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#52 Feb 12 2016 at 4:48 PM Rating: Decent
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Oddly enough, I feel like XIV would probably benefit from server merge even more than XI would. The only thing keeping me from being convinced on that is server stability(or lack of), but it would definitely address some of the minor issues players complain about these days.

Server merge in XI sucked mostly for reasons that have long since been remedied. Competition by endgame LS for HNMs that are now forced spawns, competition by Dynamis LS for time slots and other similar issues. Having to change your name is a small price to pay for a large quality of life increase. I'm almost certain server merge would win in a poll asking if people would merge if they were forced to change name.
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Its personal preference and all, but yes we need to educate WoW players that this is OUR game, these are Characters and not Toons. Time to beat that into them one at a time.
#53 Feb 12 2016 at 5:55 PM Rating: Excellent
XIV doesn't need a serve merge. They just need to destroy Balmung and make all those players spread out to the smaller servers lol.

Edited, Feb 12th 2016 3:55pm by Thayos
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#54 Feb 12 2016 at 11:06 PM Rating: Good
They could probably merge a bunch of the newer servers together to be more like Balmung! Cause the data center to crash every time something new comes along! It's great!
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#55 Feb 18 2016 at 7:08 AM Rating: Decent
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I look at it from this point of view: The vast majority of us in FFXI were much younger and had less responsibilities. We were also playing in a different era. Years and years went by, we got older, some of us even went on to have a family, etc. Combined with FFXIV not being as involving as FFXI was, people simply moved on with their lives.

Edited, Feb 18th 2016 8:09am by TwilightSkye
#56 Feb 18 2016 at 9:46 AM Rating: Excellent
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Thayos wrote:
XIV doesn't need a serve merge. They just need to destroy Balmung and make all those players spread out to the smaller servers lol.

Edited, Feb 12th 2016 3:55pm by Thayos


Such hate!

I'd say they just need to declare Blamung the RP server and allow free transfers off. Doing it the other way won't work because most the housing market is cornered by RPers so they won't budge regardless.

Anyways, same thing that happened to this site happened to Game Trailers. It had a new market and thrived while it was new. Now every tom, ****, and jane wants a community site and official forums take the wind out of everyone's sales by being the main hub.

Has little to do with FFXIV's differences compared to the evolution of the medium at large.



Edited, Feb 18th 2016 10:50am by Hyrist
#57 Feb 18 2016 at 10:05 AM Rating: Decent
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Kao and Darq getting eighty-sixed and the ridiculous Google word filter did a lot more damage to Zam than anything that was mentioned in this thread. Cockmaster is okay but you have to break the filter to say poop.
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#58 Feb 18 2016 at 10:53 AM Rating: Excellent
It also doesn't help that most people here were entrenched in FFXI for years before XIV came out. We don't get much of the positive feedback from XIV-specific players to balance out the opinions of the jaded current/former XI players. As such, this isn't exactly the best online community for people who really enjoy the game.
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#59 Feb 18 2016 at 11:20 AM Rating: Decent
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Thayos wrote:
It also doesn't help that most people here were entrenched in FFXI for years before XIV came out. We don't get much of the positive feedback from XIV-specific players to balance out the opinions of the jaded current/former XI players. As such, this isn't exactly the best online community for people who really enjoy the game.


No community is ..really, since any criticism tend to be met with "GET OUT! GO AWAY! DON'T YOU DARE SAY MY FFXIV IS BAD IN ANY WAY EVEN THOUGH I CHOOSE TO IGNORE ALL OF ITS FAULTS BECAUSE I PLAY THE GAME ONLY 35 MINUTES A WEEK!" So in essence, you either have a community of "jaded people" or a community of people blind to the game's problems leading one to believe nothing is wrong with the game and anyone who says there is are "playing the wrong game and shouldn't be expecting base MMORPG design, for an MMORPG, released in a modern MMORPG era that every other MMORPG seems to perfectly be able to design said systems even if they were around since the 90s."

