, M=37.5 mil, S=10 mil) is in which has the highest cost outside of the legacy servers.

Hitome wrote:
1) Number of people willing to set aside money each week for a house, x
2) Amount of time that passes before you wish to purchase a house, t
3) Amount of money each individual needs to set aside each week for housing, y

I am arbitrarily going to pick two of the values to demonstrate the third value.

x = 25 people willing to contribute
t = 1 month = approximately 30 days = 720 hours = 120 price reductions of .14% = reduction of 16.8% or .168
y = ? amount of money that must be saved by each individual per week

Small plot (first class) after a month

8.32 mil

This means each person needs to contribute 332.8k after the first month passes which is equivalent of y = 83.2k per week.

Medium plot (first class) after a month

31.2 mil

This means each person needs to contribute 1.248 mil after the first month passes which is equivalent of y = 312k per week.

Large plot (first class) after a month

104 mil

This means each person needs to contribute 4.16 mil after the first month passes which is equivalent of y = 1.04 mil per week.


Remember, these are only values I chose arbitrarily. If x is fewer people than expected, all of these values rise. If t is 0 (meaning you purchase immediately) instead of one month, these values all rise.

I generally do not farm for gil and, from what I gather in this thread, most people do not either. I would say a reasonable amount of money for each person to generate a week based on market trends is in the range of 500k-700k. I just don't see people being able to generate more unless you really push yourselves.

For the large house to be viable given the two values I chose, more than 2 months would have to pass. So either choose to push yourselves to make more than 500-700k per week, have more than 25 people saving money, wait longer than 2 months, or a combination of two/three of those.


So if you have a smallish-sized FC (maybe 25 members like I mentioned) who play casually, I think it's possible to put aside 83.2k a week (max) for a month till you can purchase a house. From what I've seen, the amount of money a casual farmer/crafter can make in a week is around 100k~300k if you do not push yourself so the goal of the small house is within reach. Even after 2 months, the goal of the medium house is within reach by just saving a little each week and having maybe 25 interested members.

Catwho wrote:
Yoshi P is correct that it's pretty easy to make 20K gil a day. The problem is, that money tends to get spent as soon as its earned - either for crafting, for high end materia, or for gear.


This, on the other hand, is absolutely correct. Sure, it's easy to make that much a week...but he doesn't realize that there are other gil sinks in this game that we currently have, subjecting a significant value from what we're able to save. Repair costs, food for raiding, materia melding costs, leveling crafting, crafting new gear, etc.

It would be nice of him to come to terms with the fact that there is so much negative feedback over the initial prices and fix it. I said, a few days ago, that patch 2.1 will really be the deciding factor when it comes to 14 for many people. If he doesn't level with his community, he's going to find that many people won't put up with it and leave. I hope he looks to his predecessors and learns from their mistakes.


If everyone's clinching up to save money for housing, who are you going to make the money off of? Demand for items will plummet. Prices for stuff will plummet.
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#17 Dec 16 2013 at 8:37 AM Rating: Excellent
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HonkeyKong29 wrote:
i dont understand how every player doesn't have at least 1 million gil. if you spent any time crafting/running wp that should be no problem. my FC is 4 friends from rl and we're at about 5.5 mil. our goal is to get to about 6 mil and then wait for a small plot price to come down. No need to panic here .... everyone will get their land in the long run. Just gotta work for it I guess.


Maybe not everyone wants to spend every single gil they've earned in the past 3.5 months on a furniture warehouse :)
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#18 Dec 16 2013 at 8:48 AM Rating: Decent
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LebargeX wrote:
HonkeyKong29 wrote:
i dont understand how every player doesn't have at least 1 million gil. if you spent any time crafting/running wp that should be no problem. my FC is 4 friends from rl and we're at about 5.5 mil. our goal is to get to about 6 mil and then wait for a small plot price to come down. No need to panic here .... everyone will get their land in the long run. Just gotta work for it I guess.


Maybe not everyone wants to spend every single gil they've earned in the past 3.5 months on a furniture warehouse :)


Also, as a legacy player I started with 600k and now I only have about 700k. I also fully leveled Monk, all DoH (had all at 15 except Goldsmith at 32) and the DoL. I've easily spent 10s, perhaps 100s of thousands of gil on teleports, nevermind gear I couldn't craft and repairs. A lot of my friends played legacy longer that I did and started 2.0 with more gil and have less than I currently have, mainly due to the endgame repair costs before they were adjusted.

