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Come back! Need discussion...2020 PresidentialFollow

#227 Apr 21 2020 at 12:28 PM Rating: Good
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I suppose people make mistakes, gain experience, etc etc. It's hard to find a single politician that hasn't done something disagreeable at one time or another. Imo, over-all Harris has been a pretty good public servant. Also she has publicly expressed regret over the legislation, which shows that if nothing else, she can admit to mistakes - even if it is just to win over voters.

Back when I was a kid if you got caught playing hooky, they threw you in jail, not your parents (and least that was the story I was told as a young'un). Smiley: eek
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#228 Apr 21 2020 at 11:34 PM Rating: Excellent
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How exactly is Harris a progressive again?

Was anyone claiming this? She ran as a moderate Democrat.
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#229 Apr 22 2020 at 9:09 AM Rating: Good
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"The job of a progressive prosecutor is to look out for the overlooked, to speak up for those whose voices aren’t being heard, to see and address the causes of crime, not just their consequences, and to shine a light on the inequality and unfairness that lead to injustice. It is to recognize that not everyone needs punishment, that what many need, quite plainly, is help."

That's what Kamala Harris had to say about the way she saw her role as prosecutor in the book that unofficially launched her presidential campaign. Plenty of her supporters have been trying to shine up her progressive credentials, too.

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I suppose people make mistakes, gain experience, etc etc


Yeah. That's always what they say when some spoiled rich kid ruins people's lives.
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#230 Apr 22 2020 at 6:03 PM Rating: Decent
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Elinda wrote:
He won't bring the disenfranchised to the polls alone.


Who is disenfranchised and how?

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Honestly, it all depends on who you ask.

If Harris wants it, I would love for her to be the heir apparent in 2024, because I think Biden isn't going to run again. However, there's clearly no guarantee that a VP will win, and Harris is not exactly established nationally. She might be better as AG or even at State, whatever she wants, really.

Abrams is smart and driven and completely lacking in any real experience. If she'd won the Governor's race I'd be all in. As it is... I don't think she brings enough clout, and she is not ready to take the wheel.

Warren brings her own baggage, and I'd rather set her up at SEC or FTC and let her prosecute the current administration for the next four years, because f*ck 'em. And that's assuming there would be a Democrat that could win her seat.

Whitmer, again, is not well known nationally but would bring a reassuring (white) presence in the Midwest where she is known.

But my real preference, after Harris, would be Tammy Duckworth.

This
#231 Apr 24 2020 at 6:53 AM Rating: Good
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Traditionally various voting groups claim disenfranchisement. But at this moment, young people are facing multiple barrier to reaching their American dream. In my opinion, young people today are more diverse and more aware and struggle more to 'make it'. Obama brought young voters and black voters out to the polls - I think this happened because he didn't look like old white establishment. Biden on the other hand looks very much like old white establishment - he needs a contrast.

The promise to have a woman vp was, first off, short-sighted as far as I'm concerned. But it seemed like it was done to try and smooth over the claims of sexism that began plaguing him. I don't think he necessarily needs a woman, but I do think he should have someone who screams social justice.
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Yeah. That's always what they say when some spoiled rich kid ruins people's lives.
I suspect you have no idea if Harris was a spoiled rich kid or not (having money doens't equate to spoiled). Law-makers of all backgrounds have passed legislation the resulted in negative unforeseen consequences. It happens, if they can learn from it and move forward - isn't that a preferable outcome. Smiley: rolleyes

Also, one could argue who's life was actually ruined or impacted - a parent that had to spend some time in jail, or a kid that got an education once their parent(s) were out of the way?

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#232 Apr 24 2020 at 8:22 AM Rating: Good
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I suspect you have no idea if Harris was a spoiled rich kid or not (having money doens't equate to spoiled).


She didn't know poor black people tend to dislike cops - I can guess.

Law-makers of all backgrounds have passed legislation the resulted in negative unforeseen consequences. It happens, if they can learn from it and move forward - isn't that a preferable outcome.

