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I think ARR will fail.Follow

#77 Feb 27 2013 at 7:44 AM Rating: Good
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kainsilv wrote:


Just to be fair. Some of those who repeatedly preach the doom of the game also happen to hold legacy accounts and characters capped at 50 on every job. What you say is true and a bit of a paradox at the same time.



Which is why I stated that the tone of the forums will likely not change.

There will always be haters and fanbois at any level of the discussion, at any level of development. Because, honestly, people love to debate. Everyone has different views and everyone loves justifying their own as right - even if it is factually untrue.

Haters do tend to be louder than fanboi's though - I'll give them that much. The "White Knights" probably fear for good reason, given the fact that SE is listening, and they don't want them listening to extremist hyperbole that the internet is known for.

I've never seen a company or site that's enforced moderate, cool headed debate and feedback but man do I feel the internet desperately needs one.
#78 Feb 27 2013 at 7:51 AM Rating: Decent
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I've never seen a company or site that's enforced moderate, cool headed debate and feedback but man do I feel the internet desperately needs one.


xkcd.com does, or at least used to, and I've found a few others. Can't say I care for that kind of forum personally. It's a nice change of pace for a while, but all the moderation gets annoying fast.
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#79 Feb 27 2013 at 8:37 PM Rating: Excellent
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Where did I say fixing 1.0 was going to fix the franchise? Where did I say anyone was fixing the franchise? I'm talking about this one game. They need to MMO features, yes, but they need to make sure that what makes Final Fantasy games stand out is also present. That was my point, that is what will make this a better than average MMO.

If you have been following the news at all you know that Yoshi and his team are listening to the fans and taking them seriously. If one thing is abundantly clear it's that SE is listening this time around and is going to release something that people will want to play.


I think that this game is do or die for the franchise. If ARR fails, I very strongly suspect that it'll be the last FF game made by SE. Someone else may pick up the IP and continue it from there, but it won't be done under SE.

I've been paying attention halfheartedly to ongoing news. I've heard the same thing I always hear: "This will be great! The fans will be happy! We fixed everything!" I heard largely the same for 1.0. You'll have to forgive me if I'm skeptical.
#80 Feb 27 2013 at 8:47 PM Rating: Excellent
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I strongly disagree. If one thing came across during my meeting with Yoshi, it's that the FF franchise is the MOST important to Square Enix. No way would they let it go.

Then again, I don't think it will flop Smiley: grin
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#81 Feb 27 2013 at 9:18 PM Rating: Decent
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I have to ask. When you said you were paying attention "halfheartedly," did that really mean you weren't at all? *Pulls out yellow card of B.S.* Or did you hear one person tell you something and you just generalized the entire community opinions?

The fans will be happy? *That's a big duh, they're fans.* What the new director is aiming for is something that reaches beyond that. Final Fantasy fans alone won't be enough.

We fixed everything? Yea, this line is ultimately what earned you a yellow card. Even the Shiniest of White Knights would never make such a claim. Especially since none of the specifics are ever really mentioned. You know SE and their, "please look forward to this!" I wonder if you EVER visited the main forums. The White Knights of the Round gather there.

I don't know what 1.0 you're referring to, but from what I heard, the game was ***, and if it were launched, it'd still be ***. I don't know about this fixing everything you speak of. What I did hear was, talks of the miracle patch (that came a year later). I mean you even said it yourself.

Caia wrote:

If you think simply fixing what was wrong with 1.0 is going to fix the franchise, you're kidding yourself. Way too many people were not only upset at 1.0, but VERY upset at SE for releasing such a game AND for telling everyone that it would be great. This only got worse after everyone in beta said, "Hey, if you release this game, its going to bomb. And bomb badly."
Edited, Feb 27th 2013 2:02am by Caia


There is a distinct difference in the handling of 1.0 and 2.0. While your dislike of the first release is understandable, comparing the two of them the way you are is somewhat dishonest.

Having doubts is a normal thing. Then again, so is jealousy. If we never kept that that in check... hmmm.... I digress..