We all don't have a million gil because, people are lazy and don't craft and teleport rather than airship/chocobo (I used the airship once in this game), people aren't economics majors and the current Market Wards are like a pit in the stock exchange but with bonus sharp weapons, and people don't want to grind out gathering, instead they want to play content, or are too scared not to spam dungeons in case they fall behind in gear.
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#19 Dec 16 2013 at 8:53 AM Rating: Excellent
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LebargeX wrote:
If everyone's clinching up to save money for housing, who are you going to make the money off of? Demand for items will plummet. Prices for stuff will plummet.


An excellent point! I would make for a poor economist.

Do you think they considered this point when deciding prices?
#20 Dec 16 2013 at 9:02 AM Rating: Good
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SolomonGrundy wrote:
LebargeX wrote:
HonkeyKong29 wrote:
i dont understand how every player doesn't have at least 1 million gil. if you spent any time crafting/running wp that should be no problem. my FC is 4 friends from rl and we're at about 5.5 mil. our goal is to get to about 6 mil and then wait for a small plot price to come down. No need to panic here .... everyone will get their land in the long run. Just gotta work for it I guess.


Maybe not everyone wants to spend every single gil they've earned in the past 3.5 months on a furniture warehouse :)


Also, as a legacy player I started with 600k and now I only have about 700k. I also fully leveled Monk, all DoH (had all at 15 except Goldsmith at 32) and the DoL. I've easily spent 10s, perhaps 100s of thousands of gil on teleports, nevermind gear I couldn't craft and repairs. A lot of my friends played legacy longer that I did and started 2.0 with more gil and have less than I currently have, mainly due to the endgame repair costs before they were adjusted.

We all don't have a million gil because, people are lazy and don't craft and teleport rather than airship/chocobo (I used the airship once in this game), people aren't economics majors and the current Market Wards are like a pit in the stock exchange but with bonus sharp weapons, and people don't want to grind out gathering, instead they want to play content, or are too scared not to spam dungeons in case they fall behind in gear.


I mean.. in all honesty there was no motivation to earn gil before. If you had a few 50's you weren't spending it on gear, just repairs and maybe food, plus relic. I crafted alot early to get to 1 mil, just top say "I'm a gillionaire!" and then I stopped trying because all the best gear came from tomes and drops.

Maybe this will be the motivator to try again, but I just see this as a stall to the market, as everyone will be saving not spending. People already weren't spending..
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#21 Dec 16 2013 at 9:24 AM Rating: Excellent
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Prices were already plummeting over the past few weeks. I used to sell earth/lightning crystals for 250 a pop, at the end of November. Now they sell for 100 or less only a couple weeks later. Others are even lower. Even HQ gear prices have dropped. Materia prices, especially high end ones, have completely crashed. From 500k a month ago to 100k or less now for some of the t4s. And now that food doesn't wear on death, those prices are going to plummet. Factor in that people are going to be hoarding now for housing and I can't really imagine the market is going to respond well. I wonder how much gil the RMT are going to sell now... just when they were starting to slow down too, at least on our server. I sincerely hope I'm wrong and this doesn't negatively effect the economy, but I'm certainly concerned.
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#22 Dec 16 2013 at 9:32 AM Rating: Excellent
Louiscool wrote:
SolomonGrundy wrote:
LebargeX wrote:
HonkeyKong29 wrote:
i dont understand how every player doesn't have at least 1 million gil. if you spent any time crafting/running wp that should be no problem. my FC is 4 friends from rl and we're at about 5.5 mil. our goal is to get to about 6 mil and then wait for a small plot price to come down. No need to panic here .... everyone will get their land in the long run. Just gotta work for it I guess.


Maybe not everyone wants to spend every single gil they've earned in the past 3.5 months on a furniture warehouse :)


Also, as a legacy player I started with 600k and now I only have about 700k. I also fully leveled Monk, all DoH (had all at 15 except Goldsmith at 32) and the DoL. I've easily spent 10s, perhaps 100s of thousands of gil on teleports, nevermind gear I couldn't craft and repairs. A lot of my friends played legacy longer that I did and started 2.0 with more gil and have less than I currently have, mainly due to the endgame repair costs before they were adjusted.

We all don't have a million gil because, people are lazy and don't craft and teleport rather than airship/chocobo (I used the airship once in this game), people aren't economics majors and the current Market Wards are like a pit in the stock exchange but with bonus sharp weapons, and people don't want to grind out gathering, instead they want to play content, or are too scared not to spam dungeons in case they fall behind in gear.


I mean.. in all honesty there was no motivation to earn gil before. If you had a few 50's you weren't spending it on gear, just repairs and maybe food, plus relic. I crafted alot early to get to 1 mil, just top say "I'm a gillionaire!" and then I stopped trying because all the best gear came from tomes and drops.

Maybe this will be the motivator to try again, but I just see this as a stall to the market, as everyone will be saving not spending. People already weren't spending..


