Well after my ironic post I guess I should "officially" say my opinion! (look at me all officially pffff I suck)
I took a look at the most "popular" threads they got there. It's like the op that makes each one of them intentionally twists the info from the live letters and spread inaccurate info in an effort to start a forum brawl. I always picture the op sitting in front of his monitor with pop corn and with a big smile on his face while reading the responses.
Sometimes a few years back when I was against or I was supporting something I was searching the internet in an effort to find info that will help me "win" the argument. Most of the times I wouldn't read the full article but the first 2 sentences that helped me only or I would use the info and present it in a way that would help my claim. Of course now that I am older I understand it was wrong and that I had nothing to gain from that but it seems the guys in the forums are in that teenage phase that want to be right and do whatever it takes to make it happen.
The problem with that is that there is a portion of people that are easily persuaded from this kind of people because they do not bother to get into searching themselves.
And yes we do have people like that in ZAM as well the people that use misleading thread names or make outrageous claims etc but again it's in such a smaller scale that makes ZAM a paradise if you compare it with the beta forums.
No one said that the game is perfect (or at least I hope no one said that) but if you sir are trying to add problems/mistakes that are not there just because you want to make a difference then you sir are a doucheb**.
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Xoie wrote:
I went to the beta forums out of curiosity, and never have I seen more simultaneous, over-the-top tantrums thrown in the same place outside of a preschool. Actually I'm pretty sure preschoolers are more well behaved. Were we that bad in the early FFXI days and I just don't remember? Because it sure seems like the clientèle is reaching new lows I never knew existed.
Or has the community there been conditioned to believe that phrasing dissatisfaction in the most hyperbolic, demeaning fashion short of breaking the Terms and Conditions is the only way to get what they want?
Or has the community there been conditioned to believe that phrasing dissatisfaction in the most hyperbolic, demeaning fashion short of breaking the Terms and Conditions is the only way to get what they want?
Guess the banhammer must be warming up over there...
If I recall correctly, the forum only disables permissions to post 30 days after login inactivity, so it'll be about a month after the free trial ends before the dust settles and the MMO hoppers move on to their next future disappointment.
Though I be they have their arguments all lined up for the next title to 'fail'. Being a hater is hard work - lots of rehearsal and preparation.
Though I be they have their arguments all lined up for the next title to 'fail'. Being a hater is hard work - lots of rehearsal and preparation.
Wint wrote:
ShonaSeraph wrote:
I haven't seen the beta forums at all, but they seem awful.
Many internet forums nowadays can be described as 'first world problems'.
I'm sure people just want to play as soon as possible and as much as possible therefore the news hit hard.
To be honest, it's only 7 or 8 days away for most... we'll get to play 3 or 4 days, take a 4 or 5 day break, then play forever.
It's hardly the end of the world, especially for people who have lives and jobs.
I'd like to think that most of the complainers will be gone once the free trial ends, and we'll be back to a somewhat normal community.
I applaud the Zam mods for keeping these forums civil.
Many internet forums nowadays can be described as 'first world problems'.
I'm sure people just want to play as soon as possible and as much as possible therefore the news hit hard.
To be honest, it's only 7 or 8 days away for most... we'll get to play 3 or 4 days, take a 4 or 5 day break, then play forever.
It's hardly the end of the world, especially for people who have lives and jobs.
I'd like to think that most of the complainers will be gone once the free trial ends, and we'll be back to a somewhat normal community.
I applaud the Zam mods for keeping these forums civil.
Nothing to do with me for the most part, you guys should take the credit
We will mold and craft Ultros into a state of civility
Xoie wrote:
It's more civil here without a doubt.
Complaints don't bother me in and of themselves. If every thread on the beta forums were simply expressing a desire for more free time or concern that end game isn't ready enough, I wouldn't bat an eye. It's not even that people disagree with those viewpoints that bothers me. A spirited debate is fine and sometimes makes you think of things you hadn't thought of before.
It's that those disagreements get taken to a whole other level of desperate rage. Those boards are smothered in it. It isn't enough to say you felt misled, it's that SE HAS LIED TO YOU!!! 11!!122@3 and anyone who doesn't pick up a torch and/or pitchfork is the enemy. It isn't enough to say you like the game, it's that those who want changes are breaking your immersion. It isn't enough to say you wish things were better, it's that those who are satisfied are getting in the way of the gameplay you want to see added.