I wonder what would happen, if I were cheated on, but kept up that mistrust, even when I met a new companion. When till this moment, they never gave me a reason to mistrust them. I'm sure that relationship is going to last through the test of time.

Do I trust them to make a game that I agree with 100%? Nope. I trust however, that they're smart enough not to waste all this time, energy, brand image and money, to just fail again. If there is one thing I can count on, is that they don't want to lose. If they win, I win. I'm not arrogant enough to think my approval matters more than their financial losses, even if I'm a fan.

If S.E. started making the same mistakes they did during, and leading up to the launch of 1.0, a large amount of doubt should be expected. However, that isn't the case. If there is something specific you have concern with, please share with the class. Vague statements, and predictions of failure and financial destruction is epic, but lets stick to reality.



Edited, Feb 27th 2013 10:30pm by GDLYL
#82 Feb 27 2013 at 10:12 PM Rating: Decent
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Hello all, new to the forum.

I'm also new to FFXIV. I never played 1.0, the game just turned me off when I first saw it. I had no idea it was even still around or had been re-booted til I caught an article on Kotaku. Now I've been devouring all the videos and info I can find on the game.

Right now, the videos make the new version look great. But There's very little in the way of actual game play info, just teasers from Yoshi-P. Would be nice if they would actualy communicate more with us outside of the PR blurbs.

I think ARR has a good chance of doing well, but I have to say that what I have seen community wise and communication wise from SE makes me nervous. The Offical forums are a mess, atleast as bad as the WoW forums. There's lots of nastyness and the fact that a small group went all 4chan on PA for a bad review just dose not speak well or give a good impression of the community.

The way the BETA is being handled is another thing I think reflects badly on SE. They put up the Beta recruitment with no info other than that you would be selected based on how you filled out the survey. We later find out from someone with a big mouth that the E-mail states that only the Legacy members would get into Phase 1 and 2, we had no info of this from SE at all.
While this wouldn't be a big deal since we wouldn't have even known about it had someone not broken NDA, there's also the fact that they put out a tweet stating that all Alpha testers would get a beta invite, this is after they had already posted in the offical forums that Alpha testers would not be automaticaly selected and would have to wait to be selected from the general pool.
All in all this give the impression that SE is not all that interrested in new players or the opinions of those who are just now learning of the game.

Speaking of the NDA, something that has confused me is that SE granted all Legacy Members access to the BETA, the problem is FFXIV is a Teen rated game. How are they handling the fact that any legacy member under 18 cannot agree to the NDA? If answering this deals with breaking the NDA, then don't answer. I'll just have to keep wondering til after phase 4.
#83 Feb 27 2013 at 10:46 PM Rating: Decent
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Wyldkat wrote:
Hello all, new to the forum.

I'm also new to FFXIV. I never played 1.0, the game just turned me off when I first saw it. I had no idea it was even still around or had been re-booted til I caught an article on Kotaku. Now I've been devouring all the videos and info I can find on the game.

Right now, the videos make the new version look great. But There's very little in the way of actual game play info, just teasers from Yoshi-P. Would be nice if they would actualy communicate more with us outside of the PR blurbs.

I think ARR has a good chance of doing well, but I have to say that what I have seen community wise and communication wise from SE makes me nervous. The Offical forums are a mess, atleast as bad as the WoW forums. There's lots of nastyness and the fact that a small group went all 4chan on PA for a bad review just dose not speak well or give a good impression of the community.

The way the BETA is being handled is another thing I think reflects badly on SE. They put up the Beta recruitment with no info other than that you would be selected based on how you filled out the survey. We later find out from someone with a big mouth that the E-mail states that only the Legacy members would get into Phase 1 and 2, we had no info of this from SE at all.
While this wouldn't be a big deal since we wouldn't have even known about it had someone not broken NDA, there's also the fact that they put out a tweet stating that all Alpha testers would get a beta invite, this is after they had already posted in the offical forums that Alpha testers would not be automaticaly selected and would have to wait to be selected from the general pool.
All in all this give the impression that SE is not all that interrested in new players or the opinions of those who are just now learning of the game.