Also if FCs aren't buying houses then Furniture, one of the things they had planned to make crafters "relevant" becomes pointless...not that it would have worked any way as a decent sized FC will have their own in house crafters.
#24 Dec 16 2013 at 9:56 AM Rating: Good
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Either people will work for it and save the gil (Really we can't gauge the additional gil going into the economy post patch until we're doing it. I can tell you right now I'm not making 20k a day, nor spending anywhere near that amount. Beastmen Quests and Roulette WILL be changing that fairly significantly.)

Or they can wait for the prices to be reduced.

Or they can wait for the SE to adjust the overall prices.

Either way, the worst thing you have to do is wait.

---

Seriously what is the matter with people an patience these days? They can't wait on Weekly Coil, they can't wait on CT/EX Primal loot lockouts. There's plenty to be added into the game now with the routlette, treasure hunts, Beastmen quests, and new story.

But to make things worse here, and what's getting under my skin, is that I bet you any money that people are going to be complaining about the 'grind' of Beastmen Dailies and Roulette within a month.


People will complain - period. People will complain that they can't grind something, people will complain that they can grind something. People will complain that it's too easy to get gear. People can complain that they can't get gear more quickly due to lockouts.

The reason why SE is going the route it is, is because the player-base cannot get its act together. We have polarizing opinions on everything and nobody is going to be entirely happy until people can start compromising and agreeing with each other.

Pity we value showmanship and status symbols more than we do having fun with one another.

Sorry about the rant guys. I've been staring at the Official Boards a bit too much.

Edited, Dec 16th 2013 11:46am by Hyrist
#25 Dec 16 2013 at 10:06 AM Rating: Good
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Hyrist wrote:
Either way, the worst thing you have to do is wait. Seriously what is the matter with people an patience these days? They can't wait on Weekly Coil, they can't wait on CT/EX Primal loot lockouts. There's plenty to be added into the game now with the routlette, treasure hunts, Beastmen quests, and new story.


I think the reason people are upset is because they feel deceived. SE made it out like housing would be expensive, but still attainable by the average player. They made it out like your average FC should be able to buy housing, and then they come out with these prices. We had well over a million gil saved for housing, thinking we'd probably be close to affording a large FC house. We aren't even 1/4 of the way to the smallest house. Even after 3 months, the gil we have now isn't even half of what we need for the smallest possible house. We have a large, social FC, so we want a large house. Without huge amount of gil and time, we'll never afford it. That's incredibly frustrating. It feels like we were just cheated out of housing content for the next X amount of months. I mean, why even release it?

Hyrist wrote:
The reason why SE is going the route it is, is because the player-base cannot get its act together. We have polarizing opinions on everything and nobody is going to be entirely happy until people can start compromising and agreeing with each other.

Pity we value showmanship and status symbols more than we do having fun with one another.


Showmanship and status? Um, I want a house so that our FC can have a place to hold meetings, for members to craft, where we can gather for fun events, and where we can decorate it out how we want to showcase our accomplishments as a group. As it stands currently, that goal is completely out of reach for us for the foreseeable future. Please don't make generalizations about what people want and why.

Of course there's going to be polarizing opinions. There are opinions like that on everything in the world that contrast greatly. But I'd go so far as to say the incredibly vast majority of players... including JP and EU, think the prices are bogus.

Edited, Dec 16th 2013 12:13pm by BartelX
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#26 Dec 16 2013 at 10:12 AM Rating: Good
Like it was said in another thread, I don't think SE has the server capacity for it right now, so this is what they did. You make reasonable prices, everyone jumps on it and overload.
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#27 Dec 16 2013 at 10:26 AM Rating: Excellent
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I sit at around 10k. Then I make some money, say 50k, then I go gear up some off-class. Back to 10k.

I just don't enjoy crafting or gathering all that much. There I said it. I did at one point but then I got bored with it. That is the route to making Gil though, as well as understanding the market and spending time at the AH board. Nah, I'll just keep doing what I enjoy instead.

So my FC wants to get a house and they will ask, "Gnu you have anything to contribute?" and I'm going to be like, "Not really, sorry. ><" This is the first time my personal play style is going to be a detriment to my FC. I guess we need a new level of promotions in our FC, "House Owners" or something, which I won't be part of.

Really though, the profits for RMT just shot through the roof. Anyone watch prices on Gil? I don't, but I can guess they just skyrocketed. Yoshi has just made Gil selling/buying a critical part of being a high-end player in FFXIV.

FC housing should have been bought with FC participation/rank credits. And that's all there is to it.