Sure, we have trolls and whiteknights around here and the occasional silly fight, but it's nothing compared to how insane I've seen it get on SE's official forums.
All I'm saying we shouldn't be comparing other forums to Zam, that's it. Frankly, I was disappointed with Zam back at FFXIV's 1.0 launch and the fallout after it. You had people with valid arguments being sub-defaulted because fanboys defended the game despite the disaster. There was absolutely zero criticism by the "good posters" and it was sort of a love fest and words I won't use on this forum.
I'd probably agree with you about the other forums if you put a gun to my head, but again, this isn't about that. If the ZAM community is so much better than the Beta, why do our people need to go out of their way to insult them over here? I think you'll agree despite your feelings that you're right about the actual state of that said forum, it doesn't excuse our community for sinking to the same lows.
Edited, Aug 9th 2013 8:46am by ShadowedgeFFXI
Shadow why are you taking this so personal? No one is calling out anyone . Its a general observation that there are far more complainers and doom Sayers in the beta forums than here.
Zam isent perfect but there is less arguing and if it get out ta hand it gets locked down. I much rather come here and talk about game things than venture in the beta forums .
Zam isent perfect but there is less arguing and if it get out ta hand it gets locked down. I much rather come here and talk about game things than venture in the beta forums .
silverhope wrote:
Shadow why are you taking this so personal? No one is calling out anyone . Its a general observation that there are far more complainers and doom Sayers in the beta forums than here.
Zam isent perfect but there is less arguing and if it get out ta hand it gets locked down. I much rather come here and talk about game things than venture in the beta forums .
Zam isent perfect but there is less arguing and if it get out ta hand it gets locked down. I much rather come here and talk about game things than venture in the beta forums .
Because I've been a member for the ZAM community for a long time and this isn't how I conduct myself. If we have an internal conflict with another ZAM member, that's different, but this isn't right. This is no different than having guild members insulting people(laughing at them) just because another guild is imploding. I don't see the need to make these insults or jokes at the expense of people whether they read it or not. Let's be better than that, ok.
Opinions are different than pointing and laughing. Many are just saying how they feel about the beta forums . I can understand your point if everyone was saying " so and so on the beta forums is a complete idiot" but that's not what's happening. Op just talked about his distaste with the content over there and I think its valid.
Someone seeking positive opinions on something that is being littered with doomsayers and haters is not wrong. The only person here who made this into a negative thread was you. And took it way off topic.
For being on topic I kinda liked the seasonal outfits I wanna be a snowman so bad !! Snowman on a evil eye monster = win.
Someone seeking positive opinions on something that is being littered with doomsayers and haters is not wrong. The only person here who made this into a negative thread was you. And took it way off topic.
For being on topic I kinda liked the seasonal outfits I wanna be a snowman so bad !! Snowman on a evil eye monster = win.
ShadowedgeFFXI wrote:
All I'm saying we shouldn't be comparing other forums to Zam, that's it. Frankly, I was disappointed with Zam back at FFXIV's 1.0 launch and the fallout after it. You had people with valid arguments being sub-defaulted because fanboys defended the game despite the disaster. There was absolutely zero criticism by the "good posters" and it was sort of a love fest and words I won't use on this forum.
I'd probably agree with you about the other forums if you put a gun to my head, but again, this isn't about that. If the ZAM community is so much better than the Beta, why do our people need to go out of their way to insult them over here? I think you'll agree despite your feelings that you're right about the actual state of that said forum, it doesn't excuse our community for sinking to the same lows.
I'd probably agree with you about the other forums if you put a gun to my head, but again, this isn't about that. If the ZAM community is so much better than the Beta, why do our people need to go out of their way to insult them over here? I think you'll agree despite your feelings that you're right about the actual state of that said forum, it doesn't excuse our community for sinking to the same lows.
I'm going to slightly disagree with you here. I was here at 1.0 launch, and I was one of the posters who had criticisms of the game. As long as I wasn't being an *sshat and saying stuff like "this game is terrible, everything about it is awful", I never got sub-defaulted. There were actually things I liked about 1.0. Yes, there were a crapton of things I didn't like, and I posted about them as constructively as I could. Yes there were whiteknights who defended everything about the game, but there were a lot of people who also agreed with the criticisms. A lot of the hate was directed towards the posters who could post nothing but negativity, or who gave that smug "See? I told you so!" mentality about how right they were. No one likes that.
