So games that fail will always go F2P, unless they don't.
Got it.
Edited, Sep 19th 2013 4:39pm by Catwho
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I really do wonder if gamers have just had enough of the F2P show. The ocean of F2P games we've seen are solid enough at launch, but there's never any substance with expansion content, because developers are more focused on monetizing cash shops.
And GW2, for the sake of this discussion, is F2P. The reason people cry about P2P isn't because of paying for the software, they cry rivers over having to pay subscription fees.
GW2 was F2P/B2P right off the bat... no chance at real, in-depth content. People like me played the core of the game, then stopped, because there was no reason to keep playing. I want real content for progression, not stuff from a cash shop.
I'm so glad FFXIV is P2P, and I'm so glad the dev team is already working hard on an expansion!
And GW2, for the sake of this discussion, is F2P. The reason people cry about P2P isn't because of paying for the software, they cry rivers over having to pay subscription fees.
GW2 was F2P/B2P right off the bat... no chance at real, in-depth content. People like me played the core of the game, then stopped, because there was no reason to keep playing. I want real content for progression, not stuff from a cash shop.
I'm so glad FFXIV is P2P, and I'm so glad the dev team is already working hard on an expansion!
Thayos Redblade
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Jormungandr
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#54REDACTED,
Posted: Sep 19 2013 at 3:36 PM, Rating: Sub-Default, (Expand Post) Something you can always bet on with a fanboy, no matter what they say they will change their stance based on what the company does.
I looked on metacritic for the FFXIV score and I see a 49. I get the feeling that anyone who searches for it that doesn't type out the full 'A Realm Reborn' title will see that 
Rinsui wrote:
Only hips + boobs all day and hips + boobs all over my icecream
HaibaneRenmei wrote:
30 bucks is almost free
cocodojo wrote:
Its personal preference and all, but yes we need to educate WoW players that this is OUR game, these are Characters and not Toons. Time to beat that into them one at a time.
Catwho wrote:
If they thought the game could be profitable F2P, they could have renegotiated the contract for that purpose.
They didn't.
They didn't.
Isnt games workshop putting out a warhammer 40k mmo? This could be more on the lines that GW wasnt happy with what mythic/bioware/ea did with the game.
Quote:
It's a game that cost as much as this did will go f2p if they can't keep enough players to be profitable. They need a heck of a lot more players than XI did.
Cool.. so then how much did XIV cost? ARR? How much overhead is there for bills and staff? How much do they need to make per year in order to break even? To show a profit? How much per year do they need in order to put out their first expansion on time?
I'm glad we have someone like you around that knows all that so we can have some real data instead of just blind guesswork. That's super helpful. Cheers, sir.
svlyons wrote:
If random outcomes aren't acceptable to you, then don't play with random people.
Quote:
It's not F2P just because you say it is, by your logic I can claim FFXIV is F2P since I won't be subscribing and just got my 30 days free out of it.
This is the silliest thing you've said yet!
You obviously didn't play GW2 or pay any attention to the lead-up of that game, either. I bet you don't even know what the game's biggest problems were!
Thayos Redblade
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Jormungandr
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FilthMcNasty wrote:
I looked on metacritic for the FFXIV score and I see a 49. I get the feeling that anyone who searches for it that doesn't type out the full 'A Realm Reborn' title will see that
Oh shi-
That...that's interesting XD. Someone who's wondering what all the fuss is about might run into that and be like "wait, THIS is the game that everyone says is the hot thing these days?" I would hope people would read a little more in depth however, and realize they're looking at a product from 3 years ago.
Arcari wrote:
FilthMcNasty wrote:
I looked on metacritic for the FFXIV score and I see a 49. I get the feeling that anyone who searches for it that doesn't type out the full 'A Realm Reborn' title will see that
Oh shi-
That...that's interesting XD. Someone who's wondering what all the fuss is about might run into that and be like "wait, THIS is the game that everyone says is the hot thing these days?" I would hope people would read a little more in depth however, and realize they're looking at a product from 3 years ago.