#28 Dec 16 2013 at 10:30 AM Rating: Excellent
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Gnu wrote:
I sit at around 10k. Then I make some money, say 50k, then I go gear up some off-class. Back to 10k.

I just don't enjoy crafting or gathering all that much. There I said it. I did at one point but then I got bored with it. That is the route to making Gil though, as well as understanding the market and spending time at the AH board. Nah, I'll just keep doing what I enjoy instead.

So my FC wants to get a house and they will ask, "Gnu you have anything to contribute?" and I'm going to be like, "Not really, sorry. ><" This is the first time my personal play style is going to be a detriment to my FC. I guess we need a new level of promotions in our FC, "House Owners" or something, which I won't be part of.

Really though, the profits for RMT just shot through the roof. Anyone watch prices on Gil? I don't, but I can guess they just skyrocketed. Yoshi has just made Gil selling/buying a critical part of being a high-end player in FFXIV.

FC housing should have been bought with FC participation/rank credits. And that's all there is to it.


Or at the very least, participation and rank could have given a discount.


Edited, Dec 16th 2013 11:41am by Catwho
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#29 Dec 16 2013 at 10:31 AM Rating: Good
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BartelX wrote:


Showmanship and status? Um, I want a house so that our FC can have a place to hold meetings, for members to craft, where we can gather for fun events, and where we can decorate it out how we want to showcase our accomplishments as a group. As it stands currently, that goal is completely out of reach for us for the foreseeable future. Please don't make generalizations about what people want and why.

Of course there's going to be polarizing opinions. There are opinions like that on everything in the world that contrast greatly. But I'd go so far as to say the incredibly vast majority of players... including JP and EU, think the prices are bogus.



You completely missed the fact that the subject changed about half way. Maybe I should have bracketed the two sections.
You won't find me disagreeing that the prices are waaaaay too high in my opinion, even for a Dutch Auction. But I explained my speculation on that, even if I'm not happy about it - this seems like a stalling tactic from SE so they can buy themselves time to get more server structure for Housing.

I've said this before, and I'll say it til I die: MMO's reward the patient, and punish the hasty. The prices will go down on their own, they will likely get adjusted too, given the reaction it garnered out of the player base.

I do not expect either one of these to happen quickly, however, and I recommend people resign themselves to that.

For me, this is one of those situations where I just roll my eyes and move onto the next subject - which for me seems to be this growing trend of a lack of patience in gamerspeople in general. Which, often, winds up becoming contradicting to a lot of their other feedback.

Take Lockouts for instance: People would complain if they were allowed to do Coil once daily at 1/7th the drop rate. They would complain AND quit if they could simply grind it until they had everything and then griped that it was too easy. There's no way for SE to win in this situation, at all. I don't envy their position.
#30 Dec 16 2013 at 10:38 AM Rating: Excellent
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As a fairly casual player, I was stunned by these prices. I'm in a small FC with friends who are just as casual as me, we're all still leveling/gearing up just so we can maybe give Coil a try after the holidays. We figured we'll be playing this for a long time, no rush, right? And everyone kept saying gil doesn't mean as much in ARR...heh...our bank has about 400k.

This was an interesting read:
http://massively.joystiq.com/2013/12/16/the-mog-log-extra-final-fantasy-xivs-great-housing-fiasco/
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#31 Dec 16 2013 at 10:46 AM Rating: Excellent
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HonkeyKong29 wrote:
LebargeX wrote:
HonkeyKong29 wrote:
i dont understand how every player doesn't have at least 1 million gil. if you spent any time crafting/running wp that should be no problem. my FC is 4 friends from rl and we're at about 5.5 mil. our goal is to get to about 6 mil and then wait for a small plot price to come down. No need to panic here .... everyone will get their land in the long run. Just gotta work for it I guess.


Maybe not everyone wants to spend every single gil they've earned in the past 3.5 months on a furniture warehouse :)

I get it .... but there aren't really a ton of things to blow gil on in this game.

And because there aren't a ton of things to blow gil on, there isn't much incentive to spend play time focusing on making gil.
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#32 Dec 16 2013 at 10:48 AM Rating: Good
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HitomeOfBismarck wrote:
[quote=Catwho]

It would be nice of him to come to terms with the fact that there is so much negative feedback over the initial prices and fix it. I said, a few days ago, that patch 2.1 will really be the deciding factor when it comes to 14 for many people. If he doesn't level with his community, he's going to find that many people won't put up with it and leave. I hope he looks to his predecessors and learns from their mistakes.