I'm sure you can find examples of people getting sub-defaulted for poor reasons, as you probably still can today. No forum is perfect, but I don't think it was as grim as you are painting it, and I can say that from experience since I was here at 1.0 launch.
Bartel Hayward--- Ultros Server
The Kraken Club <ZAM>
50 WAR • 50 MNK • 50 MIN • 50 GSM • 50 ARM • 50 LTW • 50 CUL • 50 WVR
thekrakenclub.shivtr.com
The Kraken Club <ZAM>
50 WAR • 50 MNK • 50 MIN • 50 GSM • 50 ARM • 50 LTW • 50 CUL • 50 WVR
thekrakenclub.shivtr.com
ShadowedgeFFXI wrote:
Xoie wrote:
It's more civil here without a doubt.
Complaints don't bother me in and of themselves. If every thread on the beta forums were simply expressing a desire for more free time or concern that end game isn't ready enough, I wouldn't bat an eye. It's not even that people disagree with those viewpoints that bothers me. A spirited debate is fine and sometimes makes you think of things you hadn't thought of before.
It's that those disagreements get taken to a whole other level of desperate rage. Those boards are smothered in it. It isn't enough to say you felt misled, it's that SE HAS LIED TO YOU!!! 11!!122@3 and anyone who doesn't pick up a torch and/or pitchfork is the enemy. It isn't enough to say you like the game, it's that those who want changes are breaking your immersion. It isn't enough to say you wish things were better, it's that those who are satisfied are getting in the way of the gameplay you want to see added.
Sure, we have trolls and whiteknights around here and the occasional silly fight, but it's nothing compared to how insane I've seen it get on SE's official forums.
All I'm saying we shouldn't be comparing other forums to Zam, that's it. Frankly, I was disappointed with Zam back at FFXIV's 1.0 launch and the fallout after it. You had people with valid arguments being sub-defaulted because fanboys defended the game despite the disaster. There was absolutely zero criticism by the "good posters" and it was sort of a love fest and words I won't use on this forum.
I'd probably agree with you about the other forums if you put a gun to my head, but again, this isn't about that. If the ZAM community is so much better than the Beta, why do our people need to go out of their way to insult them over here? I think you'll agree despite your feelings that you're right about the actual state of that said forum, it doesn't excuse our community for sinking to the same lows.
Edited, Aug 9th 2013 8:46am by ShadowedgeFFXI
That happens on all forums.. That is fan-boys who would defend something no matter how bad it is. I have been reading the Sony forums lately and now Sony is going to charge for online play and the same people who bashed MS for doing it on the xbox are saying it is great for Sony.. Wow..
I try to stay away from the official forums unless I really have a complaint because SE reads those forums. They do read others on occasion too.
Example last night someone said we should be great full to SE.. Really? We pay for this game and we pay a monthly fee. I think SE should be great full we play the game because with out us they have no game. It is just backwards thinking. Some of these people will defend SE like SE actually cares about them and will be at their funeral and they have a personal stake in the company. There is nothing wrong with liking a game but fanaticism isn't good.
I have to say there are a few things that bother me now after the live letter. It has not been confirmed but it is thought that legacy players can now switch after several weeks but with less gill... I hope this is not true and was not clarified by them. It is not so much about the economy for me it is more about I don't want to start a game 3 years behind. If people want to transfer to a new server they should start from zero level and gil. I don't care if legacy people get special in game stuff they deserve it for sticking with the game. This is truly a new game it should be reset anyway. Apparently this is a big enough issue for allot of people and I don't know why SE didn't leave it be. they had a happy medium. I just wish SE would address and make it clearer about this before it gets worse.
Edited, Aug 9th 2013 10:29am by Nashred
FFXI: Nashred
Server: Phoenix
FFXIV : Sir Nashred
server: Ultros
Server: Phoenix
FFXIV : Sir Nashred
server: Ultros
Nashred wrote:
ShadowedgeFFXI wrote:
Xoie wrote:
It's more civil here without a doubt.
Complaints don't bother me in and of themselves. If every thread on the beta forums were simply expressing a desire for more free time or concern that end game isn't ready enough, I wouldn't bat an eye. It's not even that people disagree with those viewpoints that bothers me. A spirited debate is fine and sometimes makes you think of things you hadn't thought of before.
