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#1 Mar 10 2014 at 11:50 AM Rating: Decent
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so when I tanked on MRD it was pretty easy... ranged attack to pull group, flash then use overpower 3 times before starting my enmity combo (on the first mob only) and i usual;y have hate throughout teh whole fights...



pld however not habving overpower seems a million times harder... i ranged attack to pull group, flash when they get together then do enmity combo on first mobe switch to second and repeat than to 3rd and do teh same... or at leas thast the plan.. however before i can combo the second or third mob ive lost hate and now ppl and gettin beat up lol... so my other idea was to pull then flash tnen ranged attacked the other two mobs then combo each mob individually but obviouslly befor ei coudl pull that off im definitely gonna lose hate.. (my pld is 33 btw) sooo what can I do to sucure hate as pld so Im not sucking horribly? (also dont say mark targets because ppl ignore that anyway lol like the aoe loving BLMs or i might lose hate from being healed etc etc)
#2 Mar 10 2014 at 12:21 PM Rating: Good
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Don't be afraid to use flash more than once. Paladin has a lot more MP than warrior does, and flash does a pretty good job at taking hate on a group when you need it sooner rather than later. Cycling your combo to multiple mobs is good, and I'd keep doing it, but if you're in danger of losing hate on multiple mobs quickly, using flash again and instantly taking a chunk of hate on multiple mobs may be more effective than fiddling with your combo. Once hate is secured and you're not in any danger of losing hate, start cycling again (can still throw in flash between cycles to repeat the blind effect and further secure hate on all targets if you've got the MP to spare).

Also, if you're having a tough time I'd still mark targets even if people tend to ignore them. At least that way if one pulls hate one too many times, they might start following the targets to make the run go more smoothly. Damage dealers are just as capable of watching the enmity list as you are.
#3 Mar 10 2014 at 12:33 PM Rating: Excellent
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A very good tip is while you cycle targets, look at the little white bars next to the player names that's the level of agro of each player on that mob. So if you see one slipping, use your biggest available enmity attack on that one. But Susanoh is correct, a good thing to do when you know you have a strong DPS group is to spread out the hate:

Shield toss target 1, Flash, Fast Blade target 1,
Savage Blade target 2,
Rage of Halone target 3 or 1,
Tab through targets on GC (flash if group hate low)
Enmity combo target 1,
Tab through targets on GC,
Fast Blade target 2, Savage Blade target 2
Rage target 1 or 3 (if 1 is safe),
Enmity focus on target 2,
Tab through

....anyway, that's an example. Flash is nifty, but relatively inefficient over all. If you have an AoE pack it's about all you have however, just tab skill, tab skill, after a good flash bomb (3 flash). The best thing to know is how to setup positioning in questionable encounters, don't stray too far away from the group, pull back toward the group unless the mob has a nasty AoE, always face the mobs away anyhow.

Don't forget about Shield Bash; you can use that to reacquire hate if something is peeling, once you get Advanced Shield Bash (lv36) you get 6 seconds of initial stun.
#4 Mar 10 2014 at 2:12 PM Rating: Excellent
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I can tell you how I open up each pull

* Shield Lob (Pull)
* Flash as group gets near me
* Use 1st part of 3 part combo (main mob)
* Flash (Cycle through the groups to see where every1 else hate is)
* Use 2nd part of 3 part combo (main mob)
* If borderline losing hate flash and finish combo on the one that you are most likely going to lose hate. (main or near loss of hate)

* Hit main one with 3 part combo, cycling through mobs to see where hate might be. If need be, use rage of halone (3rd) part on the one thats about to run away)

It involves using flash in between my opening combo on the main mob, cycle through to see which one you are about to lose and hit it with a combo, you should have enough hate on the main with opening combo and flash that you can do so without it running after your party members.

