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PVP Worlds...Follow

#277 Jun 03 2013 at 3:56 PM Rating: Good
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Seriously para, just drop it. Take it with a grain of salt and move on. It's nothing to get worked up over, it's a forum after all. There are going to be people you don't agree with or view a certain way. It's not a big deal.
#278 Jun 03 2013 at 3:57 PM Rating: Decent
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I think Wint's too tired of reading all this crap to even realize how lock-worthy it is. This should have been locked three pages ago. I assume you reported it, in which case, good on you.
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Ok, now we're going to get slash fiction of Wint x Kachi somehere... rule 34 and all...

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#279 Jun 03 2013 at 4:00 PM Rating: Good
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Kachi wrote:
I think Wint's too tired of reading all this crap to even realize how lock-worthy it is. This should have been locked three pages ago. I assume you reported it, in which case, good on you.


Is there a way to report a thread other than just sending him a PM? If so, I completely agree. This has gone on far longer than it really should have...
#280 Jun 03 2013 at 4:06 PM Rating: Excellent
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You can always stop posting and let it die.
#281 Jun 03 2013 at 4:06 PM Rating: Default
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Hit the little "Report" button on any post.

Edit:

And before it's locked, let me state one last thing: When one person holds a certain opinion of you from how you act, you can say they are just misinterpreting. When two people do, you can say they must just be of the same mind. When several people see something in how you act, perhaps you need to look in the mirror and understand something about yourself that you may not like very much.

Edited, Jun 3rd 2013 6:08pm by Pawkeshup
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Olorinus the Ludicrous wrote:
The idea of old school is way more interesting than the reality
#282 Jun 03 2013 at 4:09 PM Rating: Default
Hatamaz wrote:
Ostia wrote:
Tanks/healers had waiting times of 1-10 seconds, DD's had waiting times of 30 Minutes, thus you have the majority of the population waiting on a minority, that is a problem


I hope I'm awake enough now that you indeed did say this and I am quoting you correctly.

This makes sense to me because there are usually a ton more DD jobs than healer/tank jobs.

My thinking is, that if you make it to where the party doesn't need a healer/tank but can still function albeit not as efficient that you'll still mostly have the same issue you have now with people just waiting on the optimal set up with healer/tank. But if you go too far with making every class more versatile in the party setting then it becomes what's the point of having a healer/tank when I can grab an extra DD or 2 and the fights are faster therefore more efficient.

I don't have a solution for it. I'm not a game designer who gets paid to try to come up with these solutions. But I guess it just doesn't bother me that much to be honest. I actually like the holy trinity. It makes me feel like we're all a cog in the wheel to keep things going. If one is missing then things just aren't going to work out as well as it could.


See this is the perfect example of what has happened in this thread... Nowhere did i ever mentioned removing tanks or healers, you got to that conclusion on your own, you do not have to make every other class more versatile, you have to make healing and tanking appealing to more people :) Thus increasing the tank/healer population.
#283 Jun 03 2013 at 4:19 PM Rating: Good
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Sad cause I really did like the main discussion of the thread. The idea of the varying persuit of Player vs Player and its innate difficulties, just within the community in general.

It almost serves as a strong point against player vrs player and justifies the use of digression on the part of Yoshida on how broad he releases it.

Like forums, open world PvP leaves itself quite open to abuse without proper moderation, and in turn only appeals to a specific ideal. I feel as if these ideals are in constast to the message Final Fantasy brings forth when bringing together a community.

Then again, I felt the same way of old FFXI HNM mechanics, so take that with a grain of salt.
#284 Jun 03 2013 at 4:31 PM Rating: Default
I'm late to the thread, but I know why it went sour based on this fanbase. Everyone thinks they have an idea of what a holy and pure Final Fantasy game should/needs to be. It needs to be this. It needs to be that. It needs to have a subscription. It can't have open PVP. That's "not Final Fantasy".

I would really enjoy a PVP world, and games with good PVP offer me limitless endgame whereas I will get bored if new PVE content isn't added frequently.

FFXI was the other Final Fantasy MMORPG that you can compare XIV to (obviously offline singleplayer Final Fantasy games are not PVP), and I think it would have been much more fun if there were more PVP options than the Ballista type stuff.
#285 Jun 03 2013 at 4:40 PM Rating: Good
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Sorry Killua but that tone was a bit negatively received there on my end.

I am courious however as to how you would impliment it, and off of what game refences you beleive it would be helpful to emulate, especially given the teamwork orientated nature of every single Final Fantasy to date.

My opposition is primarily ganking. I don't think it's a good mechanic to introduce into any Final Fantasy. I feel it brings a very negative community tone, and that's off of experience in PvP games. People tend to be overtly aggressive when they can simply kill someone without recompense.

I happened to like the sport-based PvP FFXI introduced and was saddened they did not follow through further on it. I enjoy the concept of being competitive without being antagonistic.
#286 Jun 03 2013 at 4:57 PM Rating: Default
I love ganking, it makes me feel on my toes like I could die at any time.

I understand why people don't like it, but the OP was suggesting both PVE and PVP worlds.