It's that those disagreements get taken to a whole other level of desperate rage. Those boards are smothered in it. It isn't enough to say you felt misled, it's that SE HAS LIED TO YOU!!! 11!!122@3 and anyone who doesn't pick up a torch and/or pitchfork is the enemy. It isn't enough to say you like the game, it's that those who want changes are breaking your immersion. It isn't enough to say you wish things were better, it's that those who are satisfied are getting in the way of the gameplay you want to see added.
Sure, we have trolls and whiteknights around here and the occasional silly fight, but it's nothing compared to how insane I've seen it get on SE's official forums.
All I'm saying we shouldn't be comparing other forums to Zam, that's it. Frankly, I was disappointed with Zam back at FFXIV's 1.0 launch and the fallout after it. You had people with valid arguments being sub-defaulted because fanboys defended the game despite the disaster. There was absolutely zero criticism by the "good posters" and it was sort of a love fest and words I won't use on this forum.
I'd probably agree with you about the other forums if you put a gun to my head, but again, this isn't about that. If the ZAM community is so much better than the Beta, why do our people need to go out of their way to insult them over here? I think you'll agree despite your feelings that you're right about the actual state of that said forum, it doesn't excuse our community for sinking to the same lows.
Edited, Aug 9th 2013 8:46am by ShadowedgeFFXI
That happens on all forums.. That is fan-boys who would defend something no matter how bad it is. I have been reading the Sony forums lately and now Sony is going to charge for online play and the same people who bashed MS for doing it on the xbox are saying it is great for Sony.. Wow..
I try to stay away from the official forums unless I really have a complaint because SE reads those forums. They do read others on occasion too.
Example last night someone said we should be great full to SE.. Really? We pay for this game and we pay a monthly fee. I think SE should be great full we play the game because with out us they have no game. It is just backwards thinking. Some of these people will defend SE like SE actually cares about them and will be at their funeral and they have a personal stake in the company. There is nothing wrong with liking a game but fanaticism isn't good.
I have to say there are a few things that bother me now after the live letter. It has not been confirmed but it is thought that legacy players can now switch after several weeks but with less gill... I hope this is not true and was not clarified by them. It is not so much about the economy for me it is more about I don't want to start a game 3 years behind. If people want to transfer to a new server they should start from zero level and gil. I don't care if legacy people get special in game stuff they deserve it for sticking with the game. This is truly a new game it should be reset anyway. Apparently this is a big enough issue for allot of people and I don't know why SE didn't leave it be. they had a happy medium. I just wish SE would address and make it clearer about this before it gets worse.
Edited, Aug 9th 2013 10:29am by Nashred
Why does it matter though? If they are able to move to other servers after several weeks that means it gives you me (I am not legacy btw) time to level up and be on equal ground with the legacy players. If you ask me I don't care all together but on a different note it is good for some because there are people that have legacy friends and want to play together but not in a legacy server so that gives them a chance to be together again.
BartelX wrote:
I'm going to slightly disagree with you here. I was here at 1.0 launch, and I was one of the posters who had criticisms of the game. As long as I wasn't being an *sshat and saying stuff like "this game is terrible, everything about it is awful", I never got sub-defaulted. There were actually things I liked about 1.0. Yes, there were a crapton of things I didn't like, and I posted about them as constructively as I could. Yes there were whiteknights who defended everything about the game, but there were a lot of people who also agreed with the criticisms. A lot of the hate was directed towards the posters who could post nothing but negativity, or who gave that smug "See? I told you so!" mentality about how right they were. No one likes that.
I'm sure you can find examples of people getting sub-defaulted for poor reasons, as you probably still can today. No forum is perfect, but I don't think it was as grim as you are painting it, and I can say that from experience since I was here at 1.0 launch.
I was here from the beginning too when I was looking for advice when we first heard about the crazy benchmark. The general vibe of the forums was we had fanboys on one side who were all sages and "respected members of the community" and anyone who knocked the game was defaulted and bullied. I was there and that was my experience. I'm not going to debate this, I was there, let it go.
I rather hear your input about my point about holding up a higher standard for ZAM posters. I've heard from a previous poster that "all fan-boys do this so it's ok" kind of rhetoric. If you can offer any input on that, I'd be grateful.
Teravibe wrote:
Nashred wrote:
ShadowedgeFFXI wrote:
Xoie wrote:
It's more civil here without a doubt.
Complaints don't bother me in and of themselves. If every thread on the beta forums were simply expressing a desire for more free time or concern that end game isn't ready enough, I wouldn't bat an eye. It's not even that people disagree with those viewpoints that bothers me. A spirited debate is fine and sometimes makes you think of things you hadn't thought of before.
