Forum Settings
       
1 2 3 Next »
Reply To Thread

Housing Prices - Opinion PollFollow

#52 Dec 17 2013 at 9:42 AM Rating: Good
Scholar
***
1,732 posts
Hyanmen wrote:
Wealthiest players is rather close to the mark I'd say, since there is a certain amount of competition in being able to acquire the best plots (unless SE will just open more instances every time the old ones fill up, which negates the competition aspect completely. Considering the best plots are status symbols that would be unfortunate).

Then again I don't understand why you can only choose one option in this poll. Casual players will have no problems with how easy gil is to acquire. In FFXI I couldn't buy myself a HQ anything (haubergeon, scorpion harness, all the good stuff) no matter how many hours I put in while in XIV I can just casually amass enough gil to fund a mid-sized FC house by myself.

So in the end I had to go with the last option.


What are you talking about.. In FFXI I had 5 million gil and in this game I barely broke 100,000 gil... Nothing sells for anything on the damn broken board where everyone undercuts since they can see what everyone is selling for. Most dungeon drops and GC gear is better than crafted gear. Money is barely needed in this game but I would not say it is easy to come by..
____________________________
FFXI: Nashred
Server: Phoenix

FFXIV : Sir Nashred
server: Ultros
#53 Dec 17 2013 at 9:53 AM Rating: Default
Nashred wrote:
What are you talking about.. In FFXI I had 5 million gil and in this game I barely broke 100,000 gil... Nothing sells for anything on the damn broken board where everyone undercuts since they can see what everyone is selling for. Most dungeon drops and GC gear is better than crafted gear. Money is barely needed in this game but I would not say it is easy to come by..


You can acquire 20k+ per day in this game by just using the NPC-based features (guaranteed money for little time spent).... Other than that I can just say that broken board is very much functional to me, with much of it having to do with the fact nobody cares how much money they spend on items while being clueless about how to make money using the board, giving me massive profit margins on items of all levels.

Being lvl 50 crafter in all professions is useless if you don't know how to harness that power. Most crafters I meet seem to have that issue.


Edited, Dec 17th 2013 6:55pm by Hyanmen
#54 Dec 17 2013 at 9:57 AM Rating: Good
****
6,899 posts
Hyanmen wrote:
Even with taking all that into account you were still talking about the medium plot essentially making the price four times larger than it needs to be. Like I said even if I could play casually and buy the medium plot didn't mean everyone can do the same. But they can still participate in the content (solo) using the small plots.

Legacy server plot prices will match that of the highest new server prices in a matter of three months.

You're asking why it should take a few months to participate in vanity/social content. Let me ask you why it shouldn't take few months to participate in completely optional content that has nothing to do with your character's progression. Why should there not be inherent value in obtaining a house that is not so easily obtainable, making it much more than a vanity and or social feature (a status symbol)? If you take the value of a status symbol away a vanity system like this will not have nearly as much value to it. Why strip it away, especially when individual housing will co-exist with it in few month's time either way?

At least a vanity system like transmogrification modifies your character's appearance directly, justifying it's existence in a much more direct way.


I talked about a medium plot because you cited it in your example of casual friendly. And just fyi, after 90 days the price has bottomed out. It doesn't keep going lower. So legacy will ALWAYS be more expensive than new server unless all the plots sell on a new server and a new instance is opened resetting the prices, but that can happen on legacy too.

You want to know why it shouldn't take that long? Because it's not hardcore endgame content. You said it yourself, it has nothing to do with progression, so why should it take months on end to achieve? It's social content that is supposed to be a place for FCs to gather, hang out, and craft. Currently, that's all housing is, yet they are treating it like it's this amazing content that deserves months and months of work and more gil than most FC's will ever see in a lifetime of gaming.

For my FC to get the land we want, it's virtually unachievable currently. Or, if we did attempt it, it would require every member contributing every penny they could for months and months and months, playing every day for at least several hours JUST to pay for housing. Again I ask you, how is that casual? How is that in the best interest of any but the most hardcore and richest players?
Hyanmen wrote:

If you don't want RMT in your game, don't give gil any value.

The playerbase has a decision to make. The problem is that nobody seems to get the big picture so their judgment is too hasty.

You either make gil a near meaningless currency or you deal with the consequences of gil having value (RMT and gil buyers).

But to state that one solution is soooo much better than the other is just an insult. Why is it so horrible to wish for money to be actually valuable?


You're right Hyanmen, it's all of us that are just too hasty. It couldn't possibly have anything to do with your outlook. Smiley: rolleyes

Unfortunately, your assumptions fail to account for things like fair market value and economics. What they just did with this pricing is an early Christmas present for RMT. They just increased the demand for gil 1000-fold, and while they have slowly increased the ability to make gil, the supply will not match the demand for a very long time at current pricing. This means far more people will resort to buying gil to afford housing. I'm curious SE even realizes that a huge chunk of the gil they accounted for in their server totals is RMT gil. The average players that I know have anywhere from 50k-500k. Even the heavy crafters I know have no more than 1-2m usually. I have 5 crafts at 50 and spent a fair amount of time just making gil and have less than 2m myself.