Since any trip to active XIV communities usually have a high lack of criticism or actual discussions on the game's actual state because they do their best to try to silence it. I mean, no matter how much one may like it, seeing that "XIV is the best MMO ever" despite missing crucial gameplay systems and have barely functioning one either means people truly haven't played MMOs before XIV or will literally eat up anything SE throws at them, unless it's XI of course, because XI was a "bad MMO" despite being able to implement systems Yoshi says is "impossible" for XIV to do.

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#60 Feb 18 2016 at 4:30 PM Rating: Excellent
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MMOs in general are becoming a little tired for those who have been around. While I don't finger XIV as the cause for that boredom, they're certainly not making any attempt to advance the genre. I guess we're only jaded in the sense that XIV is tired because not only did XIV not take what XI did right and improve on it, the mechanics borrowed from other games are basically just carbon copy or worse.

It would be like putting the same product in a different package and calling it 'new and improved'. People who had never tried it before might think it was better, but those who already tried the original would be underwhelmed(for good reason in my honest opinion).
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Rinsui wrote:
Only hips + boobs all day and hips + boobs all over my icecream

HaibaneRenmei wrote:
30 bucks is almost free

cocodojo wrote:
Its personal preference and all, but yes we need to educate WoW players that this is OUR game, these are Characters and not Toons. Time to beat that into them one at a time.
#61 Feb 18 2016 at 8:33 PM Rating: Decent
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XIV doesn't need a serve merge. They just need to destroy Balmung


plz no. Have you ever seen what happens to a bird when it gets sucked into an airplane engine?

Edited, Feb 18th 2016 9:35pm by Fynlar
#62 Feb 22 2016 at 6:59 PM Rating: Excellent
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Reddit is my forum of choice these days. It's much more active (they get more posts in an hour than Zam gets in a month), and I've never once been subjected to a ad with naked people doing nasty things to each other (the actual word to describe this gets filtered ironically enough). Bad threads get downvoted to oblivion whereas on Zam they're a karmic-draining vortex that drag on for weeks where the only winners are the admins and trolls. I like that the discussions are varied from artwork, to music, to screenshots, to gameplay improvement, whereas Zam mostly just dumps on FFXIV for being inadequate (criticisms are fine, but apart from the weekly accomplishment threads and Duo's inability to use Google to find answers to his questions, that's all we seem to talk about).

Like Zam and unlike the official forums, you can honestly criticize FFXIV on Reddit without reprisal. They even have an official SE representative who frequents there to get the honest pulse of the community. They have strict rules against witch hunts which the admins actively monitor for so you don't get the insane drama that Killing Ifrit used to carry for FFXI. It's not perfect, but Reddit is the best place for FFXIV discussion around.

Edited, Feb 22nd 2016 8:02pm by Xoie
#63 Feb 24 2016 at 11:49 AM Rating: Decent
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FilthMcNasty wrote:
MMOs in general are becoming a little tired for those who have been around. While I don't finger XIV as the cause for that boredom, they're certainly not making any attempt to advance the genre. I guess we're only jaded in the sense that XIV is tired because not only did XIV not take what XI did right and improve on it, the mechanics borrowed from other games are basically just carbon copy or worse.

It would be like putting the same product in a different package and calling it 'new and improved'. People who had never tried it before might think it was better, but those who already tried the original would be underwhelmed(for good reason in my honest opinion).


Well I tend to agree with this, FFXIV is still very popular so they are doing something right. It has slowed some but it still does not feel like much. It seems to have a huge turn over because almost everyone I started playing with is gone.
I have not been playing much but the population does not seem to be changing to much when I do get on.
I do see people not doing much though, they just hang around in the gowns and stuff and sit in circles or dance.
I think glamour is really big in this game..
I was planing rainbow six the other day with some old friends from my old xbox clan.
One goes is FFXIV that game where all the dudes play females and play dress up like barbie dolls.
While I do not totally agree with that, I play a male and really do not care to much about glamour.

It is interesting to hear what others hear about FFXIV that have not played it. You hear things like it is a dumbed down version of FFXI for players who like no challenge to it is nothing but WOW with FF characters.Really the game has a bad reputation from those who do not play it.