It's that those disagreements get taken to a whole other level of desperate rage. Those boards are smothered in it. It isn't enough to say you felt misled, it's that SE HAS LIED TO YOU!!! 11!!122@3 and anyone who doesn't pick up a torch and/or pitchfork is the enemy. It isn't enough to say you like the game, it's that those who want changes are breaking your immersion. It isn't enough to say you wish things were better, it's that those who are satisfied are getting in the way of the gameplay you want to see added.
Sure, we have trolls and whiteknights around here and the occasional silly fight, but it's nothing compared to how insane I've seen it get on SE's official forums.
All I'm saying we shouldn't be comparing other forums to Zam, that's it. Frankly, I was disappointed with Zam back at FFXIV's 1.0 launch and the fallout after it. You had people with valid arguments being sub-defaulted because fanboys defended the game despite the disaster. There was absolutely zero criticism by the "good posters" and it was sort of a love fest and words I won't use on this forum.
I'd probably agree with you about the other forums if you put a gun to my head, but again, this isn't about that. If the ZAM community is so much better than the Beta, why do our people need to go out of their way to insult them over here? I think you'll agree despite your feelings that you're right about the actual state of that said forum, it doesn't excuse our community for sinking to the same lows.
Edited, Aug 9th 2013 8:46am by ShadowedgeFFXI
That happens on all forums.. That is fan-boys who would defend something no matter how bad it is. I have been reading the Sony forums lately and now Sony is going to charge for online play and the same people who bashed MS for doing it on the xbox are saying it is great for Sony.. Wow..
I try to stay away from the official forums unless I really have a complaint because SE reads those forums. They do read others on occasion too.
Example last night someone said we should be great full to SE.. Really? We pay for this game and we pay a monthly fee. I think SE should be great full we play the game because with out us they have no game. It is just backwards thinking. Some of these people will defend SE like SE actually cares about them and will be at their funeral and they have a personal stake in the company. There is nothing wrong with liking a game but fanaticism isn't good.
I have to say there are a few things that bother me now after the live letter. It has not been confirmed but it is thought that legacy players can now switch after several weeks but with less gill... I hope this is not true and was not clarified by them. It is not so much about the economy for me it is more about I don't want to start a game 3 years behind. If people want to transfer to a new server they should start from zero level and gil. I don't care if legacy people get special in game stuff they deserve it for sticking with the game. This is truly a new game it should be reset anyway. Apparently this is a big enough issue for allot of people and I don't know why SE didn't leave it be. they had a happy medium. I just wish SE would address and make it clearer about this before it gets worse.
Edited, Aug 9th 2013 10:29am by Nashred
Why does it matter though? If they are able to move to other servers after several weeks that means it gives you me (I am not legacy btw) time to level up and be on equal ground with the legacy players. If you ask me I don't care all together but on a different note it is good for some because there are people that have legacy friends and want to play together but not in a legacy server so that gives them a chance to be together again.
I dont care if they transfer I just want them to have to start over on level and gil. I started FFXI 3 years late and all I did was feel like I was trying to catch up. I thought this was a new game and everyone was starting at the same level. It makes a difference to me I don't want to start a game 3 years late. They keep changing the policy on which it was advertised.
This game did not make it on legacy players it needs new blood and why do things that makes new players rethink playing. The legacy player will be there anyway if the game is good. Again I don't care if they have special in-game items or what ever, they deserve that kind of stuff. I don't care about playing with legacy players either because they could show me the ropes I just want a even playing field.
Edited, Aug 9th 2013 10:44am by Nashred
FFXI: Nashred
Server: Phoenix
FFXIV : Sir Nashred
server: Ultros
Server: Phoenix
FFXIV : Sir Nashred
server: Ultros
Well I understand and agree on being on an even playing field..heck that is why I don't want to start on a legacy server. But for me at least if they allow them to transfer their character after like 2 months...I don't care. Because SE gave me enough time to catch up with any legacy player out there. So by the time they get in my server I will be on an even playing field.
Teravibe wrote:
Well I understand and agree on being on an even playing field..heck that is why I don't want to start on a legacy server. But for me at least if they allow them to transfer their character after like 2 months...I don't care. Because SE gave me enough time to catch up with any legacy player out there. So by the time they get in my server I will be on an even playing field.
