IS THIS the current state of mmo's too?Follow

the difference between CoP pre nerf and titan hard mode is although he was hard ther was never a time where I felt like "we cant/wont do this... I could always see the light at the end of the tunnel or the carrot on eh stick dangling in front of me... I just had to reach out and grab it." whereas CoP was like a deep dark pit of despair that you knew/thought you had no way of escape... and it just made you feel wonderful when you accomplished the "impossible". i.e Id compare CoP too a group of untrained farmers fighting a group of battle hardened well trained marines... theres no way the farms would/should win in that situation.... so imagine how they musta felt if they actually DId pull it off? Titian never felt that way

Titan for example can easily be beaten by 5 ppl who know what theyre doing while the other 3 leech (thus titan is not really hard) CoP on the other hand, you could have 2-3 ppl in the party whos done the fight and won 100+ times thus they know what theyre doing... but guess what? Unless EVERYBODY in that party brought their A game there was no way you were gonna win despite having experienced p[layers on your team. THAT is the difference between Titan and CoP

As someone who beat CoP pre-nerf; if by "bring their A game" you mean "zerg the weakest mob, wipe, reraise, repeat" then yes, everyone had to "bring their A game."

Edited, Dec 11th 2013 6:18pm by DomfranciscoOfIfrit

I agree...










Edited, Dec 11th 2013 12:50pm by Nashred

I think Everquest Next will be more to your liking Duo. Most content will be open world, there will be a mix of contested content, travelling will not be instant, nights will be dark and dangerous etc. I think for anyone who misses the older type of MMOs Everquest Next will be right up their ally with old ideas mixed in with new ones.

Now if you want exactly the level of time consuming content older games had you will probably be dissapointed, but I think it will be a step (probably quite a big one compared to games like ARR) in the direction a lot of people have been missing lately.

Personally I am happy because I think there has been a lack of those types of games in the years since WoW and I am all for a wider span of options for gamers.

Edited, Dec 11th 2013 1:37pm by Belcrono

I kind of enjoy crafting for the sake of itself. There is something really satisfactory about pinning down the right rotation to get consistent high quality items. I was churning out HQ apple pies last night in Quarrymill, cheering every time it worked and I was about 80% chance of hitting HQ.

Same thing with fishing. It's relaxing.

And no, "most" people are not at endgame. I'd say maybe half the player base has at least one battle class at 50, and not all of those are going to be end gamers. I certainly have no desire to get into the rate race of endgame when all I want to do is log on and have fun for an hour or two before I go sleep.

You said so much in only two paragraphs,, LOL.

Anyway I do not think they are looking at free to play. I talked to a friend and he said with he start up of FFXIV allot of people have left FFXI. Think they are just trying to get people to play it. They have made their money there, but who knows maybe you are right.

FFXI had great stuff but in the end was becoming mediocre. I really was looking to move on.. Like I said 0-50 I had a lot of fun with FFXIV it was new and refreshing. How do you hold people long term is the real question?.. The more I play the more I start to see more problems with FFXIV.. FFXI had allot of good and should not be overlooked. Why not draw form what was successful from the other game.. Why not draw those people over that are still playing.. Cheaper to run one game vs two. I dont want this to be the exact same game either. Also if they would have done FFXI all over I would not want it to be the exact same game either. There is something about end game so far that just puts a bad taste in my mouth. I know allot of others are saying the same thing. This game was supposed to be more casual and to me it is not much more casual. Hopefully the patch solves some of that and it sounds like it will.. It will give people a better chance at tombs, that dont want to run dungeons all the time.

Example that happened last night and one of the reasons I have a bad taste in my mouth.. We ran WP 3 times for tombs last night.. The second round we had 4 different tanks. We had a DPS that had regular AF gear on. We could not bring down the second boss. The tank goes to the DD I think it is a gear check issue with you.. The dps goes I thought you ran this for Tombs to get better gear. Well the tank left. New tank comes in and someone dies in the hallway so he leaves. We had 4 tanks..I stayed and felt bad for the dude.. Really this is casual, you dont have good gear people dont want to play with you, you cant do a speed run tanks drop out. Last night My girlfriend accidentally agroed some mobs trying to avoid the giant tomberry in there and this dude start calling here a newbie and left, she felt so bad. You dont play a game to feel bad. If these isolated cases it would be different but it happens everyday. Were casual with this game way more than FFXI.. But rarely did I see people get treated like that in FFXI. We are pretty much your average player trying to make it through end game, we didn't rush to get there and enjoyed the story.. .. This game promotes this behavior. In FFXI the good players took pride in helping those coming up. You know everyone blames everyone else. Well the next rounds we ran in less than 30 min each so who were the bad people in these runs?

Another thing is all these people having to buy titan runs.. Some of them are really good players but they have to buy a titan run just to get a relic. something is wrong with a game that is that frustrating just to complete a titan run that people are willing to spend gil to beat it. You know what that makes me think, what chance do I have.. In FFXI I never felt like that, I felt eventually with time I would.. Well if they dont give another path...

