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Should 4.x Get a Level Cap Increase?Follow

#52 May 06 2016 at 7:21 PM Rating: Good
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Archmage Callinon wrote:
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Yeah, I think this is going to be the biggest problem unless 4.0 is completely different.


I've tried asking Nashred this question before and had no success with an answer, so I'll try asking you: different how? In what way would an expansion need to be different from the game it's expanding in order for it to be "something new?" No snark here, I really want to know what you think.


Just something other than the usual tome grind + primal (or whatever they're going to call the next round of primals/eikon battles) - Take for example the numerous augment systems in XI. Reward a set of gear you can constantly upgrade through that initial cycle rather than offer 3-4 sets of armors with 1 set tied behind a monthly progression point to keep us busy. Heck, it's well accepted the Alluvion+ augment systems in XI were some of the best because it wasn't heavily reliant on RNG and it was based on the route you chose first and foremost. In a game like XIV, having "progression routes" for your 4.0 Armor/Weapon is even more relevant than it is in XI. That way you can not only allow players to build the armor of THEIR choosing, but it also breaks the reliance on weekly tomes to draw appeal to actually doing roulettes/dungeons they release because after the initial run of a dungeon it's almost guaranteed you're not running it of free will unless you ABSOLUTELY love the dungeon design that much you don't mind the outdated gear it drops.

Speaking of - Make dungeon drops relevant again and make them actually more..apart of the world, so they serve more of a purpose to not just the story/lore but actually having multiple routes that serves multiple purposes, since I don't know many if at all any players who run the dungeons once their tomes are capped for the week. There's literally no reason other than poor planning or trying to keep rushed balance in tack to not have dungeon gear be a way to gear up players and offer even some progression to an extent where if you want to go above and beyond THEN you challenge Midas Savage.

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I'm not sure that's because of different standards so much as rushed or many times haphazard development of a localized game. I'd love more variety in the MMO space and Korea and China pump them out like some kind of MMO-making factory..country...region...thing...I got nothin. But even when they create a good game, the localization tends to fall flat on its face when it's brought to the west (did you see Blade and Soul's tooltips when they launched in the US? Hoo boy). So maybe everyone could try just a bit harder there and try making a good game instead of a cash in on hype.


Yeah. mostly mean in regards to how a "big grind" isn't as looked down upon in Asia compared to NA/EU these days, which is a big part Sega will never bring PSO2 out west because grind games are basically deemed "outdated." Poor localization doesn't help at all either.

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Why NOT raise the level cap? Does raising the level cap preclude development of other systems? Does raising the level cap stifle innovation in some way?


That's the thing - Normally it doesn't, but with XIV it seems to because it's stated raising level cap is more for adding abilities than anything since everyone will be on "equal footing" instead of job a getting new abilities and job b not getting anything and job c only getting 1 and so on. So raising it to 70 means everyone will get about 6 new abilities if they keep current system and we'll be in the same spot as Heavensward launch in terms of design. If they keep the level cap, they can just build around it and readjust the balance before making another raise, so that way when they raise it again the game will already have evolved in such a way that it's actually able to offer varied content. 2.0 style overhaul won't happen, but since they said 3.5 is when they're overhauling stats again (at least Parry and Det again) that's the perfect chance to dump "legacy items" in Deep Dungeon, see the player feedback and incorporate more varied itemization that allows for more progression content since quite frankly, doing 3 content systems for a body with STR+131/141/151 just quite frankly gets old and basically pointless at this point in time. So if the high tier content offers more "enhancing" gear and the lower tiers build up towards it, that's only something that can be done during an expansion rather than in patch cycle and if they simply raise the level cap, it's more than likely going to follow the same format as Heavensward unless they pull out an absolute shocking surprise, since 3.0 was supposed to be "very different" from 2.x, as 2.x was playing it safe being a relaunch.
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#53 May 06 2016 at 8:23 PM Rating: Good
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I feel like "people aren't looking for/don't like difficulty" type comments are somewhat loaded, as is lacks context in what exactly one finds difficult. I mean, we've beaten to death around here that you've got plenty of people who don't raid because their schedules don't mesh reliably enough. Stuff like class bias is also a thing, where being an unpopular job can make getting things done harder. Plus there's the whole, ********** up one mechanic and your whole group fails!" type of play that's generally frowned upon, too. And I'd put that more in the realm of lag or poor telegraphy, including the use of add-ons like in other MMOs. The last factor is simply patience, and not everyone has it. We can't control that. At best, content shouldn't be made where ragequitting seems more common than not.