Marking targets do help some, if people don't following the marking you place, you are faced with 2 choices. Adjust your pulling and hate management to suite their style or simply put, let them die if they pull hate on mobs they shouldn't be touching yet. I have done both, adjusting my playing style and letting them die and in the end getting praise in the way I ran the group through the encounter.
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#5 Mar 10 2014 at 2:42 PM Rating: Excellent
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Drop a 1 on whatever you will target first, then Shield lob that target, wait for the group to gather, then Flash two times, then start the combo. Post 50 I would add circle of scorn after the flahes. If you have problems holding hate with aoe from summoners, bards and blm, scrap the fast blade > savage blade > Rage of halone combo and instead go Fast Blade > Riot Blade > Flash > Flash, then repeat the combo until all are dead, popping cooldowns as necessary. I do this when speed tanking 10+ mobs at a time in wanderer's palace and it works pretty well to hold hate vs aoe (the riot blade is to restore mp so you can keep casting flash).
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#6 Mar 10 2014 at 7:24 PM Rating: Excellent
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I put my mark on my shield lob, making that the primary target. you don't have to waste time/macro space with it on a seperate button. you may have to turn it off in raids, but oh well.
#7 Mar 10 2014 at 10:20 PM Rating: Excellent
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Mostly what others have said.. Pull with Shield Lob. hit flash 2 times go through hate combo hit flash again.. use riot combo inbetween to gain mp back up.
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#8 Mar 11 2014 at 7:33 AM Rating: Excellent
Don't forget to weave circle of scorn and spirits within in between your attacks as well. They're off the GCD so you can use them in between your normal combos.
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#9 Mar 11 2014 at 8:10 AM Rating: Default
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Its not even as complicated as you guys make it sound. You can cycle mobs and do agro combo combos if you want, but i dont even both cycling targets, just flash ...lots and lots of flash.

1) pull with lob
2) flash
3) circle/spirits
4) flash
flash
flash
flash
flash
5) mp combo
6) flash (cos/sw when up)

repeat 5/6 until group is dead.
#10 Mar 11 2014 at 10:11 AM Rating: Good
Flash is your weakest threat generator of all the moves that give extra enmity and the riot blade combo doesn't give any extra enmity. Cycling threat moves lands you much more solid threat than spamming flash on anything up to above 4 targets.
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#11 Mar 11 2014 at 2:34 PM Rating: Good
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enmity is easy, flash spam is fine for trash groups, and all you need if your party is AoEing. I think its funny that OP didn't make the connection in his head between "MRD overpower spam" and "PLD flash spam"
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#12 Mar 12 2014 at 5:58 AM Rating: Decent
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I am not saying flash spam is the best hate generation, but that it is the easiest, and even as an i70 pld with i90 blm you can easily hold ae agro on 4+ mobs by simply spamming flash with 0 need to use emnity combos.

I know that riot blade (mp combo) gives 0 hate, but it makes you not need a bard to spam flash non stop. Tanks are not needed for their dmg, they are needed for the dmg they stop mobs from doing to the dd/healers, sure there are a few times (turn 4) where tank dmg can help if your dd is at the border line, but aside from that i cant think of too many instances where you NEED to mix in agro combo and cycle targets to hold hate. Mostly, because cycling targets implies your doing daily high level roulette/dungeon runs/ etc and none of that content has ever required me to do anything other than flash spam, and i never lose agro as an i 82 pld and i have grouped with some seriously hard core blm/brds. Bout the only time i will lose hate...if i venture into CT and Random_Tank_001 decides they want to tank and sit their doing their agro combo with shield oath on for some reason.

Like i said , you guys just try to make things way to hard....agro is so simple and easy, yes you can do it a more complicated way to get slightly better single target agro results, but ultimately you only have 1 ae agro tool, and you can spam it more than a war can spam any of their ae agro tools. Its boring, but its simple and easy and thanks to shield oath's buff months ago, its all you need to do to keep agro.
#13 Mar 12 2014 at 1:56 PM Rating: Good
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dustinfoley wrote:
Mostly, because cycling targets implies your doing daily high level roulette/dungeon runs/ etc and none of that content has ever required me to do anything other than flash spam, and i never lose agro as an i 82 pld and i have grouped with some seriously hard core blm/brds.


Outside of any DTR increases and the STR on the gear your iLVL doesn't mean much for Flash. It's reliance on WDMG is what makes it hit or miss in holding hate as it's one of the very few abilities in the game that increases in 'power' exponentially instead of linearly like everything else.