The problem is, they took gil from being very unimportant, to being the most important thing for players who actually want housing. It's not horrible for money to have value, if it's actually incorporated in a well thought out manner. This was not, and the game economies are going to suffer horribly for it.

Edited, Dec 17th 2013 11:15am by BartelX
____________________________
Bartel Hayward--- Ultros Server
The Kraken Club <ZAM>
50 WAR • 50 MNK • 50 MIN • 50 GSM • 50 ARM • 50 LTW • 50 CUL • 50 WVR
thekrakenclub.shivtr.com
#55 Dec 17 2013 at 10:14 AM Rating: Default
BartelX wrote:
Hyanmen wrote:
Even with taking all that into account you were still talking about the medium plot essentially making the price four times larger than it needs to be. Like I said even if I could play casually and buy the medium plot didn't mean everyone can do the same. But they can still participate in the content (solo) using the small plots.

Legacy server plot prices will match that of the highest new server prices in a matter of three months.

You're asking why it should take a few months to participate in vanity/social content. Let me ask you why it shouldn't take few months to participate in completely optional content that has nothing to do with your character's progression. Why should there not be inherent value in obtaining a house that is not so easily obtainable, making it much more than a vanity and or social feature (a status symbol)? If you take the value of a status symbol away a vanity system like this will not have nearly as much value to it. Why strip it away, especially when individual housing will co-exist with it in few month's time either way?

At least a vanity system like transmogrification modifies your character's appearance directly, justifying it's existence in a much more direct way.


I talked about a medium plot because you cited it in your example of casual friendly. And just fyi, after 90 days the price has bottomed out. It doesn't keep going lower. So legacy will ALWAYS be more expensive than new server unless all the plots sell on a new server and a new instance is opened resetting the prices, but that can happen on legacy too.

You want to know why it shouldn't take that long? Because it's not hardcore endgame content. You said it yourself, it has nothing to do with progression, so why should it take months on end to achieve? It's social content that is supposed to be a place for FCs to gather, hang out, and craft. Currently, that's all housing is, yet they are treating it like it's this amazing content that deserves months and months of work and more gil than most FC's will ever see in a lifetime of gaming.

For my FC to get the land we want, it's virtually unachievable currently. Or, if we did attempt it, it would require every member contributing every penny they could for months and months and months, playing every day for at least several hours JUST to pay for housing. Again I ask you, how is that casual? How is that in the best interest of any but the most hardcore and richest players?


I cited it in my example of what I can do (and I'm casual, but I make more money than casuals usually do). It was not an example of casual friendly in general. When speaking about casual friendly in general obviously the prices of small plots should be used. I've said this twice now. What is the issue here?

FYI Legacy servers will have their plot prices slashed to the level of new servers by the end of the next three month period.

I just told you it's a status symbol for FC's and not just a place to gather, hang out and craft. If you want to disagree with me feel free to do so but at least don't completely ignore my argument in the process. It's a status symbol similar to achievements and ladder rankings in other games but with the added benefit of being actual 3D models instead of nothing more than a piece of text and a number. Yet just like achievements this is completely optional and in no way makes your character stronger.

Edited, Dec 17th 2013 7:15pm by Hyanmen
#56 Dec 17 2013 at 10:19 AM Rating: Decent
Can someone please, please find out if furniture give buffs?

Buff to Stats? Crafting? Elemental Resistances?



#57 Dec 17 2013 at 10:23 AM Rating: Excellent
****
4,175 posts
Hyanmen wrote:
Why is it so horrible to wish for money to be actually valuable?


This thread as well as several others in other forums are littered with answers to your question. They're not my personal opinions, but mostly valid complaints all around. I'd just point out that giving gil a value is directly proportional to RMT activity.

Disclaimer: I don't purchase gil or items. If I feel the grind is too steep for the reward, I'll just avoid the item.

This situation reminds me a lot of something that I heard just recently. This past Black Friday there was a radio show doing interviews with people who were out searching for deals. One particular interview that stood out was a man who was camping in line for 3 days. Turns out he had taken a week off of work to stand in line for something he was going to save $300 on.

My question for you... Is it worth taking time off and standing in line for a week to save $300 when you could probably make that much and more had you just gone to work? With your answer in mind, is it worth grinding for 90 days in-game when you could just work for a few days IRL and buy the gil for the plot in far less time? You might be super anti-RMT, but logically it's pretty easy to figure out why it happens.
____________________________
Rinsui wrote:
Only hips + boobs all day and hips + boobs all over my icecream

HaibaneRenmei wrote:
30 bucks is almost free

cocodojo wrote:
Its personal preference and all, but yes we need to educate WoW players that this is OUR game, these are Characters and not Toons. Time to beat that into them one at a time.
#58 Dec 17 2013 at 10:29 AM Rating: Excellent
****
6,899 posts
Hyanmen wrote:
I cited it in my example of what I can do (and I'm casual, but I make more money than casuals usually do). It was not an example of casual friendly in general. When speaking about casual friendly in general obviously the prices of small plots should be used. I've said this twice now. What is the issue here?