Still have to make a decision soon because the xbox will be dropped soon.. Still have not heard a date. So we have to decide do we continue with FFXI or comeback to FFXIV. FFXI just is more fun than FFXIV but it could so benefit from a major upgrade. When we do still pick up FFXIV it just feels and looks so much better, well till we start playing it and find out how repetitive a game it is.





Edited, Feb 24th 2016 12:57pm by Nashred
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#64 Feb 24 2016 at 12:02 PM Rating: Decent
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Oh just on the actual main topic.
The ZAM FC fell apart pretty much. Most have left the game or rarely get on and allot of them posted here.
It still exist but is very small.
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#65 Feb 25 2016 at 10:07 AM Rating: Good
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Nashred wrote:
Makes veterans fell like why bother, We have been playing since launch and someone can catch up in several months. Also the reason it does not bother us to take off and play FFXI for several months. We know we can catch up in a week.


^ This. The game is designed so you can jump in and get to top tier in a few weeks max. And all of the hours the rest of us spent to get our hard earned gear is washed into the toilet as new people can step in six months later and obtain it through easy mode.

I understand that giving new players a leg up helps the game remain sustainable, but there really should be more reward for longevity. Use the stat tracking system to give me real, useful (not just glamour or title) rewards for my obscenely high number of enemies killed, or dungeons finished. Something....
#66 Feb 25 2016 at 10:21 AM Rating: Decent
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Use the stat tracking system to give me real, useful (not just glamour or title) rewards for my obscenely high number of enemies killed, or dungeons finished. Something....


The problem with that, of course, is that it creates a system where a new player is incapable of ever catching up.

Would you pick up a 5-year old game, intending to play it seriously, if you knew you could NEVER catch up to the power level of the established players?
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#67 Feb 25 2016 at 10:58 AM Rating: Decent
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Archmage Callinon wrote:
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Use the stat tracking system to give me real, useful (not just glamour or title) rewards for my obscenely high number of enemies killed, or dungeons finished. Something....


The problem with that, of course, is that it creates a system where a new player is incapable of ever catching up.

Would you pick up a 5-year old game, intending to play it seriously, if you knew you could NEVER catch up to the power level of the established players?


Well, yes. It was never a problem to do this prior to the "everyone has to be equal" generation of gamers and gaming. I picked up numerous MMOs knowing this and I picked up numerous RTS like Warcraft III, Starcraft and C&C knowing I'll never be able to (or had the drive to) play on the competitive level and will always be a "noob" in terms of when I joined.

When it comes to MMOs specifically you're not honestly supposed to be able to pick up a game that's been out for 6 years and damn near instantly catch up to the same level and position as someone who's played it seriously and poured in hours upon years of work to get where they are. It makes the game feel shallow. Even if people try to throw the "oh well drop rates!" when trying to argue against old MMOs, that simply isn't the case, it's just the content remained relevant longer than 5 weeks - 2+ months (whatever the particular MMO's update cycle is.) If I join FFXIV now, ignoring the Main Scenario gate on Heavensward content, I can catch up to someone who's been playing since launch of ARR in a week, 2 weeks at best, nevermind the people who played since 1.0. While in this game it's not a huge deal because not only are the items boring as sin, but the main focus is glamour rather than content, if this was any other MMO with real itemization, actual stats on gear and not afraid to reward people based on time and effort, it wouldn't last long at all because people will be bored pretty quickly. It wouldn't be a problem is this game has interesting gear and brought back rewarding people for their hard work that lasted.

The relic quest was a poor attempt at trying to keep the grinds equal while ignoring that one grind requires actual skill (clearing Savage) and the other is just a pointless excuse to keep us running outdated content, much like many of the CURRENT new grinds. That's the biggest difference between this game and many other MMOs, if you want us to do old content, give us a new version of it, offer tiers of the content and match the rewards like even XI does these days.

So yes..I would join this game 5 years later even if I had to work my way up and not immediately reach the top, that was the whole appeal of an MMO to begin with.
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#68 Feb 25 2016 at 11:28 AM Rating: Excellent
I'll just say what I've said numerous times already... FFXIV is not a great game for true hardcore players. It's a game made mostly for casual and midcore players. It's not meant to be a game to sink countless of hours into and be forever distanced from the pack. It wasn't built that way, and it will never be changed to be that way.