Yeah, if they were trying to market it as a new game they should have changed the name
Rinsui wrote:
Only hips + boobs all day and hips + boobs all over my icecream
HaibaneRenmei wrote:
30 bucks is almost free
cocodojo wrote:
Its personal preference and all, but yes we need to educate WoW players that this is OUR game, these are Characters and not Toons. Time to beat that into them one at a time.
Arcari wrote:
FilthMcNasty wrote:
I looked on metacritic for the FFXIV score and I see a 49. I get the feeling that anyone who searches for it that doesn't type out the full 'A Realm Reborn' title will see that
Oh shi-
That...that's interesting XD. Someone who's wondering what all the fuss is about might run into that and be like "wait, THIS is the game that everyone says is the hot thing these days?" I would hope people would read a little more in depth however, and realize they're looking at a product from 3 years ago.
MMorpg.com still has ARR listed with 1.0's score, 5.1/10
That's pretty funny, and sad, and reflective of those Web sites.
Thayos Redblade
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Hyperion
Jormungandr
Hyperion
Thayos wrote:
That's pretty funny, and sad, and reflective of those Web sites.
Most people here try to distance 2.0 from 1.0 and are always calling it new. It's actually fitting that they keep them separate. If there were no new metacritic page for XIV your post here would probably have said "65/100 Metascore on Metacritic".
Edited, Sep 19th 2013 10:44pm by FilthMcNasty
Rinsui wrote:
Only hips + boobs all day and hips + boobs all over my icecream
HaibaneRenmei wrote:
30 bucks is almost free
cocodojo wrote:
Its personal preference and all, but yes we need to educate WoW players that this is OUR game, these are Characters and not Toons. Time to beat that into them one at a time.
Quote:
Most people here try to distance 2.0 from 1.0 and are always calling it new. It's actually fitting that they keep them separate. If there were no new metacritic page for XIV your post here would probably have said "65/100 Metascore on Metacritic".
A Realm Reborn is new. It's basically a sequel in which players of the original version got to transfer over their character data.
The game most certainly deserves a separate meta ranking... to lump it together with the old one would be very arbitrary, considering they are totally different games from the core out.
Thayos Redblade
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Jormungandr
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Nice spin man. Actually it's a 3 year old game that was so bad they completely borrowed(read: ripped) ideas from MMOs that worked and 're-released' it.
Rinsui wrote:
Only hips + boobs all day and hips + boobs all over my icecream
HaibaneRenmei wrote:
30 bucks is almost free
cocodojo wrote:
Its personal preference and all, but yes we need to educate WoW players that this is OUR game, these are Characters and not Toons. Time to beat that into them one at a time.
FilthMcNasty wrote:
Nice spin man. Actually it's a 3 year old game that was so bad they completely borrowed(read: ripped) ideas from MMOs that worked and 're-released' it.
Look, I'm as resentful about certain parts of ARR as the next borderline-obsessed love/hate SE fanboi, but surely any game that undergoes such an extensive overhaul warrants a different page and subtitle.
The game failed. Porducers switched. It ran for another year. It totally shut down; servers offline. Another year passed. Then it underwent an extensive marketing campaign, and everything from the zones to the story changed. Instances were added; the UI changed; the economy systems were scrapped. It really is quite different from the product of three years ago. The old reviews no longer apply, not at all. Sometimes you really can be just plain McNasty.
Edited, Sep 19th 2013 11:35pm by KaneKitty
KaneKitty wrote:
Look, I'm as resentful about certain parts of ARR as the next borderline-obsessed love/hate SE fanboi, but surely any game that undergoes such an extensive overhaul warrants a different page and subtitle.
Not trying to be mean, just calling it what it is. I'd call it new myself were it not for the fact that almost everything 'new' about it was taken from something old. It's got a lot of room to grow like anything that makes as many changes as it has and I agree that it deserves a fresh start in terms of how it is reviewed. Calling it new is a bit of a stretch though. Let's call it 'updated'. It's taken a while, but it's about where it should have been back then.