Speaking of the NDA, something that has confused me is that SE granted all Legacy Members access to the BETA, the problem is FFXIV is a Teen rated game. How are they handling the fact that any legacy member under 18 cannot agree to the NDA? If answering this deals with breaking the NDA, then don't answer. I'll just have to keep wondering til after phase 4.


Interesting on the leak info about only legacy get invited to beta


Edited, Feb 27th 2013 11:52pm by hikoneko
#84 Feb 27 2013 at 10:51 PM Rating: Good
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Speaking of the NDA, something that has confused me is that SE granted all Legacy Members access to the BETA, the problem is FFXIV is a Teen rated game. How are they handling the fact that any legacy member under 18 cannot agree to the NDA?


My guess is that they didn't really even think about it. They can still remove leaks that they find, they just can't take any legal action. But most games will have players who leak info, and it's almost unheard of that there actually be any legal action taken against them except in the most egregious cases.

But if you're a beta participant who's a minor and you wanna go rogue with a massive leak storm, there's really nothing to stop you other than the slim risk of being permabanned.
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Ok, now we're going to get slash fiction of Wint x Kachi somehere... rule 34 and all...

Never confuse your inference as the listener for an implication of the speaker.

Good games are subjective like good food is subjective. You're not going to seriously tell me that there's not a psychological basis for why pizza is great and lutefisk is revolting. The thing about subjectivity is that, as subjects go, humans actually have a great deal in common.
#85 Feb 27 2013 at 11:14 PM Rating: Decent
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Edit:

Hehe seems I took too long in typing out my reply and the original post changed ;p

The leak was on the Offical forums for a short time before the Mods locked it down, since the bone head copy and pasted the Beta E-mail.


There are quite a few leaks out there right now, but that's all I'm gonna say about it myself. Too many people don't seem to understand the NDA is not only to keep competitors from learning about the game before it's launched, it's to keep stupid rumors from running rampant before the game is set in stone.

Edited, Feb 28th 2013 12:25am by Wyldkat
#86 Feb 27 2013 at 11:56 PM Rating: Good
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Interesting questions. I hadn't considered the NDA contract from a minor's perspective. Also interesting SE can't really do much about it.
#87 Feb 28 2013 at 12:02 AM Rating: Good
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Well considering the worst thing SE is likely to do for violation is cancel the offending party's beta access, there's no real issue for them.

If they were going to sue someone on account of the NDA, they'd have a problem with a minor who could never have entered that contract to begin with.
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#88 Feb 28 2013 at 2:17 AM Rating: Decent
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The whole NDA agreement is a joke, because it will never-ever be enforced in court. It's just a simple reminder that if you talk, you'll be out of the game. Literally. And that there'll be absolutely nothing YOU can do about it.
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If ARR fails, I very strongly suspect that it'll be the last FF game made by SE.

No. I think 15 is already in the making for PS4, and possibly that tech demo from the "African" suburb is actually one of it's major cutscenes. What I fear more is that this could relegate XIV to being a mistake of the past which is better forgotten than focused on.
#89 Feb 28 2013 at 2:58 AM Rating: Good
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I have to ask. When you said you were paying attention "halfheartedly," did that really mean you weren't at all? *Pulls out yellow card of B.S.* Or did you hear one person tell you something and you just generalized the entire community opinions?


No, I meant exactly what I said. I've paid attention to some of the news. Its not something I go out of the way to look for, but I do pay some attention as new things come up.

As for the quotes, I took a bit of liberty with them to sum up my general thoughts briefly. I have heard the same general things that I always hear about any game coming out. That alone isn't enough to sway me.

Quote:
There is a distinct difference in the handling of 1.0 and 2.0. While your dislike of the first release is understandable, comparing the two of them the way you are is somewhat dishonest.