FYI Legacy servers will have their plot prices slashed to the level of new servers by the end of the next three month period.

I just told you it's a status symbol for FC's and not just a place to gather, hang out and craft. If you want to disagree with me feel free to do so but at least don't completely ignore my argument in the process. It's a status symbol similar to achievements and ladder rankings in other games but with the added benefit of being actual 3D models instead of nothing more than a piece of text and a number. Yet just like achievements this is completely optional and in no way makes your character stronger.


So everyone else should have to suffer because you're so good at making gil? Not to mention, I've given you a breakdown on small plots, and also gave a breakdown on medium plots with multiple members. But to reiterate: A small plot on a new server is 8-10m gil. If you're talking about an individual making 8-10m gil, that's not a casual endeavor in the slightest. I've been fairly active in my 4 months so far, and would not even be 1/4 of the way there. And I play about 2-3 hours a day. So I think your definition of casual kind of interferes with what casual actually means. Even after the price is cut in half, I'm not even halfway there yet after 4 months of saving.

FYI, as I said as bluntly as possible in my last post, legacy server prices will drop to half their normal value in 3 months... so will new servers. They will never be equal in price unless all slots sell out in a new server and a fresh instance is opened, which can also happen on a legacy server. The concept is pretty straight-forward.

Lastly, it's only a status symbol because they MADE it a status symbol. Without outlandish pricing, it's housing made for FC's to buy and enjoy as a group... you know, how they've been touting it the entire time. It'd be one thing if this whole time they'd been claiming that the housing was a status symbol for the rich and hardcore. However, according to the devs and Yoshi-P, was meant for regular players to enjoy, and for average FCs of any size to acquire based on their number of members. They went so far as to claim that 4 average players at level 50 can afford a plot with just earnings 1-50. Sorry, I leveled 1-50, did almost all the allagan piece quests, and made about 500k. 500k x 4 =/= 8-10 million gil, the price of a small plot of land on a new server. Even after three months it's not even close.

So if you're argument is that it's ok because it's a status symbol and that you make more gil than others, I'd say that's pretty weak and rather selfish.

Edited, Dec 17th 2013 11:46am by BartelX
____________________________
Bartel Hayward--- Ultros Server
The Kraken Club <ZAM>
50 WAR • 50 MNK • 50 MIN • 50 GSM • 50 ARM • 50 LTW • 50 CUL • 50 WVR
thekrakenclub.shivtr.com
#59 Dec 17 2013 at 10:35 AM Rating: Default
FilthMcNasty wrote:
Hyanmen wrote:
Why is it so horrible to wish for money to be actually valuable?


My question for you... Is it worth taking time off and standing in line for a week to save $300 when you could probably make that much and more had you just gone to work? With your answer in mind, is it worth grinding for 90 days in-game when you could just work for a few days IRL and buy the gil for the plot in far less time? You might be super anti-RMT, but logically it's pretty easy to figure out why it happens.


Is it worth getting permabanned by doing so? That's the question that pro-RMT people need to ask. Of course it's SE's duty to catch the abusers but that comes with the territory. You can effectively get rid of abuse by making the risk of getting caught too high.

If the playerbase will come to the conclusion that they don't want money to be valuable, then personally I can deal with the fact. Let's not act like gil buyers can not be dealt with efficiently however. The downsides are totally manageable, so it perplexes me why some people act like the situation is totally uncontrollable.

Anyway, thanks for repeating my point. Value of gil increases = RMT activity increases. Make the choice, people!

#60 Dec 17 2013 at 10:54 AM Rating: Good
****
4,175 posts
Hyanmen wrote:
FilthMcNasty wrote:
Hyanmen wrote:
Why is it so horrible to wish for money to be actually valuable?


My question for you... Is it worth taking time off and standing in line for a week to save $300 when you could probably make that much and more had you just gone to work? With your answer in mind, is it worth grinding for 90 days in-game when you could just work for a few days IRL and buy the gil for the plot in far less time? You might be super anti-RMT, but logically it's pretty easy to figure out why it happens.


Is it worth getting permabanned by doing so? That's the question that pro-RMT people need to ask. Of course it's SE's duty to catch the abusers but that comes with the territory. You can effectively get rid of abuse by making the risk of getting caught too high.


To be clear, I'm not pro-RMT. I just can't blame people who'd rather trade 20 hours of work IRL to save themselves much more time grinding in-game. Based on the reports that SE releases, the penalty isn't steep enough if there are thousands of people still taking that risk. Bans don't really thwart RMT. Need proof? See pudding.