Edited, Dec 16th 2013 9:54am by HitomeOfBismarck


Personally I played pretty casually after the first week and when I quit after a month and a half I had about 4mil (started with 20k). This was after I had gotten Alchemy to 50 with whatever that cost me, but never used it for a single craft after I dinged so it was just a gil sink for me. I mean I guess it all depends on how you play, but to me prices make sense since it is meant for FC, make it cheaper and the only long term goal present in the game is then gone. HOWEVER

I think this is the important part and which you touch upon. Personally I have no issues with the prices, I think they make sense (I am on Excalibur). It is just that, I don't play anymore because this game does not appeal to me in the first place. Yoshi and SE made a game that is meant for people who want things faster etc (I am not saying this is a bad thing just to be clear, just not what I like) and all of a sudden here they release housing which will actually take some/a lot of time and effort for many people to get. It doesn't really make sense to me. They aimed for a certain MMO crowd with ARR, but all of a sudden they turn around completely and make something that mostly only appeals to the type of player that won't play anyway because of the general direction of the games' systems/content etc. I don't know, it doesn't make too much sense to me and I hope they change it to something the players actually think is more reasonable.
#33 Dec 16 2013 at 10:58 AM Rating: Good
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BartelX wrote:
Prices were already plummeting over the past few weeks. I used to sell earth/lightning crystals for 250 a pop, at the end of November. Now they sell for 100 or less only a couple weeks later. Others are even lower. Even HQ gear prices have dropped. Materia prices, especially high end ones, have completely crashed. From 500k a month ago to 100k or less now for some of the t4s. And now that food doesn't wear on death, those prices are going to plummet. Factor in that people are going to be hoarding now for housing and I can't really imagine the market is going to respond well. I wonder how much gil the RMT are going to sell now... just when they were starting to slow down too, at least on our server. I sincerely hope I'm wrong and this doesn't negatively effect the economy, but I'm certainly concerned.

Crystal prices are determined by how many people are botting that item; legit sales for shards/crystals makes up maybe 20% of the market. When botters get banned, prices go up.

Materia prices dropped because people found out how easy it was to make materia, and then compared fully melded 2 star gear to allaghan and hero's.

I don't see that many people hoarding money to buy a FC house, especially when it gives you nothing other than the ability to say you have a FC house.
#34 Dec 16 2013 at 10:58 AM Rating: Excellent
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Hyrist wrote:
For me, this is one of those situations where I just roll my eyes and move onto the next subject - which for me seems to be this growing trend of a lack of patience in gamerspeople in general. Which, often, winds up becoming contradicting to a lot of their other feedback.

Take Lockouts for instance: People would complain if they were allowed to do Coil once daily at 1/7th the drop rate. They would complain AND quit if they could simply grind it until they had everything and then griped that it was too easy. There's no way for SE to win in this situation, at all. I don't envy their position.


Comparing lockouts on the most hardcore content in the game to housing, which was supposed to be something all the players can enjoy, both casual and hardcore, doesn't seem like a fair assessment. Lockouts on hardcore content are required to gate players who spend 24/7 playing from getting everything immediately and then bailing. That's a pretty standard occurrence in all mmos.

FC housing isn't some endgame content that needs to be gated. It's supposed to be a place where FC's can gather together, craft, and design a place for themselves to unite as a group. What they've done has turned it INTO a status symbol which only the rich and truly hardcore can afford, which is a giant slap in the face to the VAST majority of the playerbase. It has nothing to do with being impatient. They've touted this housing content as a huge part of the 2.1 update, and right now next to no one is even going to be experiencing it for 3+ months. That's not people being impatient, that's people saying wtf SE, this is BS.

I'm all for them making hardcore content with lockouts and drops that take some time to get, because that's what endgame is. In fact, I'd like to see much more endgame content like that so it's not quite so one-dimensional. But housing isn't hardcore content. Grinding gil isn't hardcore content. It's just a time and gil sink to keep people playing, and it feels like a cheesy copout how they are implementing it. I didn't miss your points in your other post at all, I just don't agree with your philosophy that the people who are complaining about these costs are just impatient.

I've patiently waited for housing since well before the game launched. If it was even a moderately reasonable price, heck even 20m gil for the largest house, I'd be ok with that because it's a realistic goal for us to shoot for. But 300m gil, or even 150m gil after 3 months isn't just high, it's ludicrous and something we'll have almost zero chance of achieving. It has nothing to do with patience, it has everything to do with feeling cheated out of content that is supposed to be accessible by all.

BelCrono wrote:
Personally I played pretty casually after the first week and when I quit after a month and a half I had about 4mil (started with 20k). This was after I had gotten Alchemy to 50 with whatever that cost me, but never used it for a single craft after I dinged so it was just a gil sink for me. I mean I guess it all depends on how you play, but to me prices make sense since it is meant for FC, make it cheaper and the only long term goal present in the game is then gone.


