Can FFXIV Survive Its Player Base?

Two forum mainstays, the White Knight and the Troll, discuss the state of Final Fantasy XIV in this editorial.

The White Knight - A self-appointed hero who tirelessly defends those in need. The slings and arrows of outrageous customer dissatisfaction shall not scar Square Enix while this stalwart figure is there to defend their actions.

The Troll - Enemy to all but himself, the contrarian Troll knows his opinion is all that matters. No point of view goes undulled by his grinding criticism while he is around.

Today, these two icons debate whether Final Fantasy XIV can survive -- in the face of its own players.

Where do you stand?  Discuss in the ZAM Forums!

Disclaimer: This is a point-counterpoint editorial meant to open a discussion and not necessarily promote either view expressed by the characters within.  Also, I realize it's an Ogre.  FFXIV has no Trolls!

Final Fantasy XIV has had it rougher than almost any other title that came before it. It not only had the prestige of the Final Fantasy series to live up to, but eight years of Square Enix's previous MMO, Final Fantasy XI, to answer for. Players disenchanted by a perceived lack of communication or alleged bias towards Japanese players swore up and down that they would not be fooled by Square Enix again.

By releasing a new MMO, Square Enix essentially put their future in the hands of the players. As with FFXI, it would be a hard sell getting people to make the shift from single-player to an online world. They needed their existing players to vouch for them, but instead, the players lashed out.

After eight years of this imagined persecution at the hands of Square Enix, it was like a powder keg just waiting to burst. People immediately took to Amazon.com to rate down FFXIV, and gaming journalists seemed to take extra delight in highlighting each and every little flaw. In Japan, there were doctored photos depicting FFXIV's funeral, and constant charts of the declining playerbase made public to all. The supposed fanbase essentially killed the title before it could get off the ground.

Even despite the development team changes and free months, the harassment continues. FFXIV is now receiving "awards" like Most Disappointing Title. What's worse -- it has the most votes by far, but I would be surprised if even half of those people played past the beta.

When FFXI was released, it was completely different from the game we know today. It was even completely different from what North American players got in 2004. Why wasn't FFXIV afforded the same luxury of time to build up a solid MMO experience? Complaints abound that the developers didn't listen to the concerns of the players, but as Hiromichi Tanaka stated, they were focused on improving the core game before release and would tackle player concerns afterwards, you know, let the MMO evolve along with who players enjoy it.

Granted, there were issues with the game, such as the UI, but to say the game was "unplayable" is a complete exaggeration. Even FFXI continues to evolve to this day. But will FFXIV have that chance? It's hard to say. The players wanted it their way and they wanted it immediately. Now we all suffer the consequences with a game that may remain a shell of what it could have become.

With a new development team at the helm, it's time for people to move aside and let them work their magic. The game is free to play for the time being, so players have no right to complain. Updates are rolling in and Square Enix needs time to create the magical world they had planned for us from the start.

Hold on a second, you cannot simply place the blame on the players alone. The fact of the matter is FFXIV was released in a completely unplayable state. The players were on board from the very beginning trying to improve it -- to no avail. What happened to building the game with the players? From the alpha to the beta to the final version, it seemed the only major change was the snail's pace battle system. Even then, the developers shrugged it off as something they planned to change anyway.

And why shouldn't Square Enix account for the way they handled FFXI? If I'm going to jump into their new MMO, their track record with such titles is very important. All we saw before was "same old, same old" from the development team. If anything, FFXIV will be granted new life through our response to the game.

You don't have to go to the movies and buy a ticket to know a film is garbage. Square Enix took a gamble by rushing FFXIV out to beta other upcoming MMOs. They flubbed it, and now have to live with the image they have created for themselves. We can't even ride Chocobo or cruise on an airship; this is Final Fantasy?

Players shouldn't have to pay for an incomplete experience; that's what a beta is for. And to compare this MMO with FFXI -- that game was also made almost 10 years ago. Shouldn't a decade of experience have translated to a much better title? Even with the free months, FFXIV was not a game worth paying for at the time of release. I'm still not sure if it is now.

Yes, we have free months to enjoy, which means now is the time to complain more than ever. We were promised a hand in the creation of this game, but in the end, it was slapped away. Now that we broke their piggy bank, we finally have the attention of Square Enix. The game will be free until it's in a playable state, which means the feedback of the players will save this title.

The players may have exhibited some "tough love" during the release of FFXIV, but those tactics got us a new development team and a new direction for the game. It's time to steer this turd towards brighter horizons. We'll see how that turns out.

Comments

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Is it too late?
# Dec 20 2010 at 2:17 AM Rating: Decent
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101 posts
Three things have become very apparent to me in the months since the game was released.