In context with some of my hypothetical systems, it also wouldn't be like I'd be sending players out into the field without any form of instruction on how things work. While not an MMO, I think a game that does that and players suffer for it would be Path of Exile. Some people laud it as a positive because it's not "hand holding" or all the usual internet tough guy rhetoric, but I see it more as someone getting like 10+ hours into a character only to realize they totally screwed up their build and full resets aren't free. When you feel you're forced to make such a giant restart as the result of an innocent mistake, you're not building a good game environment. Yet, it also tries to thrive on limiting resources available to the player, which is something I can't get behind, either.

The specifics of what I would and wouldn't do would further necessitate some knowledge of the game world I'd intended to create, but the long and short of it is a player would start with their weapon of choice, a base skill, and the introductory spell for whatever element they chose to be their affinity. They would be told that they could be grown, evolved, modified, and combined with adequate use/experience. Something I hadn't mentioned until now would also be an exploration/city building mechanic that would play a pivotal role in improving yourself and the NPC allies you hire/train. If they needed to know more, there would've been help files accessible from anywhere, or if we wanted to maintain an in-character flavor, things like libraries and training arenas could also be a thing.

Basically, the last thing I'd do is have some sort of chargen process then just be, "Okay, go save the world!" Think a bit too many MMOs do that, and that's not just me criticizing the inability for players to be more the villain.
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#54 May 06 2016 at 8:34 PM Rating: Decent
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Seriha wrote:
I feel like "people aren't looking for/don't like difficulty" type comments are somewhat loaded.


All it takes is looking at even the easier content SE nerfed because of complaints of it being "too hard". Amdapor Keep got the brunt of the nerf bat back in the day.
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#55 May 07 2016 at 6:26 AM Rating: Good
Theonehio wrote:
Seriha wrote:
I feel like "people aren't looking for/don't like difficulty" type comments are somewhat loaded.


All it takes is looking at even the easier content SE nerfed because of complaints of it being "too hard". Amdapor Keep got the brunt of the nerf bat back in the day.


Ya, that's the sad part, when minor difficulty gets nerfed...Pharos Sirius, Steps of Faith. Steps of Faith even had "different mechanics" yet not different since you used cannons vs wyverns before. No, people just wouldn't do it, and you'd have one guy running around like an idiot trying to do everything. Thing with Steps of Faith, you could actually recover from deaths in that fight, provided people stuck to the main elements of the fight.

How should 4.0 change? I'm not sure, I'm not a developer or game director. That's why we pay them to figure this stuff out. Sure the massive maps and flying were a great addition to Heavensward, but the overall gameplay design never changed. It was still basic dungeons, primals and a very linear end game in Savage. That being said, if they knew how to change it up, they would have by now. It's been the same thing since 2.0 and they seem content on keeping it that way.

I had told my buddies that once I was done the main story, if nothing else changed, I was done. I will absolutely buy the next expansion simply because HWs story was fun, and seeing the new areas was great. For the price tag, it was more hours than your average single player game, and it will be the same again I'm sure.
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#56 May 07 2016 at 9:27 PM Rating: Decent
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So, not to be that guy, but I picked up ESO (12 bucks from some french site called GloryProfit, which set off alarms at my bank's fraud detection dept, but w/e got the game for cheap), and this game is really making strides towards the kind of MMO i want to play. The amount of available customization in builds, almost right right off the bat, is actually daunting.