Wow, I've played since launch, have 5 crafts to 50, a DoL and DoW to 50, and spent a considerable time playing the market board and crafting/farming and have less than 2m gil. So I guess it just depends on what you're doing, but I know that I'm actually one of the richer players in our FC, and we have players who are on every day playing for several hours, so I'm not so sure you're a good indication of the amounts of gil any casual player will have.

Edited, Dec 16th 2013 12:06pm by BartelX

Edited, Dec 16th 2013 12:12pm by BartelX
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#35 Dec 16 2013 at 10:59 AM Rating: Good
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I wonder if a very small part of this has to do with the difference in land prices in Japan and the US. A small lot in my neighborhood (1/4 acre) sells for $10,000. That same lot in Tokyo or Kyoto would sell for 10 million yen.

Then again, the JP players are just as outraged about it. So who knows...
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#36 Dec 16 2013 at 11:14 AM Rating: Good
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Hyrist wrote:

Either way, the worst thing you have to do is wait.

---

Seriously what is the matter with people an patience these days?


Yeah, because we haven't been waiting for housing since release, right? In the time since release, people have made how much gil? So... we just need about 8 times that much gil to utilize one of the more anticipated features of 2.1. COOL!

It's not going to work as a gil sink because no one can afford it. It's not going to work as a fun casual event to keep less hardcore players occupied because they can't afford it. It doesn't work as new content for 90% of the players because 90% of them can't afford it. Why not just wait until you can accommodate all the players, or instance it. It's all great and awesome they don't want to instance it but then they can't handle every FC getting a house so they put up a huge barrier to entry that relies on either A) hoarding the gil from other players or B) finding some gill fountain that currently doesn't exist. (which I hope is remedied with the daily quests but I'm still doubtful.)
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#37 Dec 16 2013 at 11:16 AM Rating: Excellent
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reptiletim wrote:
I hate to say it but all the high price is going to do is encourage gil buying. Like it or not people are going to look for the path of least resistance. Some LS members said last night they were already getting spam /tells advertising money for housing so the gil sellers are already looking to cash in.


Eww. Smiley: frown
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#38 Dec 16 2013 at 11:17 AM Rating: Good
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stouter wrote:
Crystal prices are determined by how many people are botting that item; legit sales for shards/crystals makes up maybe 20% of the market. When botters get banned, prices go up.

Materia prices dropped because people found out how easy it was to make materia, and then compared fully melded 2 star gear to allaghan and hero's.

I don't see that many people hoarding money to buy a FC house, especially when it gives you nothing other than the ability to say you have a FC house.


Actually, crystal prices are determined by the demand for them. Yes, gilsellers probably sell a majority, but the prices are set by how much people are willing to buy for. If people aren't buying at 200 because the market is saturated or people are hoarding gil, the price drops due to a low demand and high supply.

As far as people hoarding, pretty much everything on the boards in Ultros dropped about 10-30% in the past few days since housing prices were announced. I'd say that's pretty significant and shows that many people are hoarding gil.
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#39 Dec 16 2013 at 11:22 AM Rating: Excellent
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Catwho wrote:
I wonder if a very small part of this has to do with the difference in land prices in Japan and the US. A small lot in my neighborhood (1/4 acre) sells for $10,000. That same lot in Tokyo or Kyoto would sell for 10 million yen.

Then again, the JP players are just as outraged about it. So who knows...


Lets not forget about the difference in land prices between California and Texas. It was so great at one point that people would work from California for 2 years and have enough to buy three houses in Texas that they could buy and then rent out to make money.
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#40 Dec 16 2013 at 11:26 AM Rating: Excellent
Quote:
As far as people hoarding, pretty much everything on the boards in Ultros dropped about 10-30% in the past few days since housing prices were announced. I'd say that's pretty significant and shows that many people are hoarding gil.


I haven't been able to log on in a few weeks because of work but my first thought when I read the housing prices was "This is going to tank economies. WTH are they thinking?". And for being so concerned (rightfully so) about RMT they just went and gave them the Golden Ticket.
#41 Dec 16 2013 at 11:28 AM Rating: Excellent
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BartelX wrote:


I've patiently waited for housing since well before the game launched. If it was even a moderately reasonable price, heck even 20m gil for the largest house, I'd be ok with that because it's a realistic goal for us to shoot for. But 300m gil, or even 150m gil after 3 months isn't just high, it's ludicrous and something we'll have almost zero chance of achieving. It has nothing to do with patience, it has everything to do with feeling cheated out of content that is supposed to be accessible by all.