I liked Ballista and... Brenner? but participation was low (even very early in the game's lifespan, on my server) and it wasn't fleshed out enough. I would have enjoyed some more straightforward PVP options as well in FFXI.

Edited, Jun 3rd 2013 7:00pm by Killua125
#287 Jun 03 2013 at 4:59 PM Rating: Default
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Killua125 wrote:
I'm late to the thread, but I know why it went sour based on this fanbase. Everyone thinks they have an idea of what a holy and pure Final Fantasy game should/needs to be. It needs to be this. It needs to be that. It needs to have a subscription. It can't have open PVP. That's "not Final Fantasy".
I would love a freemium/free-to-play Final Fantasy game. What I don't want is Final Fantasy:WoW edition. What no one wants is yet another generic-feeling MMO with open world ganking, broken classes, constant rebalancing for this gripe or that, and retreaded ideas.

The problem is that once you invite that demographic into a game, most games devolve into gank-fests, with the forums crying for nerfs on just about everything.

Killua125 wrote:
I would really enjoy a PVP world, and games with good PVP offer me limitless endgame whereas I will get bored if new PVE content isn't added frequently.

FFXI was the other Final Fantasy MMORPG that you can compare XIV to (obviously offline singleplayer Final Fantasy games are not PVP), and I think it would have been much more fun if there were more PVP options than the Ballista type stuff.
And is it so wrong to have a game cater to a different crowd? Does everything have to have PvP, just like every console game has to have forced in multiplayer? I am not a fan of Yoshi wanting PvP, or setting up parallel development for both PvP and PvE, but I'm willing to give it a chance even if I think it's a waste of developer time. Not everything has to come out of the MMO factory with the same basic mechanics but a different coat of paint...

Hyrist wrote:
Sorry Killua but that tone was a bit negatively received there on my end.

I am courious however as to how you would impliment it, and off of what game refences you beleive it would be helpful to emulate, especially given the teamwork orientated nature of every single Final Fantasy to date.

My opposition is primarily ganking. I don't think it's a good mechanic to introduce into any Final Fantasy. I feel it brings a very negative community tone, and that's off of experience in PvP games. People tend to be overtly aggressive when they can simply kill someone without recompense.

I happened to like the sport-based PvP FFXI introduced and was saddened they did not follow through further on it. I enjoy the concept of being competitive without being antagonistic.
And mine are too. I personally thought Ballista fit much more closely into the mentality and storylining of XI, and having a battle arena would fit into FFXIV from what I've heard.

For the record, I would not be opposed to an FF having open world PvP on the conceit that it would be done differently than what has been done previously. And the storyline would have to support it. I honestly thought of suggesting a FF-based MMO that would be based in the FFVII setting where you could choose your side between SOLDIER and AVALANCHE, as that setting would give a more balanced world view for a PvP-centric game.
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Olorinus the Ludicrous wrote:
The idea of old school is way more interesting than the reality
#288 Jun 03 2013 at 5:04 PM Rating: Default
I will admit that it doesn't fit with the lore for everyone to be out murdering each other in the open world, but since everyone in ARR is going to have hundreds of floating airships and Cait Siths following them around, I think they're just throwing the idea of sticking to lore at all times right out the window.

I thought about it for a minute, and PVP is gonna be stupid in FFXIV anyway. I actually wouldn't want open PVP in ARR, after balance was mentioned.

The job-class system is so funky and bizarre, and I doubt they would bother balancing two versions of every class for both PVE and PVP.

But in a perfect world, I really do enjoy PVP.

Edited, Jun 3rd 2013 7:06pm by Killua125
#289 Jun 03 2013 at 5:17 PM Rating: Good
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Killua125 wrote:
I will admit that it doesn't fit with the lore for everyone to be out murdering each other in the open world, but since everyone in ARR is going to have hundreds of floating airships and Cait Siths following them around, I think they're just throwing the idea of sticking to lore at all times right out the window.

I thought about it for a minute, and PVP is gonna be stupid in FFXIV anyway. I actually wouldn't want open PVP in ARR, after balance was mentioned.

The job-class system is so funky and bizarre, and I doubt they would bother balancing two versions of every class for both PVE and PVP.


On the matter of lore (Not certain if I can touch the subject of separate kits in detail) The Cait Sith and Airship minions are toys, they're not lore breaking in any way, really as they are just convenient. World PvP is a bit more serious of a topic and much harder to implement both within lore and within the mechanics. Again, we're not certain enough if the game is going to be wildly successful to justify making separate worlds for that sort of appeal at this point anyways and I severely doubt that Final Fantasy themed PvP is really going to draw enough of an audience on its own to justify its own set of servers, given how divided things are going to be as it is with the regional servers and Legacy-permitted servers.

If anything, I'd say it would be better off being permitted in some sort of specific zone sense: A lawless badlands sort of deal, then a purely open server dedicated to World PvP.

But again, I'm not one for ganking. I just don't enjoy being on the receiving end, and being on the giving end usually makes me feel cheap.

Edited, Jun 3rd 2013 7:17pm by Hyrist
#290 Jun 03 2013 at 5:46 PM Rating: Excellent
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Sorry guys, been busy doing yardwork and getting ready for my vacation this coming weekend. This has gone on long enough.
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