PvP: The Motivation Joo Need!Follow

Using words like 'raped' is generally why many people dislike pvp.
Understand that the Final Fantasy series is for the most part PvE first. There are plenty of good pvp games on the market. FFXIV doesn't need to go out of its way to cater to that segment of gamers. I understand that FFXIV will have a coliseum of sorts and the 'frontline' thing in the future, but many people simply dislike pvp in PvE games. It's impossible for a gaming company to cater to every segment of the playerbase. I'll use GW2 as an example.
GW2 has arena-type battles, RvR-type content, and PvE content. Would anyone say they did any of them spectacularly? Overall I like the game, but I feel like they just bit off too much. It's impossible to keep everyone happy with the amount of content they need to provide for all game types.
I'd hate to see the FFXIV devs get bogged down making content for a minority of the playerbase. Like you said, maybe 1% of people played ballista in FFXI, so why waste time on it. I'd rather them spend all their time making PvE as awesome as possible and not water their product down by trying to cater to too many different kinds of players.

Ballista was terrible. If they don't speed up and elaborate on combat in ARR, PvP will be terrible in this game too.

PvP for whatever reason seems to bring the worst out of people in my experience. The amount of name calling and looking down on others that happen in PvP just doesn't happen elsewhere. Every PvP match that ends in a loss has someone going, "You guys are all terrible" or "What a bunch of baddies". People seem to take PvP way too seriously and are always quick to blame.

Plus, I've never been a fan of PvP in MMO's. Its not really PvP, its basically PvE with other people. If PvP didn't have PvP gear, it might be more interesting. I'm just not a fan of people just hitting the level cap being balanced gear wise and then there is a mad rush to unbalance everything with gear. Then the people who hit 50 a month later are constantly playing catch up while getting dominated by better geared players. Its a struggle to try and get to balanced gear again. And thus, PvP devolves into a grind for gear more so than actual PvP. People join and quit games solely based on what would be the most efficient way to get gear.

And then there is the constant cry for class balance. Very few people ever accept just losing. Its always because someone is playing an overpowered class or has overpowered gear and such. Has there ever been a MMO where the majority of the people are satisfied with PvP?

This is the reason I love PvP! The general PvP chat can be hysterical if taken with a grain of salt. I can only imagine that the other side is going through the same thing. It's always the one or two guys who just complain about how bad everyone is. No, literally, apparently some players are so bad in at PvP that somehow it means they're failures in life, so much so that there's no words to describe them, therefore new words must be made up. Words such as 'terribad' which combines 2 words into one to show just how bad one is at PvP.

Where else can you find witty banter such as:
Player 1: hey priest y didn't you heal me, your terribad just go nd throw ur computer away than jump off a bridge.
Player 2: you're*, then*
Player 1: [expletive] noobs who cares what it is just [expletive] heal me your a [expletive][expletive]
Player 2: you're*
Player 1: [expletive] you youre healing sucks
Player 2: your*
...

and so on for about 15 minutes. while nothing really happens.

Negative, Ballista was incredible.

I agree with this statement 100%...but tthats EXACTLY why I love PvP so much! The word is 'passion'! PvP DEFINITELY brings out the worst in people, and for good reason. example: You're attacking an opponent whose been pestering you 3/4s of the match. You've gotten him down to 3% hp, are about to land the killing blow when suddenly, one of his mages binds you, he runs away, and 2 more of his team mates show up and finish you off. The he comes back and kicks your body. Now would that bring out the best in you? No. You'd wanna follow him back home to his mog-house after the match. But thats the whole point!

PvP is 2% skill/ tech, 98% pure malice/revenge. And be honest..tell me the feeling you experienced when you SERIOUSLY wanted revenge for w/e reason...and got it. It was the best feeling in the world wasn't it? Thats what I love about PvP..its honest. Yes it brings out the worst in one, but even thats a means to an end. (ballista-wise, matches where you knew you had opponents on other team who hated you were always the most fun...kept you on your toes!)

The arguements that PvP forces one to gear-***** and makes play unbalanced are VERY true as well...but again, thats also my driving point...forced advancement. It has the biproduct of making you care about your gear and job significantly more (if you wanna win at least.) And until you make those changes, yes, you're gonna get raped. Yes, raped. Without apology. .....or breakfast the next morning. *shrugs* thats PvP.

Still, like I said, in all honesty, PvP isn't for everyone because, as pointed out, very true, NO ONE likes to get owned. I can remember many instances where 1st-timers (some with beautiful gear) showed up, got murdered, complained for an hour, then never showed up again. At the same time, there were those who, after finding their faces in the dirt the first 2 or 3 matches (more like 20-30 for me...), kept coming back, geared up, really learned the physics of their job, then started returning favors. (Thats why I'm being honest about the rape part, dispel the illusions ;x) Even so, yes, STILL try it out. Used to think PvP was a waste of time myself, til that 1st fateful match...

Seconded.

Ballista worked in FFXI for about 4 job combinations and everything else got pooped on. Cooldowns was a big part of the reason more things weren't viable. Don't even get me started on cast times...

Positioning and timing is important at all times in all PvP. More time to make those decisions does not make it more tactical, it just waters down the skill curve. I don't think PvP in ARR will be nearly as bad as it was in FFXI, but the speed of it has nothing to do with "tactics". It's not an RTS.

Meh, I've played PvP in 6 or 7 different mmos, with all variations of combat speed, and that to me had a very minimal effect on how good or bad the PvP was. It was the design of the encounters and abilities that always made me like or dislike PvP in a game. And by tactics, I mean that you really have to think about what skills to use that will maximize your effectiveness, because if combat is a bit slower paced and you choose the wrong skill, you could wind up dead before you have a chance to recover. With many of the button mashers, PvP is paced quicker, which means if you mess up and use 1 wrong skill oftentimes you can recover easier, which was definitely the case in games like WoW or swtor. Conversely, in FFXI, one wrong move in PvP meant death almost every time. This is just from my experiences obviously.

Edited, Aug 13th 2013 1:46pm by BartelX

Each to their own and I do agree that this game needs to be designed to appeal to as many people as possible in order to stay live but personally I dont live PvP.

The common response to this sort of statement is "well if you dont like it, dont do it" but that fails to recognise the impact on PvE that including PvP has in the game.

Balancing jobs for PvP is a complex process. Balancing jobs for PvE is a complex process. Trying to do both simultaneously is nigh on impossible, this is why SE has suggested they will introduce PvP only skills - to avoid the damage to class balance in PvE. The reality of course is that unless SE succeed where everyone else has failed they will only do a good job with one and I just hope that is PvE.

I see your point, and I don't disagree with you. I played PvP pretty exclusively for the last 6 months that I played swtor and indeed it was tactical. I guess I just meant that if it's a bit slower, yes you have more time to decide what to do, but it also means other people do as well, which means that each ability use means that much more since if you mess up, it becomes more noticeable (or it did in FFXI and lotro, which both had a bit slower combat). I know I can think of countless times in swtor where I'd mess up a rotation because I was trying to do 8 things at once, but I'd still be able to recover pretty easily because there was more room for error in certain situations. I guess that's also extremely class dependant, as some classes are just much better at getting out of danger than others.

Bottom line, I'm very curious to see how PvP will play out in ARR, and I do think it can be quite successful even at the current combat speed. Then again, who knows... there might be a lower GCD to accompany the different set of abilities in PvP. Or perhaps the PvP stat will increase the GCD so you will gradually build up the pace of combat. I actually think that would be a pretty stellar idea.