I'm finding myself being rewarded for exploring the open world, which is a big deal for me. The other day i was just grinding(actually a fun activity in this game due to the more tactical and skill based combat) on some mobs and a little portal opened up near me and spawned a sort of elite mob that was tough to take down, but when i won, i got a cool new piece of blue armor. Stuff like that is neat. Or all the lorebooks and skill stones scattered all over the world. Or how I was able to just stroll right into a queueable dungeon and get myself killed trying to solo it. Little things like that are so easy to add to a game.
Not to mention the quests tend to be a bit more engaging and diverse (they're also not in hubs) than most MMO fare.


If only the whole damned thing came with an optional Final Fantasy re-skin.
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#57 May 07 2016 at 9:28 PM Rating: Decent
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zam, keeping it real double post style

Edited, May 8th 2016 12:15am by Llester
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#58 May 07 2016 at 10:41 PM Rating: Decent
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Llester wrote:
So, not to be that guy, but I picked up ESO (12 bucks from some french site called GloryProfit, which set off alarms at my bank's fraud detection dept, but w/e got the game for cheap), and this game is really making strides towards the kind of MMO i want to play. The amount of available customization in builds, almost right right off the bat, is actually daunting.

I'm finding myself being rewarded for exploring the open world, which is a big deal for me. The other day i was just grinding(actually a fun activity in this game due to the more tactical and skill based combat) on some mobs and a little portal opened up near me and spawned a sort of elite mob that was tough to take down, but when i won, i got a cool new piece of blue armor. Stuff like that is neat. Or all the lorebooks and skill stones scattered all over the world. Or how I was able to just stroll right into a queueable dungeon and get myself killed trying to solo it. Little things like that are so easy to add to a game.
Not to mention the quests tend to be a bit more engaging and diverse (they're also not in hubs) than most MMO fare.


If only the whole damned thing came with an optional Final Fantasy re-skin.

I play ESO when I am not playing Tera,GW2, or XIV. One thing I like about skyshards and lorebooks is I actually get some progression on my character rather than an achievement. Dolmens are like fate and dynamic events, I think GW2 does this better than XIV because they are dynamic and branching and XIV does it better than ESO because they are more of them with a little bit of story. Then we have the group combos stuff. I think GW2 does this best because there are setups and finishers that require positioning. I like ESO synergy second because you can interact off a skill someone else did but it is simpler than GW2. I don't like LB in XIV because it doesn't require group synergy in the moment like the previous two. I like FFXI renkai more than all three games in this category.

ESO has a champion point system that is similar to merits except it is account wide. I don't know how I feel about that. If I want my progress to be faster across alts I suppose that is a good thing. But in a game with only 4 starting classes and 3 nation main story to cap, I think I would prefer it being character locked if I didn't have to grind through the same stories. At least they offer a new game plus option, after your first character progresses you can't even redo old main or sidequest on the same character with different jobs in XIV. They do have this thing called veteran ranks which is sort of like ilvl currently but it is getting axed when Dark Brotherhood dlc releases.

I think our of all these games even though XIV agitates me with the vertical progression and jump rope antics. It has the most re-playability out of the others when playing new characters because the story is so long and varies depending on what job you play. If it isn't a game you want to play and call home aka you are not an mmo hoppers then your initial surge is awesome but subsequent playthroughs are stale because it is so straightforward and light on experimentation. I am still waiting for a game to be the one I spend a majority of my time in. That type of game is commonly made anymore. The closest inkling of that I have is possibly Pantheon. But I will enjoy all these games for what they are, breadth over depth with ESO being the main depth mechanics wise, not necessarily by difficulty when I say that.

Was that delve you strolled into or an actual dungeon? Because delves are dungeon type content built for solo but can be grouped while normal dungeons are built for group but can be soloed.
#59 May 07 2016 at 11:27 PM Rating: Decent
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It was banished cells that i wandered into, so group dungeon. Im super low level still, although I think that doesn't matter for areas like Wrothgar/Cyrodill? Still not sure how that works and haven't had time to explore outside of the first zone, I assume there's a bolster mechanic similar to GW2.