Uh, what's the unforseen consequence here? The legislation's being used as intended, to criminalise parents of truant kids.

What's preferable is that politicians are held to account for their decisions. If they're bad enough, their careers should end. Unfortunately, there's a limitless tide of suckers desperate for the powerful to never have to answer for anything at all.

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Also, one could argue who's life was actually ruined or impacted - a parent that had to spend some time in jail, or a kid that got an education once their parent(s) were out of the way?


Yes, I'm sure having a parent in jail really turns a kid's life around. If only we had more children in foster care, the nation would drown under the weight of all the rocket scientists and surgeons produced.

And it's whose. Whose life. Maybe if you'd skipped a bit more school you'd know that.

Edited, Apr 24th 2020 9:24am by Kavekkk
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#233 Apr 24 2020 at 7:15 PM Rating: Decent
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Elinda wrote:
Traditionally various voting groups claim disenfranchisement. But at this moment, young people are facing multiple barrier to reaching their American dream. In my opinion, young people today are more diverse and more aware and struggle more to 'make it'. Obama brought young voters and black voters out to the polls - I think this happened because he didn't look like old white establishment. Biden on the other hand looks very much like old white establishment - he needs a contrast.

The promise to have a woman vp was, first off, short-sighted as far as I'm concerned. But it seemed like it was done to try and smooth over the claims of sexism that began plaguing him. I don't think he necessarily needs a woman, but I do think he should have someone who screams social justice.


I guess that I just don't understand. How was Sanders any different? Isn't he just another old white man? There is absolutely nothing preventing him from introducing legislative supporting his agenda that the young people love so much. The black vote is the only reason why Biden is even in this race. So, I'm not seeing how a VP has any affect on any disenfranchisement.
#234 Apr 30 2020 at 7:15 AM Rating: Good
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Sanders carried a very different base than Biden.
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#235 May 01 2020 at 7:09 PM Rating: Decent
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Elinda wrote:
Sanders carried a very different base than Biden.


Ok, so how are they disenfranchised when Sanders is an active Senator who can introduce all of his plans today?
#236 May 02 2020 at 9:47 AM Rating: Excellent
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Almalieque wrote:
Ok, so how are they disenfranchised when Sanders is an active Senator who can introduce all of his plans today?

I'm not sure what this is supposed to mean. Sanders can file a bajillion bills in the Senate and none will even make it to committee, much less see a real vote before the Senate, while the GOP is running that chamber. I say this as someone with little fondness for Sanders but an understanding of how the legislative process works.
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#237 May 02 2020 at 4:43 PM Rating: Good
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As someone who's really disenfranchised I find it offensive that the term is being used so loosely for people who are fully able to vote. You all need to respect my delicate sensibilities a bit more.

Anyway, Biden is a rapist, lock him up &c. Not sure why everyone is giving him the benefit of the doubt when he obviously did it.
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#238 May 02 2020 at 7:33 PM Rating: Decent
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Jophiel wrote:
Almalieque wrote:
Ok, so how are they disenfranchised when Sanders is an active Senator who can introduce all of his plans today?

I'm not sure what this is supposed to mean. Sanders can file a bajillion bills in the Senate and none will even make it to committee, much less see a real vote before the Senate, while the GOP is running that chamber. I say this as someone with little fondness for Sanders but an understanding of how the legislative process works.


That's kind of the point. If he were President, that scenario wouldn't change. With Biden as president, his VP wouldn't change that scenario either. So, I'm having a hard time understanding how Biden's VP pick does anything for the group.
#239 May 03 2020 at 4:17 PM Rating: Excellent
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Presidents have considerable power outside of Congress via controlling the administrative offices and wielding executive power. For instance, while Pelosi acts as a barrier to Trump getting laws passed, he can still do a lot of shit that doesn't involve (or actively thumbs its nose at) Congress.