I agree with you, I dont want my life to revolve around a game like it did around FFXI but I at least want that feeling of excitement about getting on the game. I remember I couldn't wait to get out of work to come and explore FFXI and I had that feeling for years. I loved researching and making to do lists etc. . I had somewhat that feeling in the beginning FFXIV but I dont have that pull and sometimes it almost feels like a chore now and the game is only a few months old. I know the game is new and there is more content coming but how fast will we get through this new content. Also content needs to be new and exciting. Some of it is more rehashed primal fight which I find more frustrating than hard.

Again keeping players is the hard part and keeping it so new players come into the game. New and different is the key. FFXI real problem was bring in new blood. If you are not bring in new players it is a slow death.. you have to provide a path for new players to catch up.. It sound like they may have a path to help with this too..

One of the biggest pluses I do like about FFXIV is I dont need a wiki for everything I do like crafting recipes..








Edited, Dec 12th 2013 12:03pm by Nashred

Edited, Dec 12th 2013 12:13pm by Nashred

Nope!

Shadow Lord fight was a content patch. Northern areas were not available upon release.

I was having the same issue. I was a MNK in af trying to do Wanderer's Palace for the first time and they let out a sigh. When we went to run it the tank would constantly die and from there they spent 30 minutes ******** about each other's gear. So that party ended before it really began and the very next run I qued for, the same issue with the tank and healer complaining about one another happened. I can't get anything done because everyone just wants to ***** and complain about each other. So I decided to just wait until my FC got to endgame and run with them and in the meantime level other classes and jobs, but it's taking so long that I'm worried that by the time I'm able to actually run WP, AK or Coil regularly, a new Patch or expansion will come out voiding the current gear, in which I'd have to start all over again. I mean what is it about this game that is creating such animosity and eliticism?

Edited, Dec 12th 2013 12:44pm by Niklz

It's great to be the tank because I don't have to worry about the tank leaving. I sure find AK to be smoother run because, for whatever reason, the Giant Tonberry in WP just makes people panic and flub in their pants.

So more than once now I get a party where 3/4 of the party are in fresh AF, maybe 1 or 2 pieces of DL. Sometimes I even run into people who have only run AK a handful of times. For some reason, these are the parties that are the most rewarding.

The DRG gets killed by the giant AoE from the first boss? Ok, let's try again. The WHM gets Repelled off the Demon Wall? Whatever. The BLM wipes the party by letting the Ball of Death drop right in the middle of the party on the final boss? It's cool. Live and learn.

In every case these players have learned from their mistakes, and we go on to finish the run. Granted some of these runs take 60+ minutes, but what am I in a hurry for? Nothing. Coil to reset next week? The patch to release? Nope. No hurry at all.

It is extra fun to help these players struggle up through those first few runs and know that they are having a much better time because the whole party is being supportive. The victories with these parties involve dancing and cheering and smiley emotes.

I'll take a newbie run over a silent speed run with veterans any day.

This is how I look at things as well, and oddly enough, I usually play tanks in MMOs. I'm only level 27 right now, and I make sure to let my party members know that this is my first time running whatever dungeon we're doing. If they have a problem with that, they can leave before we start and I promise my wait to replace them will be longer than their wait to replace me.

For the last 5 or 6 years I played WoW, I was a paladin tank. I was never on the cutting edge of raiding, and I never got to see all of the content. But I also had no problem learning the fights and then teaching the next wave of level-capped characters how to do them. There's something to be said for seeing a group that you put on your back and carried through the instance, finally click all together and the boss goes down.

Edited, Dec 12th 2013 3:48pm by Bigdaddyjug

It would be great if the first expansion had a story comparable to Promathia, but keep the mechanics and gimmicks out! Please keep the gated- area concept far away from XIV. Same for Snoll Tzar battles and other fights that require specific jobs to complete effectively. The absolute LAST thing XIV needs is anything that encourages job discrimination.

I think a decade is outside the statute of limitations on being forced to upgrade. XI isn't a resource hog and doesn't require much to run well. Anyone who ******* about it should be directed to a google search for 10 year old technology. If you played XI at a more than casual level then you've already invested the time. People were comfortable with it taking ages to farm gear, crafting levels, merits, ect. because they were led to believe that SE would never be raising the level cap.

PS2 may have been begrudgingly dropped? It only took a few years to overhaul what 1.0 was into what ARR is. I think all they really needed to do was update XI's engine and UI and push for a PS3 release. XIV runs on a PS3 and after launching on PS2, it just seemed like the next step for Vana'diel. XI was at it's peak around the time of ToAU. Ironically, ToAU released roughly the same amount of time before the PS3 as XIV did compared to PS4.


I'm pretty sure that game could be aggressively developed throughout the remainder of our lifetime and have enough money left over for a 6 pack. Had they invested more of those profits back into the game, I don't really have any doubt that XI would still thrive and XIV would instead have been Lightning Returns. That said, I still can't figure out why they went away from XI. They are competing with themselves in an already saturated market. Does not compute.


Edited, Dec 13th 2013 2:17am by FilthMcNasty

umm CoP story.... as for figuring out what you need to do... umm not every game holds your hand and has big icons above characters or waypoint indicators for example:

Final Fantasy 1
Final Fantasy II
Dragon Warrior
Dragon Quest 8

are a few of the games i can name off the top of my head where you werent spoonfed directions and had to explore/figure out the next step yourself... yet no one complained about those games



Edited, Dec 13th 2013 2:11am by DuoMaxwellxx