If you're a low level tank with an equivalent weapon? Flash seems useless because WDMG is too heavily factored into the equation.

If you're a high level tank with an i80, Zenith, Break, or especially Allagan Blade? You'd have to be incredibly bad to lose hate on packs.

While leveling up it's mostly inferior to Overpower but it is more than capable of getting the job done. Once you're 50 with a decent weapon (i80~) it becomes equal pretty much. The only thing that beats it with a good weapon is a combo-ed Rage as Fast or Savage isn't even close.
#14 Mar 13 2014 at 9:29 AM Rating: Excellent
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thanks for all the tips, flashing twice after pull then gain between switching to the next enemy to do an enmity combo is MUCH more effective... Im keeping hate 90% of the time instead of 50% of the time like before. I actually no longer feel like Im wasting a slot/space in the party anymore, went through all of quarn, totorak or haukke manor without losing hate once (except on boss fights where adds pop mid fight but those adds are usually so weak they die in a few hits anyway so i dont really NEED to tank those). thanks again all (i can only imagine this getting even easier when i get shield oath)
#15 Mar 21 2014 at 12:09 AM Rating: Good
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DuoMaxwellxx wrote:
thanks for all the tips, flashing twice after pull then gain between switching to the next enemy to do an enmity combo is MUCH more effective... Im keeping hate 90% of the time instead of 50% of the time like before. I actually no longer feel like Im wasting a slot/space in the party anymore, went through all of quarn, totorak or haukke manor without losing hate once (except on boss fights where adds pop mid fight but those adds are usually so weak they die in a few hits anyway so i dont really NEED to tank those). thanks again all (i can only imagine this getting even easier when i get shield oath)


Once you get shield oath, you'll notice that it'll be incredibly difficult to keep hate on mobs without it in the later dungeons. I can't really say what it's like to lvl gladiator/paladin up as a new character since I leveled it during 1.0, but once you hit lvl 50, make sure you mark your targets with a number, pull mob 1 with shield lob, as others have mentioned, and then use circle of scorn when the group gets within range. After that, I'd start the process like Krycis described. You'll almost need to do it this way because at higher ilvls, your party mates will be using AoE's that only get stronger and you'll have to juggle your main 3 weapon skill combo to make sure all mobs stay on you and not go after BLM's or healers. You can use flash if you notice that there's a bard or BLM with an itchy trigger finger, but most of the time that shouldn't be necessary.
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#16 Mar 21 2014 at 9:24 AM Rating: Decent
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yeah i noticed once i hit 50 and did AK for my relic quest I wasnt tanking half a swell as I have been from 35-49... but still better than I was doing before I got tips
#17 Mar 22 2014 at 7:59 AM Rating: Good
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DuoMaxwellxx wrote:
yeah i noticed once i hit 50 and did AK for my relic quest I wasnt tanking half a swell as I have been from 35-49... but still better than I was doing before I got tips

Keep in mind that all of the dungeons from 35-49 would have been syncing down the DPS and scaling their gear. If you partied with a ilvl 90 DPS in one of those dungeons, gear scaling would have a huge impact. If you party with that same ilvl 90 DPS in AK, you probably aren't going to hold hate off of him no matter what you try (until your gear is better).
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#18 Mar 22 2014 at 6:19 PM Rating: Good
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svlyons wrote:
DuoMaxwellxx wrote:
yeah i noticed once i hit 50 and did AK for my relic quest I wasnt tanking half a swell as I have been from 35-49... but still better than I was doing before I got tips

Keep in mind that all of the dungeons from 35-49 would have been syncing down the DPS and scaling their gear. If you partied with a ilvl 90 DPS in one of those dungeons, gear scaling would have a huge impact. If you party with that same ilvl 90 DPS in AK, you probably aren't going to hold hate off of him no matter what you try (until your gear is better).


If this is ever the case, that's when the importance of marking your mobs with kill order really becomes important. It's the only reason I would survive in dungeons when I had to start learning how to tank a couple months ago for my FC co static.
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