Hyanmen wrote:
The downsides are totally manageable, so it perplexes me why some people act like the situation is totally uncontrollable.


I didn't say it was uncontrollable. In fact, I made the case for the opposite. SE has total control of the 'value' of gil. What perplexes me is that they are the ones who create the supply and demand. If they were really concerned with RMT, they've skipped over the first and most obvious place to make adjustments. Y4?
____________________________
Rinsui wrote:
Only hips + boobs all day and hips + boobs all over my icecream

HaibaneRenmei wrote:
30 bucks is almost free

cocodojo wrote:
Its personal preference and all, but yes we need to educate WoW players that this is OUR game, these are Characters and not Toons. Time to beat that into them one at a time.
#61 Dec 17 2013 at 10:56 AM Rating: Default
BartelX wrote:
So everyone else should have to suffer because you're so good at making gil? And having every crafting class at 50 doesn't seem all that casual to me...

FYI, as I said as bluntly as possible in my last post, legacy server prices will drop to half their normal value in 3 months... so will new servers. They will never be equal in price unless all slots sell out in a new server and a fresh instance is opened, which can also happen on a legacy server. The concept isn't that hard to understand.

Lastly, it's only a status symbol because they MADE it a status symbol. Without outlandish pricing, it's housing made for FC's to buy and enjoy as a group... you know, how they've been touting it the entire time. It'd be one thing if this whole time they'd been claiming that the housing was a status symbol for the rich and hardcore. Your argument is pointless because this system, according to the devs and Yoshi-P, was meant for regular players to enjoy, and for average FCs of any size to acquire based on their number of members. They went so far as to claim that 4 average players at level 50 can afford a plot with just earnings 1-50. Sorry, I leveled 1-50, did almost all the allagan piece quests, and made about 500k. 500k x 4 =/= 8-10 million gil, the price of a small plot of land on a new server. Even after three months it's not even close.

So if you're argument is that it's ok because it's a status symbol and that you make more gil than others, I'd say that's pretty weak and rather selfish.


Please tell me how everyone else suffers any more than when the feature is delayed. In either scenario they can't use the feature, so... (none of my crafting classes are lvl50 FYI. My highest profession is lvl41. Where did you pull that claim from?)

Once again, legacy server prices will drop by more than half their normal value in three months. 40 million will become 8 million. Maybe they will even drop to 4 million but that's speculation. Either way you should read up on the latest news before you speak again on this.

500k x 4 x three months of earnings (the time it takes for the plot price to fall). Are we getting closer? We should be. Soo let's say 15k a day for four people for three months.... 5400k. Either way it's a status symbol because you had to work for it. Just a smaller, casual-sized one.

Quote:
To be clear, I'm not pro-RMT. I just can't blame people who'd rather trade 20 hours of work IRL to save themselves much more time grinding in-game. Based on the reports that SE releases, the penalty isn't steep enough if there are thousands of people still taking that risk. Bans don't really thwart RMT. Need proof? See pudding.


I'm not accusing you of being pro-RMT, I was just making clear that it's simply not a case of either working in-game or working IRL because working IRL has serious implications a gil buyer must deal with if he wants to skip on the time it takes to acquire the necessary funds. Either way how many people end up taking the shortcut is meaningless if they end up getting banned anyhow. Stupidity knows no limits.


Edited, Dec 17th 2013 8:01pm by Hyanmen
#62 Dec 17 2013 at 11:10 AM Rating: Good
****
6,899 posts
Hyanmen wrote:
Please tell me how everyone else suffers any more than when the feature is delayed. In either scenario they can't use the feature, so... (none of my crafting classes are lvl50 FYI. My highest profession is lvl41. Where did you pull that claim from?)


At least in a delay, they could be honest with us and just say it's not ready instead of trying to arbitrarily force players to way overpay for land (in a possible attempt to just lure out RMT or gilbuyers). It's deceitful if that's what happening, and a really stupid business move. As far as you being level 50 in all crafts, I actually edited it out of my post because after re-reading I wasn't sure if you were referring to yourself or not, which apparently you weren't. My apologies. However, here's where I pulled it from:

Hyanmen wrote:
Being lvl 50 crafter in all professions is useless if you don't know how to harness that power.


Hyanmen wrote:
Once again, legacy server prices will drop by more than half their normal value in three months. 40 million will become 8 million. Maybe they will even drop to 4 million but that's speculation. Either way you should read up on the latest news before you speak again on this.


Again, I apologize, I didn't realize there had been an updated amount and that legacy prices would drop to match World Group 3.

Hyanmen wrote:
500k x 4 x three months of earnings (the time it takes for the plot price to fall). Are we getting closer? We should be. Soo let's say 15k a day for four people for three months.... 5400k.