I am this game's target audience. I'm in my mid-30s, I work a full-time job, I have family and social obligations, and I do my housework (and work on myself) before logging in. And I'll never need to worry about the game's newest content being out of reach. I love it!

I agree there are many people who would still play an older-style game that's far more horizontal. But FFXIV's success has shown there are plenty of people like me who enjoy this game's structure, too.

As for Valk's question... that's a great topic with no simple answer.

I've said before that this game should make "exotic" gear pieces that are strong enough to be viable for two or three times longer than the average gear piece. What if new exotic pieces were even adjusted to be top-tier throughout an entire expansion cycle? And the catch would be you could only equip one at a time, which would keep them from being game-breaking. Yet if they were designed with enough diversity, then there would be incentives to collect various pieces.

Other than that, exclusive rewards that aren't eventually reduced to glamor pieces would include special mounts, house furnishings... ??? Not sure what else. Again, going back to the design concepts of this game, any piece of gear is going to eventually become obsolete, and gear rewards become even more pointless for hardcore players who blaze through content and then take long breaks.

Edited, Feb 25th 2016 9:32am by Thayos

Edited, Feb 25th 2016 9:34am by Thayos
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#69 Feb 25 2016 at 11:45 AM Rating: Good
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I've said before that this game should make "exotic" gear pieces that are strong enough to be viable for two or three times longer than the average gear piece. What if new exotic pieces were even adjusted to be top-tier throughout an entire expansion cycle? And the catch would be you could only equip one at a time, which would keep them from being game-breaking. Yet if they were designed with enough diversity, then there would be incentives to collect various pieces.


Actually Legion is about to do something like that with world drop legendaries that scale up over time. So we'll get to see how that works out.

Quote:
When it comes to MMOs specifically you're not honestly supposed to be able to pick up a game that's been out for 6 years and **** near instantly catch up to the same level and position as someone who's played it seriously and poured in hours upon years of work to get where they are.


I didn't say instantly. I said that under the concept Valk proposed, a new player could NEVER catch up. Not just that it'd be slow, it'd be impossible assuming that at least some corps of established players continue playing through the game's lifecycle (and there will always be such a group in every game).
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#70 Feb 25 2016 at 12:17 PM Rating: Excellent
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When it comes to MMOs specifically you're not honestly supposed to be able to pick up a game that's been out for 6 years and **** near instantly catch up to the same level and position as someone who's played it seriously and poured in hours upon years of work to get where they are.


It's no longer valid to view MMOs through such a narrow lens.

FFXIV is a game that's designed to do exactly what you said isn't supposed to happen. But it is happening, and the game is successful. So you can't really say that a deliberately designed game that's appealing to its intended target audience shouldn't be happening. It is happening, and it is an MMO. It's just a different kind of MMO.

Edited, Feb 25th 2016 10:17am by Thayos
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#71 Feb 25 2016 at 1:10 PM Rating: Decent
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You also have to take into consideration they played on the fact WoW was in a slump, if this game was released at any other time, especially while WoW was the king, it would have fallen flat. There's far too many broken systems and design concepts for this game to have been successful at any other time. It's missing far too many features. It's not a "narrow lense", it's called the "god mode syndrome" in Japan. XIV ARR/HW is basically like playing an MMORPG on a private server - It's fun at first to do everything and get everything you want with little work and little time invested..but overall, you'll get bored pretty quickly.

Outside of the bubble, XIV isn't viewed in as high of a standard as the people who barely play the game as is (thus everything remains "fresh" for them) - So it has nothing to do with "hardcore" or casual players, not sure why you, or anyone, continues to hang onto the term "hardcore" whenever something isn't handed to you. Even the most basic F2P MMO has better itemization and systems than XIV does, you can't consider those "Hardcore" either, especially considering they have cash shops for boosting everything from exp to item drop rates, or to flatout bypass in-game restrictions. Seriously: This remains one of the only "modern" MMOs that lack content tiers and the fact people accept the excuses SE gives us speaks volumes that people are simply content with ANYTHING thrown at them.