1. Most players (myself included) had an unrealistic expectation of the game to begin with.

2. SE isn't being given a fair chance.

3. FFXIV has potential.

I had originally intend to write a lot more but it quickly became a wall of text so I'll just settle for this. We all know there are problems but I think we are stuck in our discontent, so stuck that we don't realize we are just hurting the game even more. Population size? Revised financial projections? If people took a moment to look beyond the obvious shortcomings of the game to consider how we as consumers who truthfully want the game to thrive are ultimately contributing to its demise with our unconstructive negativity, I think we would be able to, or at least realize how important it is to, filter out the bandwagon QQ in order to be both critical and supportive of SE and FFXIV rather than myopically pessimistic and destructive. Without our support there is no way for the game to survive, no matter how badly you may want an AH. I think a lot of people missed that fact.



Edited, Dec 20th 2010 3:22am by FinalSwag
Is it too late?
# Dec 20 2010 at 3:46 AM Rating: Good
30 posts
It's not unrealistic to expect basic things like travel, useable UI and intermediary quest lines. That's basically a function of tons of MMOs these days.
Is it too late?
# Dec 20 2010 at 5:34 AM Rating: Decent
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101 posts
I can't think of a single MMO that I played near release that had a travel option that was better than anima teleporting within its first few months. I also can't think of a MMO that had a flawless storyline immediately upon release. That is exactly my point. People are using quality markers of games that have been refined for months or even years to determine whether FFXIV is worth playing.

And while I'll be the first to admit there are some obnoxious oversights in the game, the UI being one and the lack of an auto-sort function being another, everyone knows that the disappointment doesn't stem from a few frustrating features or lack thereof, not to mention both of those issues wre addressed/fixed. FFXIV is only the second of SE's notable online MMO's. I would argue that the people who were most vocal and influential about their expectations of the game pre-release are former/current FFXI players. If you look back at old posts, people are asking about advanced jobs, auction houses, even comparing Gladiator play to Paladin play. These are all aspects that are unique to FFXI and to our knowledge were never intended for FFXIV. FFXIV is (in certain ways) unfairly treated as a FFXI expansion that flipped the script as opposed to the new experience that I believe the devs intended for it to be.
no need to complain
# Dec 20 2010 at 1:51 AM Rating: Decent
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179 posts
We are playing for free, its an open beta, no need to complain, all we need to do now is make SE understand that for this game to succeed it needs the following, and without it, it will never work:

1-AH, yes we need one and without it things will never work.
2-Chocobo and airships.
3-Mail
4-More slots for trade function.
5-Content, new quests (not guildleves), epic stories.


no need to complain
# Jan 01 2011 at 2:42 AM Rating: Decent
Scholar
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2,430 posts
daour wrote:
We are playing for free, its an open beta, no need to complain, all we need to do now is make SE understand that for this game to succeed it needs the following, and without it, it will never work:

1-AH, yes we need one and without it things will never work.
2-Chocobo and airships.
3-Mail
4-More slots for trade function.
5-Content, new quests (not guildleves), epic stories.




uh what? things are working just fine with the market wards now.