Wow, I've played since launch, have 5 crafts to 50, a DoL and DoW to 50, and spent a considerable time playing the market board and crafting/farming and have less than 2m gil. So I guess it just depends on what you're doing, but I know that I'm actually one of the richer players in our FC, and we have players who are on every day playing for several hours, so I'm not so sure you're a good indication of the amounts of gil any casual player will have.



If I read correctly, it is 8 mil for a small house on Ultros. I dont feel so bad if ZAM is talking about problems getting a FC house. You guys are constantly crafting and gathering. We've got about half of what we need in my FC. I see us reaching our goal in a month or so, but the cost was indeed a shocker. We were thinking 2-3 mil for a small house...
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#42 Dec 16 2013 at 11:29 AM Rating: Excellent
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SkinwalkerAsura wrote:
Quote:
As far as people hoarding, pretty much everything on the boards in Ultros dropped about 10-30% in the past few days since housing prices were announced. I'd say that's pretty significant and shows that many people are hoarding gil.


I haven't been able to log on in a few weeks because of work but my first thought when I read the housing prices was "This is going to tank economies. WTH are they thinking?". And for being so concerned (rightfully so) about RMT they just went and gave them the Golden Ticket.


Lol! Guess its time to make fish worth something finally. Smiley: nod
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#43 Dec 16 2013 at 11:45 AM Rating: Good
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Valkayree wrote:
BartelX wrote:


I've patiently waited for housing since well before the game launched. If it was even a moderately reasonable price, heck even 20m gil for the largest house, I'd be ok with that because it's a realistic goal for us to shoot for. But 300m gil, or even 150m gil after 3 months isn't just high, it's ludicrous and something we'll have almost zero chance of achieving. It has nothing to do with patience, it has everything to do with feeling cheated out of content that is supposed to be accessible by all.

Wow, I've played since launch, have 5 crafts to 50, a DoL and DoW to 50, and spent a considerable time playing the market board and crafting/farming and have less than 2m gil. So I guess it just depends on what you're doing, but I know that I'm actually one of the richer players in our FC, and we have players who are on every day playing for several hours, so I'm not so sure you're a good indication of the amounts of gil any casual player will have.



If I read correctly, it is 8 mil for a small house on Ultros. I dont feel so bad if ZAM is talking about problems getting a FC house. You guys are constantly crafting and gathering. We've got about half of what we need in my FC. I see us reaching our goal in a month or so, but the cost was indeed a shocker. We were thinking 2-3 mil for a small house...


The problem is, since we're a big FC we want to get a big house. I mean, it doesn't make a lot of sense for us to get the small house when we have about 40-50 active players. But if we try for a big house, even a 5th tier after 3 months is at a price that would cost each member over 1m gil. That's more than most have even earned in their whole 4 months of playing. That's just really frustrating.
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#44 Dec 16 2013 at 11:54 AM Rating: Good
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Valkayree wrote:
BartelX wrote:


I've patiently waited for housing since well before the game launched. If it was even a moderately reasonable price, heck even 20m gil for the largest house, I'd be ok with that because it's a realistic goal for us to shoot for. But 300m gil, or even 150m gil after 3 months isn't just high, it's ludicrous and something we'll have almost zero chance of achieving. It has nothing to do with patience, it has everything to do with feeling cheated out of content that is supposed to be accessible by all.

Wow, I've played since launch, have 5 crafts to 50, a DoL and DoW to 50, and spent a considerable time playing the market board and crafting/farming and have less than 2m gil. So I guess it just depends on what you're doing, but I know that I'm actually one of the richer players in our FC, and we have players who are on every day playing for several hours, so I'm not so sure you're a good indication of the amounts of gil any casual player will have.



If I read correctly, it is 8 mil for a small house on Ultros. I dont feel so bad if ZAM is talking about problems getting a FC house. You guys are constantly crafting and gathering. We've got about half of what we need in my FC. I see us reaching our goal in a month or so, but the cost was indeed a shocker. We were thinking 2-3 mil for a small house...


I've been holding onto cash for quite some time waiting for the prices to be announced. I've got nearly every gold bag I've ever received from a quest or dungeon on my retainer and had planned on donating them all for housing. Now, I think if we all ponied up that much, we couldn't even get close to the small house. The prices are outrageous, period. This move just seems so out of touch.
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#45 Dec 16 2013 at 12:09 PM Rating: Excellent
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Montsegurnephcreep wrote:
Like it was said in another thread, I don't think SE has the server capacity for it right now, so this is what they did. You make reasonable prices, everyone jumps on it and overload.


Months after the 3102 fiasco and they still don't have server capacity? Really?