Not at all. From what information I have seen, its a very fair comparison. We've seen little game play released, the ongoing beta is under an NDA, and we're --yet again-- left with people who need this project to succeed telling us it'll all be great this time around. That's exactly what we got in 1.0 at least until the open beta rolled around.

Is the game going to be good? I don't know. I DO know that I've seen all this spin and hype before and was very disappointed. The fact that they've released so little game play footage is not reassuring nor is having everyone under an NDA.

Quote:
If S.E. started making the same mistakes they did during, and leading up to the launch of 1.0, a large amount of doubt should be expected. However, that isn't the case. If there is something specific you have concern with, please share with the class. Vague statements, and predictions of failure and financial destruction is epic, but lets stick to reality.


Ok, let's stick to reality. Minimal game play footage, an NDA, and the same spin we always get. So far SE seems to be doing much the same as it did last time. I don't have much more to go on than that. SE seems to like to keep us in the dark. Does that, realistically, sound like something a company should do with its flagship product?
#90 Feb 28 2013 at 3:17 AM Rating: Default
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As much as I desperately want this game to succeed so I can have an amazing, quality MMO to play again, I haven't been wowed by any of the official footage released. When Yoshi showed off the game for the first time at E3 or whatever event that was it was quite disappointing. To me it seemed kind of sad, as if he was saying, "H-hey everybody, look at my game. You can jump in it now. I'm not telling you no piddy pies, look at all of this jumping. Jumpy jump jump jump jump."

I can understand that they may be behind on development and many departments might be putting the finishing touches on various aspects. But as someone mentioned before it just seems like they are showing off that mechanics work or that certain things are included, not what the experience will be. They better bust their butts in the next 6 months or I'll have to wait until FFXIV 3.0 v.v
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#91 Feb 28 2013 at 3:22 AM Rating: Good
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Rinsui wrote:
The whole NDA agreement is a joke, because it will never-ever be enforced in court. It's just a simple reminder that if you talk, you'll be out of the game. Literally. And that there'll be absolutely nothing YOU can do about it.
Quote:
If ARR fails, I very strongly suspect that it'll be the last FF game made by SE.

No. I think 15 is already in the making for PS4, and possibly that tech demo from the "African" suburb is actually one of it's major cutscenes. What I fear more is that this could relegate XIV to being a mistake of the past which is better forgotten than focused on.


Yes, they have a penchant for the dramatic. But it's ok though, they draw these suspected opinions on halfheartedly glancing and information.

DamienSScott wrote:
As much as I desperately want this game to succeed so I can have an amazing, quality MMO to play again, I haven't been wowed by any of the official footage released. When Yoshi showed off the game for the first time at E3 or whatever event that was it was quite disappointing. To me it seemed kind of sad, as if he was saying, "H-hey everybody, look at my game. You can jump in it now. I'm not telling you no piddy pies, look at all of this jumping. Jumpy jump jump jump jump."

I can understand that they may be behind on development and many departments might be putting the finishing touches on various aspects. But as someone mentioned before it just seems like they are showing off that mechanics work or that certain things are included, not what the experience will be. They better bust their butts in the next 6 months or I'll have to wait until FFXIV 3.0 v.v


Thanks for sharing based on the oldest footage. Keep waiting on that 3.0, it'll be made exactly as you desire.

Edited, Feb 28th 2013 4:30am by GDLYL
#92 Feb 28 2013 at 3:33 AM Rating: Good
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If end of an era didnt wow you, perhaps youve just outgrown the franchise.

Its a Final Fantasy, the story is supposed to 'wow' you. Just saying before we start nitpicking.
#93 Feb 28 2013 at 4:03 AM Rating: Good
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Caia wrote:
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I have to ask. When you said you were paying attention "halfheartedly," did that really mean you weren't at all? *Pulls out yellow card of B.S.* Or did you hear one person tell you something and you just generalized the entire community opinions?


No, I meant exactly what I said. I've paid attention to some of the news. Its not something I go out of the way to look for, but I do pay some attention as new things come up.