Yea but they said 2 or 3 weeks now... But did not clarify if that excluded legacy players. My guess is it includes them or why would they have mentioned transferring with limited gil. Anyone new would not have enough to bother with at that point.
I mean if someone is putting a party together and if there are level 50 players and me who will they choose? a newbie to the game or a veteran. It is stuff like that. it wont even matter about skill people will assume they level 50 is better.
It is not just me either, My girlfriend mentioned the same thing when I got home yesterday.. I also have a few people from FFXI that are coming along to play with us and feel the same way.. One is really upset because we talked him into coming over to FFXIV and he went and bought a ps3 just for this game to have a fresh start. he was very reluctant and now they make us liars too if this is true.
I don't know why they cant just set some new servers for legacy to transfer too and those who don't care can go too..but leave some of the new servers for just those new people that want to be by themselves. Not a hard thing.
Edited, Aug 9th 2013 11:21am by Nashred
FFXI: Nashred
Server: Phoenix
FFXIV : Sir Nashred
server: Ultros
Server: Phoenix
FFXIV : Sir Nashred
server: Ultros
ShadowedgeFFXI wrote:
I was here from the beginning too when I was looking for advice when we first heard about the crazy benchmark. The general vibe of the forums was we had fanboys on one side who were all sages and "respected members of the community" and anyone who knocked the game was defaulted and bullied. I was there and that was my experience. I'm not going to debate this, I was there, let it go.
I rather hear your input about my point about holding up a higher standard for ZAM posters. I've heard from a previous poster that "all fan-boys do this so it's ok" kind of rhetoric. If you can offer any input on that, I'd be grateful.
I rather hear your input about my point about holding up a higher standard for ZAM posters. I've heard from a previous poster that "all fan-boys do this so it's ok" kind of rhetoric. If you can offer any input on that, I'd be grateful.
To your top paragraph, fair enough. Everyone has different experiences. To your bottom paragraph, I'm not sure exactly what you mean. ZAM has trolls and jerks just like any forum, but I still like it more than any other forum because the ratio of those posters to the nice, helpful, informative posters is extremely low. On the beta forums, that ratio is much higher. Same goes for other forums I've looked at such as gamefaqs or mmorpg.com or lodestone forums. I really feel like I'm part of a beneficial community here, whereas on the beta forums I honestly don't. I feel like most threads I click on are going to be nothing but flames, e-peen wagging, and trolling. That is why I personally enjoy these forums more. I don't consider it looking down upon other forums, I just consider it my preference in taste. Perhaps there's bias there, it's difficult to really remove myself from the situation since I've been an active poster here for so long.
That's just my perspective on the matter, and you're free to disagree with it or interpret it differently.
Bartel Hayward--- Ultros Server
The Kraken Club <ZAM>
50 WAR • 50 MNK • 50 MIN • 50 GSM • 50 ARM • 50 LTW • 50 CUL • 50 WVR
thekrakenclub.shivtr.com
The Kraken Club <ZAM>
50 WAR • 50 MNK • 50 MIN • 50 GSM • 50 ARM • 50 LTW • 50 CUL • 50 WVR
thekrakenclub.shivtr.com
Scholar
39 posts
ShadowedgeFFXI wrote:
Honestly, I wouldn't say that about people that complain. Sure there are always a few trolls, but the majority of them are probably upset at SE over their disastrous 1.0. It's like when you make a bad first impression and all your flaws stand out after that. I'm growing a little tired of the insults of the Beta forums. Frankly this elitism that ZAM is somehow better than other places is just immature. In reality, we have our share of trolls here. We also have this retarded karma system that further warrants bullying of people whom you disagree with in general. On top of all that, these forums have a very SE biased feel to them which doesn't make me feel any better.
The bottom line is you're wrong.
All I was saying is that once the subscription starts the people who are in Beta just for the free playtime will drop out, and that should help clean that forum up. And of course Zam has trolls (not sure I agree about the SE bias though). In any case, the displays of self-entitlement and QQing are much less frequent here.
FilthMcNasty wrote:
You could take screenshots in FFXI on the PS2. You missed capturing the instruction manual
I think you misinterpreted me. I was trying to draw a comparison between being able to screenshot in FFXI, and not being able to in ARR.
Scholar
30 posts
The latest live letter was a lot of what I expected personally with a few surprises. Many people are not being realistic when it comes to development and a project of this size. Not to mention with so many people involved that things can change and disclaimers (if the fine print is actually read) are all over the place. The team has had a few setbacks but overall they are progressing along the road map they have laid out which you have to give credit where it is due unless you can honestly lay out a plan that in reality could do better.
