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tank shortage or heal shortage?Follow

#27 Aug 19 2013 at 5:41 PM Rating: Good
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I agree. As a new mrd last beta, I couldn't tell that I was supposed to be tank from my abilities. Fortunately it was only a leve and not a dungeon.
#28 Aug 19 2013 at 7:45 PM Rating: Good
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Maarg wrote:
I agree. As a new mrd last beta, I couldn't tell that I was supposed to be tank from my abilities. Fortunately it was only a leve and not a dungeon.

Your abilities in the tool tip say generates aggro on most of them
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#29 Aug 19 2013 at 7:50 PM Rating: Excellent
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Ehllfire wrote:
Maarg wrote:
I agree. As a new mrd last beta, I couldn't tell that I was supposed to be tank from my abilities. Fortunately it was only a leve and not a dungeon.

Your abilities in the tool tip say generates aggro on most of them


I think the large axe is just generally misleading it screams DMG dealer
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#30 Aug 19 2013 at 7:58 PM Rating: Good
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S3ntin3L wrote:
Ehllfire wrote:
Maarg wrote:
I agree. As a new mrd last beta, I couldn't tell that I was supposed to be tank from my abilities. Fortunately it was only a leve and not a dungeon.

Your abilities in the tool tip say generates aggro on most of them


I think the large axe is just generally misleading it screams DMG dealer


Yea, my wife thinks it's a DRK. Understandable when you look at the AF(?) armor in the character build screen.

Anyway, as Gladiator I got into dungeons within 30 seconds each time I registered. If I walked anywhere near one of the three dungeons, I would start getting invites/tells.
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#31 Aug 19 2013 at 8:23 PM Rating: Excellent
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PyrielDD wrote:
That was my point I had a Marauder who didn't try to tank at all he was trying to dps and the enemies were going everywhere. People need to know the role they are playing and do it. I've also seen a Conjurer forget to heal cause they got to into dpsing.


I've heard, elsewhere, that if you're CNJ you're not doing your job if you aren't ALSO DPSing. I suspect that people are talking out of their *** when they say this. (Basing my opinion on P3 dungeons) I didn't have time to stop and DPS during dungeons, except for maybe as the next wave started.. So asking you guys, is a CNJ not doing their job if they aren't also DPSing? (Not talking about doing 1 stone, 1 aero every so often to make sure enfeebles are on.)
#32 Aug 19 2013 at 8:29 PM Rating: Excellent
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Melody wrote:
PyrielDD wrote:
That was my point I had a Marauder who didn't try to tank at all he was trying to dps and the enemies were going everywhere. People need to know the role they are playing and do it. I've also seen a Conjurer forget to heal cause they got to into dpsing.


I've heard, elsewhere, that if you're CNJ you're not doing your job if you aren't ALSO DPSing. I suspect that people are talking out of their *** when they say this. (Basing my opinion on P3 dungeons) I didn't have time to stop and DPS during dungeons, except for maybe as the next wave started.. So asking you guys, is a CNJ not doing their job if they aren't also DPSing? (Not talking about doing 1 stone, 1 aero every so often to make sure enfeebles are on.)


My opinion on the matter is that CNJ shouldn't have to dps, but hopefully they have enough down time that they can from time to time. Spamming cure can't be fun all the time having the chance to smack something upside the head with stone has got to help the tedium.
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#33 Aug 19 2013 at 8:30 PM Rating: Excellent
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Melody wrote:


I've heard, elsewhere, that if you're CNJ you're not doing your job if you aren't ALSO DPSing. I suspect that people are talking out of their *** when they say this. (Basing my opinion on P3 dungeons) I didn't have time to stop and DPS during dungeons, except for maybe as the next wave started.. So asking you guys, is a CNJ not doing their job if they aren't also DPSing? (Not talking about doing 1 stone, 1 aero every so often to make sure enfeebles are on.)