As for the quotes, I took a bit of liberty with them to sum up my general thoughts briefly. I have heard the same general things that I always hear about any game coming out. That alone isn't enough to sway me.

Quote:
There is a distinct difference in the handling of 1.0 and 2.0. While your dislike of the first release is understandable, comparing the two of them the way you are is somewhat dishonest.


Not at all. From what information I have seen, its a very fair comparison. We've seen little game play released, the ongoing beta is under an NDA, and we're --yet again-- left with people who need this project to succeed telling us it'll all be great this time around. That's exactly what we got in 1.0 at least until the open beta rolled around.

Is the game going to be good? I don't know. I DO know that I've seen all this spin and hype before and was very disappointed. The fact that they've released so little game play footage is not reassuring nor is having everyone under an NDA.

Quote:
If S.E. started making the same mistakes they did during, and leading up to the launch of 1.0, a large amount of doubt should be expected. However, that isn't the case. If there is something specific you have concern with, please share with the class. Vague statements, and predictions of failure and financial destruction is epic, but lets stick to reality.


Ok, let's stick to reality. Minimal game play footage, an NDA, and the same spin we always get. So far SE seems to be doing much the same as it did last time. I don't have much more to go on than that. SE seems to like to keep us in the dark. Does that, realistically, sound like something a company should do with its flagship product?


Oh, it's perfectly OK if you're not swayed. You just sound like you glanced at some info and then you drew very large assumptions from there, that's all. You seem unaware as to how the community stands on certain game play aspects.

I said stick to reality, and you did the same exact thing as before.Smiley: disappointed You searched your limited current information then filled in the blanks with 1.0 release.

Minimal gameplay footage- Comming from a person who admittedly doesn't go out of their way to seek the information. It's probably why you haven't found any. I will say however that the "flood" was very subjective lol. (I didn't see it either. Maybe because I wanted moar!) You kept yourself in the dark. Let me be clear, I'm not interested in you liking the game. Just that your obvious lack of info stood out to me.

I don't remember Tanaka giving us live and written letters while being open with the community. It must have slipped my mind. Tanaka also answered lots of questions from the fans! Same exact thing, both times. When certain topics are really popular, the devs respond to the thread telling us what Tanaka thinks of the idea. If it's in, not it, nice idea but not a priority etc.

There are so many, albeit, silly threads on the forums bring up the various mechanics of the game based on the game play footage that you claim doesn't exist.

I have no idea how they should be running their flagship franchise. Neither do you. What they did last time definitely didn't work though! However, to say that they're doing the same thing again is false. I hope you find what you're really looking for.
#94 Feb 28 2013 at 4:37 AM Rating: Good
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Ostia wrote:
Hyrist wrote:
Ostia wrote:
Jesus you guys are harsh Smiley: laugh Sure he is trolling and biting but damm Smiley: glare I tho you guys where all cool and calm :(


You strike me as familiar....

Curious question. Do you know Hyrist's last name?


Is this some sort of trick question ?? I am really bad at those :( :(

Btw: Googling hyrist brings a lot of material from FFXI, is that you ?

Trick question indeed! We are in the same linkshell and I don't even remember your Surname. Smiley: lol

As for the topic at hand, no one here is in position to say if it's good or not due to NDA, plus something that may seem good to one person may not seem good for another. Why not just sit tight and wait til open beta, try it and THEN decide, because until then there cannot be an open and knowledgeable discussion on the changes because of NDA.

Edited, Feb 28th 2013 4:50am by Niknar
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#95 Feb 28 2013 at 7:52 AM Rating: Decent
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I just need to emphasize this, because this is not fair to SE:

BETA PHASE 1 IS NOT EXCLUSIVE TO LEGACY.