and how the hell did you put content at the very bottom under such tripe as mail and more trade slots?
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monk
dragoon
[ffxivsig]477065[/ffxivsig]
I enjoy it!
# Dec 20 2010 at 1:36 AM Rating: Default
I actually really enjoy the game. Ive been playin ffxi since the day it came out on ps2. when it came out it wasnt perfect. just look before the sync system. i would log on at a low lvl and not get a party invite or could form a pt cuz of my job. rdm before 40 gets no love ><. a whole day of just trying to solo and wait for a pt wasted over and over again. even the new system (abys) is creating people lvlin jobs they never wanted to lvl just to max it out and play like crap. no system is perfect and never will be. so many people complain that this isn't like there fav game. isnt that the point. i was interested in playing ffxiv because it was a different idea and it looked like they would be doin stuff they wanted to do with ffxi but couldnt. its a pretty game and i dont feel like i have to schedule my life around it. ive lost 2 girl friends to 11 lol. i can log on for hours and do stuff or i can long on for a few mins and still get stuff done. there are some things i dont like. not to fond of the markets but im waiting to see wut they do with it. to me its a good idea just needs work. just like everything they have ever done. i love the battle system i like feeling like im doing something. ive read post of people complaining that its not auto battle where they could leave when ever to use the wc or fix something to eat O.o why are these people not playing a console game where they can hit pause where they can be lazy. people on line are pretty kewl when u mention that u gotta wc. i dont like auto battle. ive fallen asleep pleanty of times in 11 and ive seen all kindsa people do it also. im still low lvl in 14 and im having fun tryin out the crafts and im planing on playing this way past when they start charging or if all hell breaks loose this game is cut short before it can truly shine. just hope people start relizing that all games start somewhere and have been thru all kindsa updates and patches and expansions to get where they are. just give it time. most people set thru other games waiting for fixes. /end of random rant /log into ffxiv
#KiranRedtail, Posted: Dec 19 2010 at 11:33 PM, Rating: Sub-Default, (Expand Post) Seriously? Is this even an argument? Other than the fact that they existed in FFXI, and that there are apparent NPCs at key locations, the fact that you can't experience content that has not been released yet is your reasoning for hating the content that *has* been released?
Please give us AH
# Dec 19 2010 at 10:52 PM Rating: Decent
Well... i have played alot of FFXIV i addmit, i do like the game, but the fact that theres no auction house is the reason im quitting, yes i know, it maybe a lame excuse to make the decision base on theres or not an AH. I gave this game my patience and time, but for me, i feel in my own experience that im wasting my time shouting for armor or weapon/ or to check each user near the NPC that fixes gear/ or to enter the place where you can check the "mules" of other characters where they dont put the right item in the right place. Losing half an hour (or more) trying to get equipment and not get it, it is not fair, i may have dedicated that time doing something around the house or play call of duty, etc. I know you could go out there and get some shards, or whatever but when thats not your real interest, it would be boring to something you dont want in that moment. So i really hope that SE give us an AH soon, im not depreciating the strong efforts this guys are doing, in fact they have made it funner to play, cheers for that, but until we get an AH i'll play again :(.
Float
# Dec 19 2010 at 9:32 PM Rating: Good
The people who complain but still play are the ones who will save FFXIV. To call them trolls is to belittle their dedication. SE might actually start listening to feedback now, and whose feedback is more useful than that of a critic who plays despite the flaws? Feedback like "everything is perfect" would have gotten us where, exactly?

The real trolls are the white knights: there are problems with the game, but anyone who says so is immediately attacked and told to stop playing the game and never come back. The Square-Enix Defense Force poisons the game more than any amount of complaining ever will.
Float
# Dec 21 2010 at 4:40 PM Rating: Decent
CaerithII wrote:
The people who complain but still play are the ones who will save FFXIV. To call them trolls is to belittle their dedication. SE might actually start listening to feedback now, and whose feedback is more useful than that of a critic who plays despite the flaws? Feedback like "everything is perfect" would have gotten us where, exactly?

The real trolls are the white knights: there are problems with the game, but anyone who says so is immediately attacked and told to stop playing the game and never come back. The Square-Enix Defense Force poisons the game more than any amount of complaining ever will.


Theres trolls and theres people trying to make a difference in game play. Say you work at a burger joint. The coustmer who tells you your drinks are flat and you may want to change the carbonation is a helpful person. the one who throws the drink in the servers face and says, "YOU SUCK! IM NEVER COMMING BACK TO THIS *************** is just a assbag.
Waiting for it...
# Dec 19 2010 at 9:30 PM Rating: Decent
on the PS3 i know wont be until...well dont know really lol (kinda pissed about that). Played FFxi for 5 yrs its was my 1st mmorpg and just LOVED it, so much better that playing by yourself. Actually signed for alpha/beta last year (when they said it was going to be released on both systems at once, kinda pissed about that too lol).

But yea i hear all the good/bad things people say about the game and i really dont care cause ill make my own opinion when i get the game.
Failed Game
# Dec 19 2010 at 9:20 PM Rating: Decent
Being a long time FFXI player I looked forward to FFXIV with rose coloured glasses. I knew there would be issues on the release day and not everything would be perfect. I really didn't expect the unplayable lag and insanely impossible to use interface.

I spent extra money to get the 'special edition' so I could play one week early. Now all I wish is that I could get my money back.

This is the single most disappointing game I've ever played. What SE learned from FFXI they simply threw out for the design of FFXIV. I've crawled back to FFXI where, after years of adjustments, SE has a somewhat playable game even though the graphics look like ms-paint.
Still reserving (final) judgment...
# Dec 19 2010 at 8:12 PM Rating: Decent
I can see that many people just hate this game. In fact what attracted me to this game was the fact no one really loved this game. What that meant to me is that I could play a game with people who were indeed hardcore fans and in that be part of a tighter knit community. After years of World of Warcraft I was worn out by the gimmegimmegimmenownownow brats of the new wave of MMORPGers. Gearscore this and 40 hour a week hardcore raiding guild that. It was just too much hassle to be a part of that, so I quit that game back in May. Between then and a month after release I played no MMOs whatsoever. I saw FFXIV and was really impressed with the idea and the look (even though it's really just a re-skinned FFXI). The major problem just about everyone has with this game is that it's old school. Really old school. Intolerably old school. These days a game must go live with certain features (mailbox, auction house, bosses and boss loot). Doing otherwise will certainly cause much outrage throughout the player base, as has been the case here. Personally I will wait patiently until Square Enix patches the game to the point where they will resume a monthly subscription rate. Then I'll have an idea what I'm paying for and if it's worth it.
I don't care what others think
# Dec 19 2010 at 7:37 PM Rating: Default
Okay, I agree that this game was a bit disappointing when it comes out. I agree that yes, some of the critism is valid.