Rinsui wrote:
Only hips + boobs all day and hips + boobs all over my icecream
HaibaneRenmei wrote:
30 bucks is almost free
cocodojo wrote:
Its personal preference and all, but yes we need to educate WoW players that this is OUR game, these are Characters and not Toons. Time to beat that into them one at a time.
No, it's definitely new.
They didn't even take the old game and fix it... they completely wiped the slate clean and started fresh.
To say it's an "update" is even more off base, because the old game wasn't updated... it was completely scrapped. Had they legitimately updated the old game into ARR, then you'd be right, that would be an update (my apologies for sounding like Capt. Obvious, but just not sure how else to explain it).
Instead, they scrapped 1.x and built an entirely new game from the ground up, hence why it is a new game.
Here are the facts:
If you just build on to what you had previously, then your product is "updated." Version 1.2x was updated.
If you scrap something and start over again from scratch, then your product is "new." ARR is new.
Now, let's see you spin that!
Edited, Sep 19th 2013 9:56pm by Thayos
They didn't even take the old game and fix it... they completely wiped the slate clean and started fresh.
To say it's an "update" is even more off base, because the old game wasn't updated... it was completely scrapped. Had they legitimately updated the old game into ARR, then you'd be right, that would be an update (my apologies for sounding like Capt. Obvious, but just not sure how else to explain it).
Instead, they scrapped 1.x and built an entirely new game from the ground up, hence why it is a new game.
Here are the facts:
If you just build on to what you had previously, then your product is "updated." Version 1.2x was updated.
If you scrap something and start over again from scratch, then your product is "new." ARR is new.
Now, let's see you spin that!
Edited, Sep 19th 2013 9:56pm by Thayos
Thayos Redblade
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Jormungandr
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Thayos wrote:
If you scrap something and start over again from scratch
His Excellency Aethien wrote:
Almalieque wrote:
If no one debated with me, then I wouldn't post here anymore.
gbaji wrote:
I'm not getting my news from anywhere Joph.
By from scratch, I mean you knock down the house, dig out the foundation, and rebuild everything all over again.
The new game echoes some concepts of the old game, such as the armory system and guild leves, but it's all built from scratch. It's all new. Everything under the hood is different, and everything about how the game plays is different.
As I said earlier, ARR is essentially a sequel of Version 1.x, much like Final Fantasy XIII-2 was a sequel of XIII. XIII-2 borrowed concepts from XIII, such as the battle system, but it was/is a completely separate game. In fact, from a technology standpoint, ARR is probably more different than 1.x than XIII-2 is from XIII.
The decision to keep ARR as part of FFXIV was likely a marketing decision. Calling it FFXIV-2, or FFXV, would have allowed the title of XIV to be known as a complete failure. Instead, 10 years from now, the company and its fans will be able to look back on #XIV with a bit of pride.
The new game echoes some concepts of the old game, such as the armory system and guild leves, but it's all built from scratch. It's all new. Everything under the hood is different, and everything about how the game plays is different.
As I said earlier, ARR is essentially a sequel of Version 1.x, much like Final Fantasy XIII-2 was a sequel of XIII. XIII-2 borrowed concepts from XIII, such as the battle system, but it was/is a completely separate game. In fact, from a technology standpoint, ARR is probably more different than 1.x than XIII-2 is from XIII.
The decision to keep ARR as part of FFXIV was likely a marketing decision. Calling it FFXIV-2, or FFXV, would have allowed the title of XIV to be known as a complete failure. Instead, 10 years from now, the company and its fans will be able to look back on #XIV with a bit of pride.
Thayos Redblade
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Jormungandr
Hyperion
Archmage Callinon wrote:
Quote:
Reviews come out moment one of a game's launch. If the game isnt stable at launch it will get justifiably bad reviews. Its not the reviewers fault, but SE's.
Most reviewers at this point realize that it takes longer than that to review an MMO effectively.