So 4 players must bring in 15k every single day, for 3 months, just to barely afford the cheapest plot on the new servers. Oh wait, what happens if some other FCs buy up all the cheaper plots first and now you can't afford anything? A new instance is opened and BAM, you're now not even close to the smallest house again. What happens if all of the players can't get on 7 days a week to contribute gil? What happens if some of the players decide they want to spend some money gearing up jobs, or leveling a craft? Now you're 3 month plan just turned into considerably longer. Do you not see how hardcore this sounds? Not to mention, these 4 players would be completely broke upon buying their FC house if they're lucky enough to find one available. Wow, what fun game design.

Edited, Dec 17th 2013 12:15pm by BartelX
____________________________
Bartel Hayward--- Ultros Server
The Kraken Club <ZAM>
50 WAR • 50 MNK • 50 MIN • 50 GSM • 50 ARM • 50 LTW • 50 CUL • 50 WVR
thekrakenclub.shivtr.com
#63 Dec 17 2013 at 11:18 AM Rating: Good
****
4,175 posts
Hyanmen wrote:
Quote:
To be clear, I'm not pro-RMT. I just can't blame people who'd rather trade 20 hours of work IRL to save themselves much more time grinding in-game. Based on the reports that SE releases, the penalty isn't steep enough if there are thousands of people still taking that risk. Bans don't really thwart RMT. Need proof? See pudding.


I'm not accusing you of being pro-RMT, I was just making clear that it's simply not a case of either working in-game or working IRL because working IRL has serious implications a gil buyer must deal with if he wants to skip on the time it takes to acquire the necessary funds. Either way how many people end up taking the shortcut is meaningless if they end up getting banned anyhow. Stupidity knows no limits.


For many people, this is exactly what boils down to. Being banned isn't a serious implication when your reward(time saved) is so much steeper than the risk(time lost). The possibility of a ban doesn't deter RMT because it's still worth it. Not all buyers are banned and it still impacts the economy so saying it's meaningless doesn't really make sense. Ban is a risk worth taking when the amount of time saved is significant enough. Whether or not it's worth it depends on the situation of the player and as we've seen, there are clearly a lot of people who still feel it's a risk worth taking.

What's SE's reasoning for not deflating the value? Do they want people to take the easy route, do they want FC housing to be elite or is housing really not ready and they're trying to stall for time until they can implement the system properly? Whatever their intention is, the implementation doesn't make sense.
____________________________
Rinsui wrote:
Only hips + boobs all day and hips + boobs all over my icecream

HaibaneRenmei wrote:
30 bucks is almost free

cocodojo wrote:
Its personal preference and all, but yes we need to educate WoW players that this is OUR game, these are Characters and not Toons. Time to beat that into them one at a time.
#64 Dec 17 2013 at 11:38 AM Rating: Decent
Scholar
***
1,732 posts
FilthMcNasty wrote:
Hyanmen wrote:
Quote:
To be clear, I'm not pro-RMT. I just can't blame people who'd rather trade 20 hours of work IRL to save themselves much more time grinding in-game. Based on the reports that SE releases, the penalty isn't steep enough if there are thousands of people still taking that risk. Bans don't really thwart RMT. Need proof? See pudding.


I'm not accusing you of being pro-RMT, I was just making clear that it's simply not a case of either working in-game or working IRL because working IRL has serious implications a gil buyer must deal with if he wants to skip on the time it takes to acquire the necessary funds. Either way how many people end up taking the shortcut is meaningless if they end up getting banned anyhow. Stupidity knows no limits.


For many people, this is exactly what boils down to. Being banned isn't a serious implication when your reward(time saved) is so much steeper than the risk(time lost). The possibility of a ban doesn't deter RMT because it's still worth it. Not all buyers are banned and it still impacts the economy so saying it's meaningless doesn't really make sense. Ban is a risk worth taking when the amount of time saved is significant enough. Whether or not it's worth it depends on the situation of the player and as we've seen, there are clearly a lot of people who still feel it's a risk worth taking.

What's SE's reasoning for not deflating the value? Do they want people to take the easy route, do they want FC housing to be elite or is housing really not ready and they're trying to stall for time until they can implement the system properly? Whatever their intention is, the implementation doesn't make sense.


And in this game it is soooooooo easy to go from 1 to 50 you can start a character and be 50 in weeks again so the risk is not too bad.. I hate rmt and I dont care for those that buy gil. But look at FFXI did they ever get rid of them and how old is that game? Never...

Bartel give it up with Hyanmen you aint going to win, He obviously has way too much time on his hands so he does not understand what the average gamer is talking about.. Realized that after one reply to me.



Edited, Dec 17th 2013 12:42pm by Nashred
____________________________
FFXI: Nashred
Server: Phoenix

FFXIV : Sir Nashred
server: Ultros
#65 Dec 17 2013 at 11:40 AM Rating: Default
BartelX wrote:
Hyanmen wrote:
Please tell me how everyone else suffers any more than when the feature is delayed. In either scenario they can't use the feature, so... (none of my crafting classes are lvl50 FYI. My highest profession is lvl41. Where did you pull that claim from?)