When even SE releases reports stating they have to basically double their efforts in order to recoup the losses XIV cost them between HW launch and November, it's really, really hard to defend that as "successful."

The relaunch was a success but the honeymoon period is over, you can't just shrug off your established playerbase, because I've said it before and I'll say it again: If your sole focus is new players and players who don't even play MMOs at all (as yoshi stated), this game has a horrendous lack of sustainability in content systems DESIGNED for that playergap.

Heck, even the "practice" content has issues: https://bucket.bluegartr.com/9bdf77f3237aedd86de01997836132c1.jpg Someone linked this in Linkshell and this should not be happening in a modern MMORPG. At all. This isn't even a testimate of system limitations. Not PS3/PS4 limitations, but actual core system limitation. The same limitations that prevents them from increasing our inventories but can readily sell us infinite retainers as an alternative.


Edited, Feb 25th 2016 11:33am by Theonehio
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#72 Feb 25 2016 at 1:19 PM Rating: Excellent
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Archmage Callinon wrote:
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I've said before that this game should make "exotic" gear pieces that are strong enough to be viable for two or three times longer than the average gear piece. What if new exotic pieces were even adjusted to be top-tier throughout an entire expansion cycle? And the catch would be you could only equip one at a time, which would keep them from being game-breaking. Yet if they were designed with enough diversity, then there would be incentives to collect various pieces.


Actually Legion is about to do something like that with world drop legendaries that scale up over time. So we'll get to see how that works out.

We have already seen how it played out as WoD had similar legendary items. I cared more about the story connected to it rather than the actual gear. I'd assume that most people just spammed their way through it like most other quests and just took it for the ilvl boost. As with anything else, it turns out to be a mandatory item that players get because it's expected rather than for flavor or diversity.

It was easy to fall behind in XI but I don't play it because I want to stay current, I play it because I enjoy it. People don't quit XIV because they know they can catch up easily, they quit because they run out of things to do or don't enjoy what they're presented as choices to do.




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Rinsui wrote:
Only hips + boobs all day and hips + boobs all over my icecream

HaibaneRenmei wrote:
30 bucks is almost free

cocodojo wrote:
Its personal preference and all, but yes we need to educate WoW players that this is OUR game, these are Characters and not Toons. Time to beat that into them one at a time.
#73 Feb 25 2016 at 1:37 PM Rating: Good
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We have already seen how it played out as WoD had similar legendary items. I cared more about the story connected to it rather than the actual gear. I'd assume that most people just spammed their way through it like most other quests and just took it for the ilvl boost. As with anything else, it turns out to be a mandatory item that players get because it's expected rather than for flavor or diversity.


Sort of. The WoD and MoP legendaries more closely resemble the ARR and HW relic weapons. A piece of gear that is built on over time through some kind of grind. The Legion legendaries are a little different since they aren't built, they're found, and scale up over time as gear improves across the expansion.
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#74 Feb 25 2016 at 1:39 PM Rating: Excellent
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You also have to take into consideration they played on the fact WoW was in a slump, if this game was released at any other time, especially while WoW was the king, it would have fallen flat. There's far too many broken systems and design concepts for this game to have been successful at any other time. It's missing far too many features.


WoW isn't really in a slump. It's just not growing anymore (and it's slowly losing players). It's an old game, and people generally don't like to start playing old games. Also, WoW came along at just the right time to accomplish what it did. I have a hard time believing that a game like WoW will ever happen again, especially given how the nature of gaming has changed. People are much less likely to focus completely on one game now; most people play several games with less engagement.

So no, I don't agree with you. If ARR launched this year, it would be just as successful. If it launched in two years, or five years, it would be just as successful. It has the Final Fantasy brand recognition to pull people in, and it does enough stuff right to keep people subscribing.

Nobody is making excuses for SE. We're just playing the game and having fun.