However, all I can say is, I was among the first to purchase FFXI and I stopped playing right away in 1 month (essentially after free period is over). Right now I am into the 3rd month in FFXIV and I would still pay to play it once the free period is over. Yeah, there is still the occasional F**K SE! WHAT THE HELL WERE THEY THINKING WHEN THEY DESGINED *****!!!?!? But with each of the update, I grew to like playing the game more and more.

I don't give a damn for what the pundits and critics say. All I konw is that I enjoy this game. I love spending time online in FFXIV.

So in the end, who cares what others say? To each their own.
Unfair
# Dec 19 2010 at 6:22 PM Rating: Default
From the time of release this game has reminded me of the movie Meet the Parents. Though Ben Stiller shouldn't of done some of the things he did like lie to his hopeful future father-in-law he was never given a fair chance. People hated the game from literally day one which was WAY too early to form an opinion about an MMORPG. I for one LOVE FFXIV and always will. It was a bit rough of a start, but it is now an amazing game that I am obsessed with.

Graphics are amazing. I play with real life friends in the game so it's not that lonely, and I do meet and talk to quite a few people so socially the game isn't terrible. the combat system is SO fun, I love every second of grinding where in FFXI it was literally a chore.

Lack of game content? WTF are people talking about? No everything isn't released yet but you know it is coming obviously. I am constantly busy and never find myself without something to do. There are main story line quests, leves that reset every 36 hours with new ones always around the corner, a well done crafting system at least in my opinion where I actually WANT to craft, behest once an hour where you get to party with insane amounts of players to go raise hell, I LOVE IT!

People need to form their own opinions and give FFXIV a chance again and learn to be a little patient as it only gets better from here. I feel sorry for anyone that missed out just because of release day faults.

Edited, Dec 19th 2010 7:23pm by jackson68x
Unfair
# Dec 20 2010 at 3:48 AM Rating: Excellent
30 posts
Why give FFXIV a chance when there are so many better games on the market? FFXIV was given a chance. Plenty of us were early adopters.
Unfair
# Dec 19 2010 at 8:00 PM Rating: Excellent
Sage
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551 posts
jackson68x wrote:


People need to form their own opinions and give FFXIV a chance again and learn to be a little patient as it only gets better from here. I feel sorry for anyone that missed out just because of release day faults.

Edited, Dec 19th 2010 7:23pm by jackson68x

We did form our own opinion, bub. That's why the game is mostly empty now.

And mised out because of "release day issues"? Since when does "release day" last 2+ friggin' months? Take the glasses off.
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[ffxivsig]1815523[/ffxivsig]
Turd Indeed
# Dec 19 2010 at 6:18 PM Rating: Good
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295 posts
But is there a good way for a player to voice their ideas on a subject?

Is there any way we can facilitate some basic needs, and discussion among the player base about overall improvements?

I would imagine that the reaction from SE means that they are keeping an eye on the forums, so I request the help of our forum moderators to track the ideas from the community, and keep them organized.

I can't blame SE for not being able to sift through all the crap posted on their beta forums, but I can blame them for not taking any initiative towards responding to players concerns over problems with the core functions of the game.

The only thing that SE really communicated was information regarding the stability of the engine. Honestly, they should have had a staff member keep an eye out for threads that had value, and then had those threads marked for observation, even if alpha testers couldn't see which threads they had marked.

Also, Cheesecake is still in the middle of the room.
Turd Indeed
# Dec 20 2010 at 9:49 AM Rating: Good
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812 posts
MetalSmith wrote:

Also, Cheesecake is still in the middle of the room.

That's some old-*** cheesecake, I wouldn't touch it. ;)
Offensive to people with good taste
# Dec 22 2010 at 4:06 PM Rating: Good
I find it offensive to consider people with good taste in MMO's to be trolls. The only thing they want is for the game to be better. The "White Knights" as you call them are just so fanboy-ish that they blind themselves to the truth that this game was released and still is in a horrible state, for every single step they tried to make this game "innovative" they took 10 steps back. It might be good one day, but it's going to be a long while, play something more entertaining in the meantime.

Should've just called the "White Knights" Blind Fan-boys, and the Trolls, People with Good Taste.
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