At least in a delay, they could be honest with us and just say it's not ready instead of trying to arbitrarily force players to way overpay for land (in a possible attempt to just lure out RMT or gilbuyers). It's deceitful if that's what happening, and a really stupid business move. As far as you being level 50 in all crafts, I actually edited it out of my post because after re-reading I wasn't sure if you were referring to yourself or not, which apparently you weren't. My apologies. However, here's where I pulled it from:


I don't feel that saying it's not ready is them being honest..to be honest. What do you call it, then, other than ready, when in fact some people could use the feature and there would be no added harm in letting them do so. It would be just mean and deceitful to not let these people have their fun just because others needed to wait longer. In either case they'd need to wait.

To sum it up I don't consider this way of thinking a gross mistatement in the least. Is it one person, ten, hundreds? Nobody knows for sure, but denying their fun for no apparent gain had is not my definition of fairness. If you can't see where I'm coming from then we can agree to disagree.

Hyanmen wrote:
500k x 4 x three months of earnings (the time it takes for the plot price to fall). Are we getting closer? We should be. Soo let's say 15k a day for four people for three months.... 5400k.


Quote:
So 4 players must bring in 15k every single day, for 3 months, just to barely afford the cheapest plot on the new servers. Oh wait, what happens if some other FCs buy up all the cheaper plots first and now you can't afford anything? A new instance is opened and BAM, you're now not even close to the smallest house again. What happens if all of the players can't get on 7 days a week to contribute gil? What happens if some of the players decide they want to spend some money gearing up jobs, or leveling a craft? Now you're 3 month plan just turned into considerably longer. Do you not see how hardcore this sounds? Not to mention, these 4 players would be completely broke upon buying their FC house if they're lucky enough to find one available. Wow, what fun game design.


That's 7400k gil, for a 4000k plot (after 3 months). That's almost double the gil needed, and very very very close to newly added instance prices. I don't consider that to be barely. But maybe our definitions differ.

I could have used 20k because that's doable and you used it too but I said 15k. One fourth of the gil goes towards all that other stuff, or not being able to play, etc. With 7400k there's a good chance you can go even lower than 15k before you can't afford the house (or have to wait a month longer). All this sounds quite relaxed to me. It may take time but not much on a per day basis.
#66 Dec 17 2013 at 11:45 AM Rating: Excellent
Yeaaaah I'm a filthy casual because I don't play this game every day. It's nice on days I can, but I still hang out in FFXI twice a week as there's always stuff to do there, and I have a full time job, a husband, and other hobbies besides video games. I get about two or three hours of game time in, three to four times a week, with the occasional day to burn a longer session (e.g. on a Sunday, or a holiday.)

Realistically, I earn about 80K-100K gil a week. Almost all of that gets re-invested back into crafting right now, or gear for gathering. I suspect that's the case for most players who aren't focusing on farming exclusively.
#67 Dec 17 2013 at 11:50 AM Rating: Default
Nashred wrote:

And in this game it is soooooooo easy to go from 1 to 50 you can start a character and be 50 in weeks again so the risk is not too bad.. I hate rmt and I dont care for those that buy gil. But look at FFXI did they ever get rid of them and how old is that game? Never...


I don't know how to say this nicely but have you ever heard of item levels? They extend the progression starting from level 50 and it takes quite a bit longer than few weeks to progress these levels. Making the risk of getting banned even bigger.
#68 Dec 17 2013 at 12:38 PM Rating: Good
****
6,899 posts
Hyanmen wrote:
I don't feel that saying it's not ready is them being honest..to be honest. What do you call it, then, other than ready, when in fact some people could use the feature and there would be no added harm in letting them do so. It would be just mean and deceitful to not let these people have their fun just because others needed to wait longer. In either case they'd need to wait.

To sum it up I don't consider this way of thinking a gross mistatement in the least. Is it one person, ten, hundreds? Nobody knows for sure, but denying their fun for no apparent gain had is not my definition of fairness. If you can't see where I'm coming from then we can agree to disagree.


I guess we'll have to, because I don't see your point at all. In fact, I think it's incredibly selfish. Making everyone wait so that they can all enjoy the content simultaneously is much more fair than allowing the .1% to have their way for the foreseeable future while the rest have to endlessly grind.

Hyanmen wrote:
500k x 4 x three months of earnings (the time it takes for the plot price to fall). Are we getting closer? We should be. Soo let's say 15k a day for four people for three months.... 5400k.


Hyanmen wrote:
That's 7400k gil, for a 4000k plot (after 3 months). That's almost double the gil needed, and very very very close to newly added instance prices. I don't consider that to be barely. But maybe our definitions differ.

I could have used 20k because that's doable and you used it too but I said 15k. One fourth of the gil goes towards all that other stuff, or not being able to play, etc. With 7400k there's a good chance you can go even lower than 15k before you can't afford the house (or have to wait a month longer). All this sounds quite relaxed to me. It may take time but not much on a per day basis.