I know i have my 'shiny new thing' glasses on, so everything in this game appears to be awesome to me (except how it can be annoyingly difficult to jump in a straight line with the weird offset 3rd person cam), but i objectively can say that they're at least trying to pull off the type of content that I look for.

I gave GW2 a solid try when it launched, and I liked it a lot, but for some reason it didn't hold my interest for very long, even though on paperits right up my alley. A lot of it was the floaty feel to the characters combined with a story that didn't engage me. /shrug
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#60 May 08 2016 at 1:23 AM Rating: Good
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GW2 couldn't really keep me because the endgame was either PvP or spamming dungeons, and eventually fractals. There was a point where I'd explored 100% everything, which included annoying PvP locations/vistas, but that was ages and ages ago. Simply chasing zone events didn't really feel as rewarding as they did in Rift and I kinda felt the legendary weapon process was a farce. But yeah, the open world shriveled pretty hard once I'd explored everything and crafted up an orange set.

ESO is something I got a while ago, but for whatever reason I dropped it after finishing the introductory area. Might've just gotten too busy with other things at the time.
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#61 May 08 2016 at 7:19 AM Rating: Decent
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Llester wrote:
It was banished cells that i wandered into, so group dungeon. Im super low level still, although I think that doesn't matter for areas like Wrothgar/Cyrodill? Still not sure how that works and haven't had time to explore outside of the first zone, I assume there's a bolster mechanic similar to GW2.

I know i have my 'shiny new thing' glasses on, so everything in this game appears to be awesome to me (except how it can be annoyingly difficult to jump in a straight line with the weird offset 3rd person cam), but i objectively can say that they're at least trying to pull off the type of content that I look for.

I gave GW2 a solid try when it launched, and I liked it a lot, but for some reason it didn't hold my interest for very long, even though on paperits right up my alley. A lot of it was the floaty feel to the characters combined with a story that didn't engage me. /shrug

I don't pvp in ESO but I think you can go into Cyrodil at level 10.

Well I don't mean to insinuate anything negative, ESO is a rather good game. Don't let anything I say drip in or it might color your fresh perception. Sometimes that shiny new thing whether it's oblivious or not is a good thing. Helps you enjoy things for what they are rather than what they should be or could be.

ESO does have some damn good side quest writing. My main issue is no matter how good writing is, if there is a truck load of it, I get over-saturated by it and start skipping through cutscenes or dialogue especially in side quests. I consider over saturation with quest busy work, just like I considered harvesting in Dragon Age Inquisition busy work. I love to care about a story or world but I don't want to hear every single story ever told.

Edited, May 8th 2016 10:49am by sandpark
#62 May 09 2016 at 4:54 PM Rating: Good
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yeah i'm not too concerned with writing quality, i'm more interested in the design of the quests, and ESO has done a great job in keeping it as fresh and as engaging as side quests can be imo. You can tell time was spent on diversifying sidequests so they aren't just copy pastes of a couple quest-templates.

Also I appreciate things like what happened to me last night. I stumbled upon a cave while exploring, and I almost didn't go in, thinking "well I don't have a quest that takes me here; I should just come back when I find the quest so I'm not wasting time". I ended up entering the cave anyway and ofc finding a bunch of loot and a skyshard, but also a lost familiar that needed to be returned to the mage's guild. So the designers planned on explorer type players finding this quest in the cave instead of at some hub that then takes them to the cave.

Its not innovative at all (its standard bethesda quest design), but I'm just so used to XIV's rigid quest system, and this feels more organic.
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#63 May 09 2016 at 5:07 PM Rating: Excellent
Is ESO fun to play as essentially a single-player game with other people around?