Today's generation is of the want it now mentality and patience, that which was once a virtue has gone by the waist side while derogatory and obscene comments have become weapons of choice to strike back when things don't go the way we want. Seeing some of the threads that have spawned from the english beta forums is beyond sad and presents an unfair portrayal of the majority of FFXIV gamers that are supporting the game and are above that type of behavior. Its just really unfortunate that so much negativity can result from people not educating themselves on what they're getting involved in and in turn trying to point the finger at someone to make up for their inability to keep themselves informed.
I look forward to release and playing alongside new and old players alike that appreciate the work that has went into creating this game and the experiences that we'll likely remember for many years to come.
If it weren't for the clamor you could hear my voice
As such I stay quiet and await the day
I can say the things I could not say
The negativity it stifles
Each breath harder to pass
The constant struggle
Not knowing which side will persevere
The days shall go by
Eventually those in the midst will get weary
Leading to a calm
A bitter-sweet respite
Again will I try
Can you hear my voice?
I stayed strong when I couldn't speak
I endured the negativity
I exerted patience until the day
Now I will shout
There is no holding back
I am a survivor.
There are others they are we
Together we shall go forward
To make Eorzea the best it can be
Today's generation is of the want it now mentality and patience, that which was once a virtue has gone by the waist side while derogatory and obscene comments have become weapons of choice to strike back when things don't go the way we want. Seeing some of the threads that have spawned from the english beta forums is beyond sad and presents an unfair portrayal of the majority of FFXIV gamers that are supporting the game and are above that type of behavior. Its just really unfortunate that so much negativity can result from people not educating themselves on what they're getting involved in and in turn trying to point the finger at someone to make up for their inability to keep themselves informed.
I look forward to release and playing alongside new and old players alike that appreciate the work that has went into creating this game and the experiences that we'll likely remember for many years to come.
If it weren't for the clamor you could hear my voice
As such I stay quiet and await the day
I can say the things I could not say
The negativity it stifles
Each breath harder to pass
The constant struggle
Not knowing which side will persevere
The days shall go by
Eventually those in the midst will get weary
Leading to a calm
A bitter-sweet respite
Again will I try
Can you hear my voice?
I stayed strong when I couldn't speak
I endured the negativity
I exerted patience until the day
Now I will shout
There is no holding back
I am a survivor.
There are others they are we
Together we shall go forward
To make Eorzea the best it can be
Sorry, Shadow. But I can't agree with you this time.
FFXIV Beta forums have earned their reputation and deserve their beradement. From the worst troll up to the blind or overwhemed admins that exist. There should have been a much harsher lockdown on what been going on than what has been happening, a good long time ago, in fact when Beta Started, which is when the problem started.
Instead, children and the immature have been allowed to run rampant, and I cannot, in good faith, recommend those forums to anyone. In fact I'm to the point where I feel as if people should be actively discouraged. That's how bad it's gotten.
What's worse, is that the administration cannot take such criticism in stride, and even have a ToU clause against it. It's a self depreciating process that has no solution other than to wait it out and hope the worst of the bunch leave when they can't hang out in the forums for free - and it's then where I start to fear for communities such as Zam, FFXIV-Roleplayers, and the like as that's where people will go next to expunge their vitriol.
This sort of conduct needs to be actively and unilaterally shamed out of our community as gamers as a whole. And I'm not the only one who's feeling this.
It's become habitual in our culture, and it needs to be stamped out.
FFXIV Beta forums have earned their reputation and deserve their beradement. From the worst troll up to the blind or overwhemed admins that exist. There should have been a much harsher lockdown on what been going on than what has been happening, a good long time ago, in fact when Beta Started, which is when the problem started.
Instead, children and the immature have been allowed to run rampant, and I cannot, in good faith, recommend those forums to anyone. In fact I'm to the point where I feel as if people should be actively discouraged. That's how bad it's gotten.
What's worse, is that the administration cannot take such criticism in stride, and even have a ToU clause against it. It's a self depreciating process that has no solution other than to wait it out and hope the worst of the bunch leave when they can't hang out in the forums for free - and it's then where I start to fear for communities such as Zam, FFXIV-Roleplayers, and the like as that's where people will go next to expunge their vitriol.