Let's do the real math then, shall we? The 500k players earn from 1-50 has almost no bearing on this equation, since most probably spent it already leveling crafts and I'd go so far as to say the average casual has FAR less than 500k on them currently. It was used as a reference to what Yoshida said housing would cost for a small FC (which was obviously grossly underestimated).

We'll say each player has 100k to contribute off the bat without bankrupting them (which is high in a lot of cases). Hell, we'll call it an even 500k for 4 players. I'd say that's pretty fair. Now, these 4 players are casuals. Most casuals don't play 7 days a week, and they certainly don't take the 3ish hours required to get that 20k of gil each and every day. Dailies alone take well over an hour, and the dungeon roulette, based on class, takes FAR longer. So realistically, that 15k/day figure you mentioned is pretty inaccurate for casual players.

Yes, I realize you probably make more than that, but most don't. I know because most in my FC don't. At most, I'd say that casual players are probably going to do about 3-4 days a week for donations, and probably 10-15k each of those times. This is being realistic. So 4 players x 15k x 4 days per week (giving all benefits of the doubt) = 240k/week. So after 3 months of optimum investing they've made roughly 3m gil, plus the 500k initial startup. After 3 months, 4 casual players still can't afford the smallest house, working at a pretty heavy rate of gil contribution per player (I've yet to see ANY player in my FC donate 60k per week on a consistent basis).

And again, even if they COULD afford it, that assumes that plots are still available at those low prices. It also assumes that everything will remain constant in terms of gil contribution, that none of them will take vacations, or want to save any money for anything else they do. You keep mentioning 3 months as if somehow that's a fair amount of time to have to save up gil for a house that has no function other than vanity and social interaction (oh, and a status symbol, lol). Apparently you think that's acceptable. I don't. I think it's an unnecessary grind and a ******** system. There's really nothing more to discuss about it.
____________________________
Bartel Hayward--- Ultros Server
The Kraken Club <ZAM>
50 WAR • 50 MNK • 50 MIN • 50 GSM • 50 ARM • 50 LTW • 50 CUL • 50 WVR
thekrakenclub.shivtr.com
#69 Dec 17 2013 at 12:43 PM Rating: Decent
Perhaps we are forecasting Income based on the rate we could obtain gil pre-2.1?

There is a chance that this income rate is actually going to increase in the way SE is predicting. It's hard to say if that's true or not at this moment.
#70 Dec 17 2013 at 1:10 PM Rating: Good
****
4,175 posts
Nashred wrote:
And in this game it is soooooooo easy to go from 1 to 50 you can start a character and be 50 in weeks again so the risk is not too bad.. I hate rmt and I dont care for those that buy gil. But look at FFXI did they ever get rid of them and how old is that game? Never...


The reward outweighs being banned. The same was true in FFXI, hence RMT being so prevalent. The reward is also(sometimes) a steeper time investment in-game than it is IRL.

My point is that SE has more control over RMT than just a STF with banhammers. If I were RMT I'd be advertising packages for each sized lot. Sell the bulk amount of gil needed as a package. It's almost like SE, despite saying they calculated RMT impact, basically set them up for sales over the next few months.

I personally couldn't care less about the housing. I get that some people really like the idea and I understand why, but it doesn't have any value to me. Actually, I'd probably get kicked from FC for explaining to them that I don't care about housing and I'm not willing to contribute. I'm just trying to figure out what the reason for the way they implemented it is.

Are they in bed with RMT? Is the content just not ready and you need to stall it out for time? Did they just miscalculate how much the prices were? If you wanted people to be able to accomplish this in 90 days, why not just wait 90 days to implement it? Why not have it release over time where maybe the first month you get the plot, then the next month you build the housing and the third month you furnish it? At least that way people feel like they're progressing. I just don't get it.
____________________________
Rinsui wrote:
Only hips + boobs all day and hips + boobs all over my icecream

HaibaneRenmei wrote:
30 bucks is almost free

cocodojo wrote:
Its personal preference and all, but yes we need to educate WoW players that this is OUR game, these are Characters and not Toons. Time to beat that into them one at a time.
#71 Dec 17 2013 at 1:25 PM Rating: Decent
Scholar
***
1,732 posts
FilthMcNasty wrote:
Nashred wrote:
And in this game it is soooooooo easy to go from 1 to 50 you can start a character and be 50 in weeks again so the risk is not too bad.. I hate rmt and I dont care for those that buy gil. But look at FFXI did they ever get rid of them and how old is that game? Never...


The reward outweighs being banned. The same was true in FFXI, hence RMT being so prevalent. The reward is also(sometimes) a steeper time investment in-game than it is IRL.

My point is that SE has more control over RMT than just a STF with banhammers. If I were RMT I'd be advertising packages for each sized lot. Sell the bulk amount of gil needed as a package. It's almost like SE, despite saying they calculated RMT impact, basically set them up for sales over the next few months.