I have no desire to start another MMO, but I do enjoy Elder Scrolls and the core game of ESO is on sale (or was, anyway) for like $20 at Target.
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#64 May 09 2016 at 6:28 PM Rating: Decent
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Thayos wrote:
Is ESO fun to play as essentially a single-player game with other people around?



yes, it is absolutely perfect for that style of play imo.

I can't speak for the endgame, but the leveling experience is basically Skyrim with other people around you. ZOS has gone with heavy phasing in the open world rather than the more popular (and imo less fun) instancing.
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#65 May 09 2016 at 8:12 PM Rating: Decent
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Thayos wrote:
Is ESO fun to play as essentially a single-player game with other people around?

I have no desire to start another MMO, but I do enjoy Elder Scrolls and the core game of ESO is on sale (or was, anyway) for like $20 at Target.

I play duo and the leveling experience is exactly like a traditional Elder Scrolls if you drift away from 12 man trials. Pick one of four classes. Dragonknight(Warrior), Nightblade(Thief),Sorceror(Blm or WHM), Templar(Paladin). You can equip any armor or weapon regardless of what class you picked but class,guilds, and races do have unique traits. Sticking to a style set of armor is better but you don't have to gear to strict stuff unless you live and die in duty finder. Quest markers are above npc head but they are not on map. You must stumble into them except for the main story. Skyhards are hidden from everywhere but your compass. Lorebooks are not marked in any way. Everything is minimalist in the standard version and console versions for a thing called immersion. Not even battle systems like xp bars or battle info show up in UI most of the time. There is no standard auction house.

If you are not the type to like exploring, getting lost, or experimenting then you should look into addons on pc and stay away from console. I recommend the addons skyshards, lorebooks, FTP combat mods, wykyyd outfitter, autoloot,and a minimap addon as minimum if you want the game to feel more like a traditional modern mmo. For the people who are that kind of gamer(explorer/tinkerer), this game is heaven.

It's B2P. Just try it for base price and play it sparingly and it won't replace your current main mmos. This and GW2 probably have the best pay models besides P2P games and I wish more games would allow you to play some for the base price and just lock elder game in DLC,expansions. One last thing, many players but not all have issues with performance,lag, and latency issues. So if this does apply to you and you get irritated fast by that kind of stuff. It might not be your system just the way the game is. Good game overall.

Edited, May 9th 2016 10:16pm by sandpark

Edited, May 9th 2016 10:17pm by sandpark
#66 May 12 2016 at 12:06 AM Rating: Decent
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I remember looking into ESO a few months back after a long run in Skyrim. What you guys are describing is basically what I've been craving for in an MMO so I met check it out.
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#67 May 12 2016 at 12:19 AM Rating: Excellent
Finally got Dragon Age Inquisition a couple weeks ago, but haven't had enough time to sit and play it yet. Beven upping my running mileage and watching the NBA playoffs. Damn you, sports!
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#68 May 12 2016 at 1:56 AM Rating: Decent
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Yeah, that's another one I've been meaning to check out. DA: Origins was one of my favorite RPGs in years but DA2 was trash so I wasn't too hyped about Inquisition.
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#69 May 12 2016 at 2:05 AM Rating: Decent
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BrokenFox wrote:
Yeah, that's another one I've been meaning to check out. DA: Origins was one of my favorite RPGs in years but DA2 was trash so I wasn't too hyped about Inquisition.

Origins still the best one story wise and deep content, DA2 was alright, and I think DAI has the best combat with controller and love the open world, skyhaven, and zones were fantastic, but the harvesting is just a big chore. I think you will like ESO if you like Skyrim or Oblivion.
#70 May 12 2016 at 7:33 AM Rating: Decent
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Yep, while I don't like ESO much since I don't like ES that much, it captures the ES games and put it into an online environment, kind of like how XI captured "FF" and put it online basically. That's why my main gripes with XIV falls with the "feel" of it.
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#71 May 12 2016 at 9:47 AM Rating: Good
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Theonehio wrote:
Yep, while I don't like ESO much since I don't like ES that much, it captures the ES games and put it into an online environment, kind of like how XI captured "FF" and put it online basically. That's why my main gripes with XIV falls with the "feel" of it.