I'm not going to say how I know this. But this rumor is not true, and it's not fair to SE to criticize them for only making the Closed Beta stages open to its most loyal fans--this is absolutely not the case.
#96 Feb 28 2013 at 7:56 AM Rating: Excellent
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I do know that Alpha participators got an invite to the Beta as well.
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#97 Feb 28 2013 at 8:15 AM Rating: Decent
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Rinsui wrote:
The whole NDA agreement is a joke, because it will never-ever be enforced in court. It's just a simple reminder that if you talk, you'll be out of the game. Literally. And that there'll be absolutely nothing YOU can do about it.
Quote:
If ARR fails, I very strongly suspect that it'll be the last FF game made by SE.

No. I think 15 is already in the making for PS4, and possibly that tech demo from the "African" suburb is actually one of it's major cutscenes. What I fear more is that this could relegate XIV to being a mistake of the past which is better forgotten than focused on.


I agree nda is a joke..

Rinsui wrote:
The whole NDA agreement is a joke, because it will never-ever be enforced in court. It's just a simple reminder that if you talk, you'll be out of the game. Literally. And that there'll be absolutely nothing YOU can do about it.
Quote:
If ARR fails, I very strongly suspect that it'll be the last FF game made by SE.

No. I think 15 is already in the making for PS4, and possibly that tech demo from the "African" suburb is actually one of it's major cutscenes. What I fear more is that this could relegate XIV to being a mistake of the past which is better forgotten than focused on.


You very well could be wrong here. If FFXIV fails it could put SE right out of business.. Well known fact they lost like millions in a quarter for a long time now and a big part of that was FFXIV. I think they came down from 150 million a quarter a year or so ago to now loosing around 60 million. That is allot for a software company and they are sticking allot into FFXIV. SE is not the size they used to be either. Why do you think FFXIV is such a big deal? If it fails it might be the end of SE this time so there is allot riding on it.. But yes there is a FF game in development for the PS4.

I doubt it would be the last we see of FF series though because the ipo is worth something and would be sold. Problem is could anyone but SE do a FF game.







Edited, Feb 28th 2013 9:28am by Nashred

Edited, Feb 28th 2013 9:35am by Nashred
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#98 Feb 28 2013 at 9:18 AM Rating: Decent
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I'm not telling you no piddy pies


lol'd quite hard Smiley: lol
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Ok, now we're going to get slash fiction of Wint x Kachi somehere... rule 34 and all...

Never confuse your inference as the listener for an implication of the speaker.

Good games are subjective like good food is subjective. You're not going to seriously tell me that there's not a psychological basis for why pizza is great and lutefisk is revolting. The thing about subjectivity is that, as subjects go, humans actually have a great deal in common.
#99 Feb 28 2013 at 10:19 AM Rating: Decent
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Hmm not sure if I'm reading the post right or not.

I did not say that Phases 1 and 2 are Legacy exclusive, I said that the Beta E-mail posted on the offical forums had stated that and that later in one of their tweets SE had stated that all alpha testers would get an invite as well.

This was after SE had made an offical post on the forums stating that Alpha testers would not get an auto invite, but would have to wait like everyone else.


Now if this is not true at all, and it was just a case of some idiot stirring up crap on the offical forums, then SE dropped the ball by only deleting the post and not refuting it on the forums or in a tweet. SE needs to be more clear on the Beta process so as to keep bad press at a minimum.

We want people to be excited about the game, not feel like they are going to be treated like second class citizens because they didn't play version 1.0. and right now SE is creating the impression that anyone who wasn't in 1.0 dosen't matter. That's not a good thing is they want to have the game grow.
#100 Feb 28 2013 at 10:27 AM Rating: Excellent
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This is starting to feel like a variation of the already beaten to death legacy versus non-legacy that has been done to death.

Smiley: deadhorse
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#101 Feb 28 2013 at 10:39 AM Rating: Decent
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The slim amounts of official gameplay videos from Alpha are very early. I almost wish they showed nothing, because people make judgements on unfinished content and spread these opinions. This is also exactly why there's an NDA. Instead of providing helpful feedback for testing, they tweet "lol 2.0 sucks, I quit."
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