I personally couldn't care less about the housing. I get that some people really like the idea and I understand why, but it doesn't have any value to me. Actually, I'd probably get kicked from FC for explaining to them that I don't care about housing and I'm not willing to contribute. I'm just trying to figure out what the reason for the way they implemented it is.

Are they in bed with RMT? Is the content just not ready and you need to stall it out for time? Did they just miscalculate how much the prices were? If you wanted people to be able to accomplish this in 90 days, why not just wait 90 days to implement it? Why not have it release over time where maybe the first month you get the plot, then the next month you build the housing and the third month you furnish it? At least that way people feel like they're progressing. I just don't get it.


I dont know if you thought I was being sarcastic but I was agreeing with what you said...

Edited, Dec 17th 2013 3:52pm by Nashred
____________________________
FFXI: Nashred
Server: Phoenix

FFXIV : Sir Nashred
server: Ultros
#72 Dec 17 2013 at 1:35 PM Rating: Decent
Scholar
****
4,511 posts
The real problem is the massive (and surprisingly easy) hacks, bots and cheats that have been used to generate that gil.

You only get 200.000 from finishing the main story, and any amount of that you used on NPC gear and materials needs to be substracted too. There's no reason there should be this much gil on the server. The only way it could have come there is from hacking. Once their open database in the first week of the game got compromised and some people gave themselves 900 bilion gil because they could, SE should have wiped everything and started over. There's no way you can recover from that. And looking at the prices they think are justified, there simply is no way they can :/
____________________________
[XI] Surivere of Valefor
[XIV] Sir Surian Bedivere of Behemoth
http://na.finalfantasyxiv.com/lodestone/character/2401553/
#73 Dec 17 2013 at 4:26 PM Rating: Default
BartelX wrote:
I guess we'll have to, because I don't see your point at all. In fact, I think it's incredibly selfish. Making everyone wait so that they can all enjoy the content simultaneously is much more fair than allowing the .1% to have their way for the foreseeable future while the rest have to endlessly grind.


So in the first option everyone waits, nobody gets to enjoy the content.... this makes sense.

In the second option some people get to enjoy the content because they can while the rest "have to endlessly grind".... wait, what? What happened to waiting it out as in the first option?

Nope. I can't explain it any better than I already did. I do hope that some people get it, if not you.

Quote:
The real problem is the massive (and surprisingly easy) hacks, bots and cheats that have been used to generate that gil.

You only get 200.000 from finishing the main story, and any amount of that you used on NPC gear and materials needs to be substracted too. There's no reason there should be this much gil on the server. The only way it could have come there is from hacking. Once their open database in the first week of the game got compromised and some people gave themselves 900 bilion gil because they could, SE should have wiped everything and started over. There's no way you can recover from that. And looking at the prices they think are justified, there simply is no way they can :/


Every cleared FATE with 20 people participating creates 1000 gil on the server (20x50gil). Millions and millions generated every day just by people spamming FATE's. The game is filled with money fountains like this dude.

Edited, Dec 18th 2013 1:31am by Hyanmen
#74 Dec 17 2013 at 6:14 PM Rating: Excellent
****
6,899 posts
Hyanmen wrote:
BartelX wrote:
I guess we'll have to, because I don't see your point at all. In fact, I think it's incredibly selfish. Making everyone wait so that they can all enjoy the content simultaneously is much more fair than allowing the .1% to have their way for the foreseeable future while the rest have to endlessly grind.


So in the first option everyone waits, nobody gets to enjoy the content.... this makes sense.

In the second option some people get to enjoy the content because they can while the rest "have to endlessly grind".... wait, what? What happened to waiting it out as in the first option?

Nope. I can't explain it any better than I already did. I do hope that some people get it, if not you.


Nope, I get what you're saying. I just think you're completely wrong. Allowing the top .1% to enjoy something that others can't for an extensive amount of time is a worse option than just having everyone wait until it can be put out on a much more equal playing field. That's all there is to it.
____________________________
Bartel Hayward--- Ultros Server
The Kraken Club <ZAM>
50 WAR • 50 MNK • 50 MIN • 50 GSM • 50 ARM • 50 LTW • 50 CUL • 50 WVR
thekrakenclub.shivtr.com
#75 Dec 17 2013 at 6:23 PM Rating: Good
Scholar
***
1,104 posts
I'm not interesting in player housing at all but I will say the pricing is insane. There's no defense for this, it's just stupid.
____________________________
http://na.finalfantasyxiv.com/lodestone/character/1053318/
#76 Dec 17 2013 at 6:27 PM Rating: Good
I think some people understood how significant it was, and I'm slow to catch on, but the restrictive prices are actually keeping the inadequate housing servers from being flooded.

So that's sad.
1 2 3 Next »
Reply To Thread

Colors Smileys Quote OriginalQuote Checked Help

 

Recent Visitors: 249 All times are in CST
Anonymous Guests (249)