Alright I am going to bite.

How is a Final Fantasy supposed to feel in your opinion?
FF to me is:
1.Tactical multi-character combat control
2.Larger than life summons(If Skyrim was designed to make dragons feel epic then FF is summons)
3.Highly customizable character progression systems varying in each entry
4.All the creatures that are unique to this franchise
5.Final Fantasy specific job systems
6.A variety of sidequest in the open world with unique action sequences
7.Battle system heavily tuned towards speed and turns manipulation
8.Travel systems allowing traveling to places faster or places you weren't able to before fully controllable
9.Rites of Passage, anything that rewards you for achieving a milestone, tangible real time gameplay not just an achievement title
10.Usually but not always has some form of player synergistic mechanisms for performing combos or combining skills with other characters

I am not sure if I ticked off every box but let's see how each online one ticked a score for me.
FFXI:
1.Achieves this with companion systems
2.Check
3.Check
4.Check
5.Check
6.1/2 check, lots of open world sidequest but very little action sequences
7.Check
8.1/2 check, ability to reach new places with travel but not fully controllable, though the ability to do content while riding ship is a bonus because it gives the phantom train gameplay feel
9.Check
10.Check

FFXIV:
1.No
2.No, egis might be functional but they aren't larger than life, just look at XV summon reactions
3.Not so customizable except relic weapons
4.Check
5.Check
6.1/2 check, lots of open world sidequest but very little action sequences
7.No, other than speed altering gear, but this was done for tighter balance
8.Check, though currently that is only Heavensward
9.Check, they both have it and I like both but wish XIV borrowed a bit from it's older sister
10.No

Didn't include out of this world cutscenes or story because I think every rpg should have these and a lot do nowadays. Anyways, I want your opinion because I am interested and also want to maybe see something I overlooked. How does a FF perfectly translate to an online environment for you?





Edited, May 12th 2016 11:51am by sandpark
#72 May 12 2016 at 10:02 AM Rating: Excellent
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1.Tactical multi-character combat control
2.Larger than life summons(If Skyrim was designed to make dragons feel epic then FF is summons)
3.Highly customizable character progression systems varying in each entry
4.All the creatures that are unique to this franchise
5.Final Fantasy specific job systems
6.A variety of sidequest in the open world with unique action sequences
7.Battle system heavily tuned towards speed and turns manipulation
8.Travel systems allowing traveling to places faster or places you weren't able to before fully controllable
9.Rites of Passage, anything that rewards you for achieving a milestone, tangible real time gameplay not just an achievement title
10.Usually but not always has some form of player synergistic mechanisms for performing combos or combining skills with other characters


This is interesting!

I'm tempted to suggest something about music or art style. The FF franchise has a flare for musical nostalgia, and the art style is realistic, yet with a touch of fantasy. It's not over-the-top fantasy like some other MMOs on the market, but it's also not realistic to the point of gritty like an ES game.

I'd also say an emphasis on storyline. Yes, all MMOs have stories, but with FF there's an expectation that the story will be a central element of the game. This is evident in XIV, as a sizeable amount of storyline progression is required to even access the HW areas. Also, the story is pretty good compared to other games, and it's told with a certain flare that's common in other FF titles.
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#73 May 12 2016 at 10:05 AM Rating: Excellent
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sandpark wrote:
Theonehio wrote:
Yep, while I don't like ESO much since I don't like ES that much, it captures the ES games and put it into an online environment, kind of like how XI captured "FF" and put it online basically. That's why my main gripes with XIV falls with the "feel" of it.

Alright I am going to bite.

How is a Final Fantasy supposed to feel in your opinion?


And

Quote:
How does a FF perfectly translate to an online environment for you?


Depending on how much you look into the series, mostly comes down to the consistency of the world and the type of gameplay. For example, XI was obviously designed after FFIII and FFV using EQ as the MMO base, so that worked together.