This sort of conduct needs to be actively and unilaterally shamed out of our community as gamers as a whole. And I'm not the only one who's feeling this.
It's become habitual in our culture, and it needs to be stamped out.
Rinsui wrote:
Well, I also realized that the official (beta) forum has turned into a cesspit of hatred.
My only explanation is that people over there take the game more serious" than on
Allakhazam; as if they were on some bloody crusade.
My only explanation is that people over there take the game more serious" than on
Allakhazam; as if they were on some bloody crusade.
I find it to be a general trend for 1st party message boards for games. Everyone who plays is going to know about the 1st party forum, and may even have an account to post just from having an account to play the game. So you tend to get a lot of riff raff that you might not get on a 3rd party forum, where people have to go out of their way to find and register and account.
This all makes me happy that everytime I try to access the beta forums I get a screen requesting a password that I do not have because I jumped back on the bandwagon two weeks ago and don't have beta access. I was a member of zam back in 2006 when it was Allakazam, and since I have gotten married and had my kid I lost track for 7 years. I am still wondering when the name change occurred...
Hyrist wrote:
It's become habitual in our culture, and it needs to be stamped out.
Prior to the internet, anonymously expressing one's opinion was simply unavailable. You had to personally live up to your comments in real life, and were ridiculed on the street if you said things that the populace disagreed with. The downside: stifled innovation, the upside: less stupid trolls.
ShadowedgeFFXI wrote:
The bottom line is you're wrong.
ShadowedgeFFXI wrote:
I'm not going to debate this, I was there, let it go.
Maybe you're specific experience is tainted by the fact that you seem to have an attitude in your responses, whether you realize it or not?
I had a very similar experience as Bartel. I was here at 1.0 (tested from alpha in fact and had more criticisms because of the way the tester community on the official forums acted and did not help with constructive criticism) and participated in many conversations where I didn't just tell people they were wrong, I explained why I didn't like something, and how I thought it could be better and my rating (not that I ever cared about it) showed that people didn't sub-default me to hell as you claim. Sure it happens, but I think you're ignoring the tone some of those people took. Someone could've had a valid complaint, and presented it like a jerk, and get rated down for being a jerk, not for the complaint.
Anyway, to the op, I thought the live letter was great! 4 days for phase 4, was shorter than I hoped but it's xp that carries over so I'm not going to complain. Tonberry King! Arcanist gameplay, some other misc info. It was a decent letter, it's not like less than a month away they were going to announce state secrets so I think the official forums doom and gloom is just people being people.
Skipping over the bickering in this thread. Looks like we are also getting a bit too bored over here 
I think we're past WoW O-Board level. I think the beta forums have reached a Diablo 3 O-Board level of terribleness. That's quite an achievement!
Edited, Aug 9th 2013 12:13pm by PhoenixOmbre
Wint wrote:
I seem to recall Blizzard's forums were the same way, it's nothing new, the official forums attract the most people. I used to post on the Playstation forums back when I first started playing FFXI before I found Zam and they drove me nuts as well.
I think we're past WoW O-Board level. I think the beta forums have reached a Diablo 3 O-Board level of terribleness. That's quite an achievement!
Edited, Aug 9th 2013 12:13pm by PhoenixOmbre
Nuit Midril - White Mage/Scholar on Ultros
Nuit the Insane! - Retired Druid on Sentinels.
Ombre - Retired Dragoon/bard on Phoenix.
Hyrist wrote:
Sorry, Shadow. But I can't agree with you this time.
What's worse, is that the administration cannot take such criticism in stride, and even have a ToU clause against it. It's a self depreciating process that has no solution other than to wait it out and hope the worst of the bunch leave when they can't hang out in the forums for free - and it's then where I start to fear for communities such as Zam, FFXIV-Roleplayers, and the like as that's where people will go next to expunge their vitriol.
What's worse, is that the administration cannot take such criticism in stride, and even have a ToU clause against it. It's a self depreciating process that has no solution other than to wait it out and hope the worst of the bunch leave when they can't hang out in the forums for free - and it's then where I start to fear for communities such as Zam, FFXIV-Roleplayers, and the like as that's where people will go next to expunge their vitriol.
This does concern me if you're right. I guess I don't understand the appeal of trolling forums for games I won't be playing. I waste too much time as it is on the ZAM forums when I have more pressing concerns in real life. So how about if I amend my response to just try to be civil about warning others. The satire and finger pointing isn't necessary to warns others.
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