If you make the prices reasonable, everyone can participate and more of your players will actually get to experience the content. Isn't that the point?
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#46 Dec 16 2013 at 12:09 PM Rating: Excellent
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BartelX wrote:
Valkayree wrote:
BartelX wrote:


I've patiently waited for housing since well before the game launched. If it was even a moderately reasonable price, heck even 20m gil for the largest house, I'd be ok with that because it's a realistic goal for us to shoot for. But 300m gil, or even 150m gil after 3 months isn't just high, it's ludicrous and something we'll have almost zero chance of achieving. It has nothing to do with patience, it has everything to do with feeling cheated out of content that is supposed to be accessible by all.

Wow, I've played since launch, have 5 crafts to 50, a DoL and DoW to 50, and spent a considerable time playing the market board and crafting/farming and have less than 2m gil. So I guess it just depends on what you're doing, but I know that I'm actually one of the richer players in our FC, and we have players who are on every day playing for several hours, so I'm not so sure you're a good indication of the amounts of gil any casual player will have.



If I read correctly, it is 8 mil for a small house on Ultros. I dont feel so bad if ZAM is talking about problems getting a FC house. You guys are constantly crafting and gathering. We've got about half of what we need in my FC. I see us reaching our goal in a month or so, but the cost was indeed a shocker. We were thinking 2-3 mil for a small house...


The problem is, since we're a big FC we want to get a big house. I mean, it doesn't make a lot of sense for us to get the small house when we have about 40-50 active players. But if we try for a big house, even a 5th tier after 3 months is at a price that would cost each member over 1m gil. That's more than most have even earned in their whole 4 months of playing. That's just really frustrating.


Yeah 8-10 million for a small, 30-37.5 million for medium, and 100-125 million for a large is just ridiculous.

I would get a small and bring the cup back for refills.
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#47 Dec 16 2013 at 12:13 PM Rating: Excellent
FilthMcNasty wrote:
Montsegurnephcreep wrote:
Like it was said in another thread, I don't think SE has the server capacity for it right now, so this is what they did. You make reasonable prices, everyone jumps on it and overload.


Months after the 3102 fiasco and they still don't have server capacity? Really?

If you make the prices reasonable, everyone can participate and more of your players will actually get to experience the content. Isn't that the point?


^ This. I get the feeling they don't have the capacity and cannot admit that they don't because of 3102-palooza.

Quote:
Yeah 8-10 million for a small, 30-37.5 million for medium, and 100-125 million for a large is just ridiculous.

I would get a small and bring the cup back for refills.


Or get a water cup and go to the fountain and fill it with soda Smiley: lol
#48 Dec 16 2013 at 12:27 PM Rating: Excellent
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3,178 posts
After actually looking at all the numbers and seeing what is possible and what is not... Holy Nuts!

This is going to **** everyone off just in time to completely overshadow how very awesome all the changes are in Patch 2.1.

What a disaster. I just realized our FC may even break apart, if the richest players decide to ally with a larger FC so they can actually get the furniture bonuses of the larger houses. Why stay with our mid-sized FC and just nerf yourself forever with a small-sized FC plot? We are going to lose at least a few members no doubt, specifically those members that would be able to contribute most to us being able to get a SMALL house.

This is gonna blow.
#49 Dec 16 2013 at 12:37 PM Rating: Excellent
Gnu wrote:
After actually looking at all the numbers and seeing what is possible and what is not... Holy Nuts!

This is going to **** everyone off just in time to completely overshadow how very awesome all the changes are in Patch 2.1.

What a disaster. I just realized our FC may even break apart, if the richest players decide to ally with a larger FC so they can actually get the furniture bonuses of the larger houses. Why stay with our mid-sized FC and just nerf yourself forever with a small-sized FC plot? We are going to lose at least a few members no doubt, specifically those members that would be able to contribute most to us being able to get a SMALL house.

This is gonna blow.


Gah that bites man, sorry. My FC is mid sized but I'm not afraid of losing people because we are all friends IRL...we'll just be homeless for the forseeable future.
#50 Dec 16 2013 at 1:43 PM Rating: Excellent
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589 posts
Community and mainstream sites are starting to comment on it. Seems it's raised a few eyebrows elsewhere in MMO circles.

http://massively.joystiq.com/2013/12/16/the-mog-log-extra-final-fantasy-xivs-great-housing-fiasco/
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#51 Dec 16 2013 at 2:20 PM Rating: Excellent
SolomonGrundy wrote:
Community and mainstream sites are starting to comment on it. Seems it's raised a few eyebrows elsewhere in MMO circles.

http://massively.joystiq.com/2013/12/16/the-mog-log-extra-final-fantasy-xivs-great-housing-fiasco/


Interesting read. I like how the WTF reaction was across the board.
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