Basically:

-World and Atmosphere: Which is why I said while I don't like ESO much, it pretty much got that nailed down like any other ES game.
-Story and how the characters actually meld into it, like if they actually feel like they're a part of the world and not just.."there"

In XI, you are "special", eventually, but for the most part you actually fit into the world. So while you may have these "special abilities", you weren't an unstoppable killing machine just because you were "chosen", you were actually helpless in the long run without support of the people the story is actually about. In XIV, being the "warrior of light" was basically their auto-win button for a lot of scenarios.

-Gameplay and "teamwork"

While in a lot of FF games you can auto win with summoning or grinding the ultimate gear being a single player game and all, you can tell the story and particular battles were designed around the concept of them working together. So while in terms of story you need x,y,z people, in terms of gameplay having each character bringing something important that isn't a hindrance without but definitely works into strategy for a fight makes it feel much more tactical in a sense as you say. Take XIV for example, while you need Tank/Healer/DPS, they designed the game largely around not really working together and you can still get through, which is why that TINY amount of content that requires actual teamwork and coordination and preparation is why I like it the most, which you found in XI by large because those of us who played it, knows just how much time and effort we took in just preparing for certain content or fights alone, not counting the actual fights themselves, and how we had to immediately switch to recovery mode when **** hits the fan.

Similar to when you're fighting any super boss or story boss in a FF game that requires you to prepare in various ways (either due to certain attacks or because they're programmed to behave a certain way based on who is/isn't present in the party etc) so just the variance of mechanics based around YOU more so than the game's internal design.

So while Single player =/= online, I wasn't and still isn't the only one who've always felt that XI kinda of felt like they tossed FFIII/V into an MMO setting even down to the story pacing. It's mostly the story and atmosphere. It wasn't award winning, but it didn't feel "there" to just be there, it all flowed together and how they explained their thought process for Rhapsodies when you look back on all the content and storylines you did, it all actually makes sense and you get the "ooooh" kind of feeling when something is revealed.

That's why despite not liking ESO, I have played many ES games, so when I played ESO I felt like I was playing just another ES game (not in a bad way) much like when I play XI I feel like I'm playing a FF game more so than when I play XIV.
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#74 May 12 2016 at 10:11 AM Rating: Decent
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Quote:
1.No


Not super achievable in an MMO because by definition you only have control over your own character. Even FFXI's trust system doesn't really give you control over your NPC companions. They just kind of do their thing.

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3.Not so customizable except relic weapons


You don't think switching classes at will gives you distinct character progression? Being able to carry abilities from one class to another? I'll admit the choices aren't as wide as previous FF titles, but you can't deny the system exists.

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7.No, other than speed altering gear, but this was done for tighter balance


I'm curious why you think FFXI has this but FFXIV doesn't. There are no turns or ATB bars in either game and XIV's combat is undeniably faster than XI's.

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8.Check, though currently that is only Heavensward


Aetherytes existed before Heavensward. Airships are unlockable fast travel as well. So are chocobo porters. All of these modes of transportation predate Heavensward and have to be unlocked prior to using them. Maybe I'm not understanding what you mean here.

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10.No


So I had to really think about this one... the first FF I can remember that had two characters act in conjunction with each other to do something neither one could do alone (if I understand what you're talking about here) is FF9 with Vivi and Steiner's sword magic. I'm not sure this gets to be a primary component of Final Fantasy if it took 9 series entries before it happened. 10 doesn't have it either. It's pretty much: "XI has skillchains but XIV doesn't and so XIV is missing a core piece of being a Final Fantasy game." Which seems like a strange thing to say. Again, unless I'm misunderstanding what you're saying here.
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svlyons wrote:
If random outcomes aren't acceptable to you, then don't play with random people.
#75 May 12 2016 at 10:16 AM Rating: Decent
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972 posts
Thayos wrote:

This is interesting!