As a career mage in these games, I'd say it depends on the situation. I've seen fights where the healer was struggling just to heal. Other times the healer was standing there doing nothing. You don't want to cast an Aero if the tank is taking a beating and the brief recast for the casting kills him. I don't see nothing wrong with casting a Dps spell if mp is good and the tank is fine. The priorities must be maintained before e-peen.

I think Virus from ARN abilities is a great debuff that all healers should be using since it will help the tank. The same way Flash by a WHM helped a tank in FFXI.



Edited, Aug 19th 2013 9:32pm by ShadowedgeFFXI
#34 Aug 19 2013 at 8:38 PM Rating: Excellent
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Cool, cool. Yeah.. It's been a few years since I played an MMO of any sort, but was pretty solid on WHM and BRD on XI. I know there's more chance to toss in a spell or two, or even three.. but I thought it was ridiculous when someone suggested that CNJ wasn't doing their job if they weren't also DPS. And it obviously depends on the tank.. There were some really squishy ones during P3.. Am excited to see what it's like once we go live. (As said in another thread, we intentionally did not do the dungeons this phase.)
#35 Aug 19 2013 at 8:39 PM Rating: Excellent
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ShadowedgeFFXI wrote:
Melody wrote:


I've heard, elsewhere, that if you're CNJ you're not doing your job if you aren't ALSO DPSing. I suspect that people are talking out of their *** when they say this. (Basing my opinion on P3 dungeons) I didn't have time to stop and DPS during dungeons, except for maybe as the next wave started.. So asking you guys, is a CNJ not doing their job if they aren't also DPSing? (Not talking about doing 1 stone, 1 aero every so often to make sure enfeebles are on.)


As a career mage in these games, I'd say it depends on the situation. I've seen fights where the healer was struggling just to heal. Other times the healer was standing there doing nothing. You don't want to cast an Aero if the tank is taking a beating and the brief recast for the casting kills him. I don't see nothing wrong with casting a Dps spell if mp is good and the tank is fine. The priorities must be maintained before e-peen.

I think Virus from ARN abilities is a great debuff that all healers should be using since it will help the tank. The same way Flash by a WHM helped a tank in FFXI.



Edited, Aug 19th 2013 9:32pm by ShadowedgeFFXI


With them doubling the potency of cure, throwing spells out as a CNJ is a lot more manageable now. MY big issue with it though is that in the couple Guildhests and SAS I ran on my CNJ I was pulling threat simply from healing. If I threw out my DPS rotation I would have tanked the entire dungeon.
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#36 Aug 20 2013 at 5:24 AM Rating: Excellent
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On the Cnj dpsing during dungeons ... it all depends on the group. If the tank holds aggro and the DPS focus one mob at a time than I can usually help DPS . If the tank has things running about and the dps don't focus I'm busy keeping them and me alive.

Also the cnj needs to know the fights . Does this boss have adds? Than usually I won't dps to hard in case I need to heal more( don't wanna run out ta mana). If your just standing there doing nadda while the tank and DPS do there jobs than yea your doing something wrong even a simple aero. would be helpful if you have nothing else to do.

Edited, Aug 20th 2013 7:26am by silverhope
#37 Aug 20 2013 at 7:28 AM Rating: Good
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Well with the error I didn't get to do any but Tesee got to ifrit. She had to wait around a 1/2 hour on most.
Yea I think there is a shortage of both.

Edited, Aug 20th 2013 9:28am by Nashred
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#38 Aug 20 2013 at 7:36 AM Rating: Good
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ShadowedgeFFXI wrote:
Melody wrote:


I've heard, elsewhere, that if you're CNJ you're not doing your job if you aren't ALSO DPSing. I suspect that people are talking out of their *** when they say this. (Basing my opinion on P3 dungeons) I didn't have time to stop and DPS during dungeons, except for maybe as the next wave started.. So asking you guys, is a CNJ not doing their job if they aren't also DPSing? (Not talking about doing 1 stone, 1 aero every so often to make sure enfeebles are on.)