Edited, Feb 25th 2016 11:40am by Thayos
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#75 Feb 25 2016 at 1:46 PM Rating: Decent
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FilthMcNasty wrote:
Archmage Callinon wrote:
Quote:
I've said before that this game should make "exotic" gear pieces that are strong enough to be viable for two or three times longer than the average gear piece. What if new exotic pieces were even adjusted to be top-tier throughout an entire expansion cycle? And the catch would be you could only equip one at a time, which would keep them from being game-breaking. Yet if they were designed with enough diversity, then there would be incentives to collect various pieces.


Actually Legion is about to do something like that with world drop legendaries that scale up over time. So we'll get to see how that works out.

We have already seen how it played out as WoD had similar legendary items. I cared more about the story connected to it rather than the actual gear. I'd assume that most people just spammed their way through it like most other quests and just took it for the ilvl boost. As with anything else, it turns out to be a mandatory item that players get because it's expected rather than for flavor or diversity.

It was easy to fall behind in XI but I don't play it because I want to stay current, I play it because I enjoy it. People don't quit XIV because they know they can catch up easily, they quit because they run out of things to do or don't enjoy what they're presented as choices to do.






This also. This is why I said if the game was properly designed, XIV would be perfect. They just have to..realize it's not JUST new players they need to cater to.

Thayos wrote:
Quote:
You also have to take into consideration they played on the fact WoW was in a slump, if this game was released at any other time, especially while WoW was the king, it would have fallen flat. There's far too many broken systems and design concepts for this game to have been successful at any other time. It's missing far too many features.


WoW isn't really in a slump. It's just not growing anymore (and it's slowly losing players).


I keep up with WoW, especially since my cousin still plays it - Between 2011-2014 it was indeed in a slump, 2013 being the key year, especially when ARR Launched. That is what I mean by they took advantage of the fact WoW was in a slump. It's not "slowly" losing players, unless you consider someone losing an arm and leg as "slowly bleeding out."

Quote:
Nobody is making excuses for SE. We're just playing the game and having fun.


No, SE themselves are making the excuses, which shouldn't be the case. The game is 3 years old and there's still plenty of problems that doesn't even exist in XI, which is significantly older.

Quote:
If ARR launched this year, it would be just as successful. If it launched in two years, or five years, it would be just as successful. It has the Final Fantasy brand recognition to pull people in, and it does enough stuff right to keep people subscribing.


See, the same argument got made with XI: "XI is only successful because it was titled Final Fantasy." Which means, you're basically saying XIV is only successful because it's title Final Fantasy, which I agree with you.

When we're talking about ARR launch, I strictly mean, A Realm Reborn - Not counting ANY systems or content revamped from 1.0-1.23, strictly 2.0 content. It would have struggled because the game had significant server side flaws, as in the timing in updating our positions - it was higher than any other online game, ever. 3 seconds? That's never even been the case in older MMOs even without the need for movement. This is what I mean that people are far more accepting when it comes to XIV, but if it was released when MMOs got steam? Look at ANY MMO that had even LESS problems and MORE content than XIV ARR (2.0 launch) flatout failing.

Edited, Feb 25th 2016 12:05pm by Theonehio
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#76 Feb 25 2016 at 2:01 PM Rating: Excellent
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They just have to..realize it's not JUST new players they need to cater to.


The XIV dev team doesn't just cater to new players. It also caters to ongoing players who enjoy the game as it has been designed. The dev team has been incredibly forthright and consistent regarding its presentation of the game, and I hope that doesn't change.

The dev team doesn't do such a good job catering to people who tried but didn't like the type of game this is. But that's kind of common sense.

Hio, I'm glad you enjoy FFXIV enough to continue paying and playing. It's clear now that you DO like the game, or you wouldn't still be an active player. Clearly, there are players like you and Valk who would be even happier if some things were different. But there are also many players such as myself (and pretty much everyone in my FC) who are thankful for the game being as it is now. I think you really need to step back and see how gaming audiences have changed. And that's not to say gamers are completely different, but segments of the old-school market have definitely broken off and evolved. FFXIV capitalizes strongly on a segment of that market as evidenced by being the only recently release P2P game with enough success to maintain its model.


Edited, Feb 25th 2016 12:16pm by Thayos
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