I'm tempted to suggest something about music or art style. The FF franchise has a flare for musical nostalgia, and the art style is realistic, yet with a touch of fantasy. It's not over-the-top fantasy like some other MMOs on the market, but it's also not realistic to the point of gritty like an ES game.

I'd also say an emphasis on storyline. Yes, all MMOs have stories, but with FF there's an expectation that the story will be a central element of the game. This is evident in XIV, as a sizeable amount of storyline progression is required to even access the HW areas. Also, the story is pretty good compared to other games, and it's told with a certain flare that's common in other FF titles.

I didn't even think about music lol. I can probably remember more tunes from FF than any other franchise and I have played a ton of games. Yes indeed, music does create the ambiance or set the tone of feels I get when playing games.

I see your point with the story. I really feel XV is going to bring the offline FF back to some of it's former glory. How much depends on how well they do making the bro road trip underlying story feel organic and not contrived. The main arching story looks very interesting to say the least. That combat better be really good. It's ok to do away with the tried and true turn based, but what replaces it had better be real damn good!
#76 May 12 2016 at 10:57 AM Rating: Good
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972 posts
Archmage Callinon wrote:
[quote]
Not super achievable in an MMO because by definition you only have control over your own character. Even FFXI's trust system doesn't really give you control over your NPC companions. They just kind of do their thing.

You could control what skills they used by gear or job selection. Want your npc to do samurai skillchains with you? Equip a GK on them. It's not one to one but there is play room for controlling them. You could control one for one what a pet did beside auto attack.

Archmage Callinon wrote:

You don't think switching classes at will gives you distinct character progression? Being able to carry abilities from one class to another? I'll admit the choices aren't as wide as previous FF titles, but you can't deny the system exists.

It could have if the options were more real. It offers an illusion of choice. You can equip blood for blood, but let's be real, you have to equip it. You could argue the same for XI except that since choices were limited to one sub job and encounters were more varied, aka not jump rope. You had to pick and chose what to sub based on encounters. I didn't say it didn't exist, just not so much.

Archmage Callinon wrote:
I'm curious why you think FFXI has this but FFXIV doesn't. There are no turns or ATB bars in either game and XIV's combat is undeniably faster than XI's.

There is turn based in XI. Each weapon has a speed of auto attacks and that varied based on the weapon you equip, the job you choose, the sub job you choose, what traits you have equipped, what spell or food buffs you have on. These all provide a means to alter your turns since combat was governed by an ATB like system, it's why some two hours were so overpowering and why there was such a big cooldown. XIV is faster but less dependent on player or world induced parameters.

Archmage Callinon wrote:
Aetherytes existed before Heavensward. Airships are unlockable fast travel as well. So are chocobo porters. All of these modes of transportation predate Heavensward and have to be unlocked prior to using them. Maybe I'm not understanding what you mean here.

I am speaking about open world traversal where you control the mount or apparatus. Like the airships you get in FFs to fly all over the world, the buggy in FFVII, the ship rides in XI, you can do content during the ride. It's not just click on a node and whoosh you're there. This what old school mmo vets mean when they say mmos are online lobbies now.

Archmage Callinon wrote:

So I had to really think about this one... the first FF I can remember that had two characters act in conjunction with each other to do something neither one could do alone (if I understand what you're talking about here) is FF9 with Vivi and Steiner's sword magic. I'm not sure this gets to be a primary component of Final Fantasy if it took 9 series entries before it happened. 10 doesn't have it either. It's pretty much: "XI has skillchains but XIV doesn't and so XIV is missing a core piece of being a Final Fantasy game." Which seems like a strange thing to say. Again, unless I'm misunderstanding what you're saying here.

VII had mime, IX had Steiner and Vivi, X was done via the interchanging characters, XI had renkai, XII had the summon swap combos, XIII series had the stagger and paradigm system/swapping characters and roles in synergy, XV is having character skill combos.

Is that every FF, no it's not even most FF. But character synergy is something that I feel sets this franchise apart from other rpgs for me. Just my opinion.
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