As a career mage in these games, I'd say it depends on the situation. I've seen fights where the healer was struggling just to heal. Other times the healer was standing there doing nothing. You don't want to cast an Aero if the tank is taking a beating and the brief recast for the casting kills him. I don't see nothing wrong with casting a Dps spell if mp is good and the tank is fine. The priorities must be maintained before e-peen.

I think Virus from ARN abilities is a great debuff that all healers should be using since it will help the tank. The same way Flash by a WHM helped a tank in FFXI.



Edited, Aug 19th 2013 9:32pm by ShadowedgeFFXI


I was a career WHM in FFXI.. The only problem is with a fight you might be doing nothing and all of a sudden it get crazy at the end. You start doing damage spells you could run out of mana at the end. The other issue is heals create a lot of hate. You dont want to generate even more hate by throwing damage spells on.. also whm spells do real little damage, a enfeebling spell would be better or dia... My point is allot of fights get tuff right at the end and you want to be prepared.

Edited, Aug 20th 2013 9:36am by Nashred
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#39 Aug 20 2013 at 11:05 AM Rating: Excellent
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Nashred wrote:
ShadowedgeFFXI wrote:
Melody wrote:


I've heard, elsewhere, that if you're CNJ you're not doing your job if you aren't ALSO DPSing. I suspect that people are talking out of their *** when they say this. (Basing my opinion on P3 dungeons) I didn't have time to stop and DPS during dungeons, except for maybe as the next wave started.. So asking you guys, is a CNJ not doing their job if they aren't also DPSing? (Not talking about doing 1 stone, 1 aero every so often to make sure enfeebles are on.)


As a career mage in these games, I'd say it depends on the situation. I've seen fights where the healer was struggling just to heal. Other times the healer was standing there doing nothing. You don't want to cast an Aero if the tank is taking a beating and the brief recast for the casting kills him. I don't see nothing wrong with casting a Dps spell if mp is good and the tank is fine. The priorities must be maintained before e-peen.

I think Virus from ARN abilities is a great debuff that all healers should be using since it will help the tank. The same way Flash by a WHM helped a tank in FFXI.



Edited, Aug 19th 2013 9:32pm by ShadowedgeFFXI


I was a career WHM in FFXI.. The only problem is with a fight you might be doing nothing and all of a sudden it get crazy at the end. You start doing damage spells you could run out of mana at the end. The other issue is heals create a lot of hate. You dont want to generate even more hate by throwing damage spells on.. also whm spells do real little damage, a enfeebling spell would be better or dia... My point is allot of fights get tuff right at the end and you want to be prepared.

Edited, Aug 20th 2013 9:36am by Nashred


Career OCD WHM and in agreement with Nash.

Triage. Pure and simple. (the following assumes the peak of the Bell curve, not the extreme end of gear and experience)

With a group that keeps the hate on the person best able to absorb the damage, a Healer will have a wealth of MP, Proper macros keeping you on the Tank's target allow you to sneak an Aero in here and there. If you don't have the macros, and you DOT the slept mob on accident that then chases you around, interrupting your casts while the tank gets hate back... you get the "What the hell were you doing?" talk.

With Bosses and that same party, There is the chance of larger hits, but if there isn't a crowd, sneaking Aero and even the odd Stone in isn't a bad idea. NOT massive, macroed streams of damage... Why? because when you get complacent, cocky, whatever you want to call it. You'll be stuck in a cast while the tank dips into the red. and then you get the " What the hell were you doing?" talk.

There was a cutscene on the climb for CNJWith the Sorrowful healer still carrying around the severed head of the tank...

We're damned if we do our jobs because someone wants more, Damned if we don't because everybody dies. I take losing a member during combat very personally, and I'll take the former over the latter.
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#40 Aug 20 2013 at 3:01 PM Rating: Excellent
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I ran Sastasha as a THM with 2 LNC and and ACN with Carby tanking the whole way and ACN healing. You have to learn as a DPS in those situations to tone down your attacks a little so you don't get hate. I can't imagine that we would be able to do that post-Ifrit.
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