This is pretty accurate.
Do you really think people will give a crap about server issues if we continue on this route for the next year or so? No. When you go back to read these reviews of the game a year or two out, having a rough launch is not relevant at all.
"Wow! FFXIV had server issues a week after its launch. I think I'm not going to play it now." -An alternate version of you, 2 years in the future who decided not to play FF14 initially
The first thing a reviewer of any MMO should do is repeat what the acronym MMO stands for before beginning the review:
M - Massively; as in a large quantity
M - Multiplayer; as in this isn't a game you plop in your console or install on your desktop and play by yourself
O - Online; as in it requires you to be online to play and relies heavily on servers
If the problems persisted or comes back, then reviewers may criticize all they want. It's a legitimate issue if it persists for longer than 0.01% of a MMO's lifetime. In case you can't do math like many reviewers who comment on irrelevant features, 11 has lasted 11+ years = 4015 days excluding leap years out of 7. WoW would be 0.02%.
Thayos wrote:
By from scratch, I mean you knock down the house, dig out the foundation, and rebuild everything all over again.
That's not what happened. The old story remained a suppressed memory and made way for the new. The graphics engine stayed pretty close to the same, but was watered down to accommodate PS3 and PC users who didn't buy their rig from aliens. The zones are the same name and feel minus the copy pasta. Guildleves are unchanged. FATEs, DF and most other similar game mechanics(including most of the battle system mechanics) are new to XIV, but ripped almost directly from other games. I'll give you that the UI was scrapped, but that alone isn't enough to make the game new(though it feels new when you rid yourself of 30 year old interface).
No spin needed here. Clearly the same game with updated mechanics to make it a more modern feeling MMO.
Rinsui wrote:
Only hips + boobs all day and hips + boobs all over my icecream
HaibaneRenmei wrote:
30 bucks is almost free
cocodojo wrote:
Its personal preference and all, but yes we need to educate WoW players that this is OUR game, these are Characters and not Toons. Time to beat that into them one at a time.
Actually that is what happened.
Graphics engine is all new. Server structure is all new. Maps are all new. Battle system is all new. Way the jobs play is all new. Questing system is all new. Story is all post-calamity. Only small bits of story were reused, in the form of quest lines for getting AF gear.
This is an all new game, built from the ground up. Even more different than fxiii and fxiii-2.
Graphics engine is all new. Server structure is all new. Maps are all new. Battle system is all new. Way the jobs play is all new. Questing system is all new. Story is all post-calamity. Only small bits of story were reused, in the form of quest lines for getting AF gear.
This is an all new game, built from the ground up. Even more different than fxiii and fxiii-2.
Thayos Redblade
Jormungandr
Hyperion
Jormungandr
Hyperion
Catwho wrote:
Isnt games workshop putting out a warhammer 40k mmo? This could be more on the lines that GW wasnt happy with what mythic/bioware/ea did with the game.
Wasn't this Torpedo'd along with THQ?
#75REDACTED,
Posted: Sep 20 2013 at 2:58 AM, Rating: Sub-Default, (Expand Post) It doens't really matter if you want to call it a remake, a fully new game or a cataclysm type expansion.
Thayos wrote:
Actually that is what happened.
Graphics engine is all new. Server structure is all new. Maps are all new. Battle system is all new. Way the jobs play is all new. Questing system is all new. Story is all post-calamity. Only small bits of story were reused, in the form of quest lines for getting AF gear.
Graphics engine is all new. Server structure is all new. Maps are all new. Battle system is all new. Way the jobs play is all new. Questing system is all new. Story is all post-calamity. Only small bits of story were reused, in the form of quest lines for getting AF gear.
Brainwash complete.
Rinsui wrote:
Only hips + boobs all day and hips + boobs all over my icecream
HaibaneRenmei wrote:
30 bucks is almost free
cocodojo wrote:
Its personal preference and all, but yes we need to educate WoW players that this is OUR game, these are Characters and not Toons. Time to beat that into them one at a time.
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