Edited, May 3rd 2020 4:18pm by Jophiel
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#240 May 03 2020 at 8:16 PM Rating: Decent
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Even if that were true, that is as President. Not as VP. There's nothing that a President Biden would do with a super left VP that he wouldn't for Sen Sanders.
#241 May 04 2020 at 9:25 AM Rating: Excellent
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That's fair. I was responding more to the "If he were president..." line. Agreed that a Sanders VP would produce nothing.
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#242 May 06 2020 at 3:05 PM Rating: Good
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Elinda wrote:
Traditionally various voting groups claim disenfranchisement. But at this moment, young people are facing multiple barrier to reaching their American dream.

Struggling to see how "reaching their American dream" is in any way connected to their ability to vote. To the best of my knowledge, young eligible voters don't vote because they're apathetic, not because of poll taxes or literacy tests or whatever.

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I don't think he necessarily needs a woman, but I do think he should have someone who screams social justice.

This seems very myopic; it might have benefited him in the Democratic primary race, but it will actively hurt him in the general election.

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Law-makers of all backgrounds have passed legislation the resulted in negative unforeseen consequences.

The negative consequences in this case weren't unforeseen, they were the explicitly desired outcome: putting parents in jail for their kid's behavior.

Quote:
Also, one could argue who's life was actually ruined or impacted - a parent that had to spend some time in jail, or a kid that got an education once their parent(s) were out of the way?

Smiley: rolleyes
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#243 May 08 2020 at 9:11 AM Rating: Good
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Biden is the sexist entitled 'presumptive' nominee and Trump is the incumbent.

In my opinion, the progressive left currently has NO candidate that represents them. Presumably Biden has the moderate vote and won't get the 'right' vote. If he were to choose a VP that is progressive -I think he can bring in more democratic voters - the voters that may not bother going to the polls if there is no one to vote (I'll refrain from using the word disenfranchised). This not hard to understand, Alma, you're being contrary.

To Demea and Kavekkkkk, We make laws and we enforce them. The law sucked apparently because it turns out that parents were breaking it and then becoming criminals. Unintended consequences - sure ok, maybe not. People who break laws go to jail - a known consequence. Who knew, though, that some parents would choose jail rather than educating their kid(s). Should kids be mandated to get educated or not?
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#244 May 08 2020 at 4:18 PM Rating: Good
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Demea wrote:
Elinda wrote:
Traditionally various voting groups claim disenfranchisement. But at this moment, young people are facing multiple barrier to reaching their American dream.

Struggling to see how "reaching their American dream" is in any way connected to their ability to vote. To the best of my knowledge, young eligible voters don't vote because they're apathetic, not because of poll taxes or literacy tests or whatever.
They're apathetic precisely because the "American Dream" is essentially dead. q.v.

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#245 May 08 2020 at 5:21 PM Rating: Good
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Friar Bijou wrote:
Demea wrote:
Elinda wrote:
Traditionally various voting groups claim disenfranchisement. But at this moment, young people are facing multiple barrier to reaching their American dream.

Struggling to see how "reaching their American dream" is in any way connected to their ability to vote. To the best of my knowledge, young eligible voters don't vote because they're apathetic, not because of poll taxes or literacy tests or whatever.
They're apathetic precisely because the "American Dream" is essentially dead. q.v.


Laziness isn't an excuse. Hope isn't a plan.

If you want things to change, the least you could do is show up at your local library for an hour and try to effect change. Otherwise STFU and give me my coffee.
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#246 May 08 2020 at 5:23 PM Rating: Good
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Elinda wrote:
To Demea and Kavekkkkk, We make laws and we enforce them. The law sucked apparently because it turns out that parents were breaking it and then becoming criminals. Unintended consequences - sure ok, maybe not. People who break laws go to jail - a known consequence. Who knew, though, that some parents would choose jail rather than educating their kid(s). Should kids be mandated to get educated or not?

Who knew that some men would choose jail rather than stop fucking other guys in the ass?

Just because it's the law doesn't mean it's right.
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#247 May 08 2020 at 5:37 PM Rating: Good
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Also, per Monmouth yesterday:
Quote:
REGISTERED VOTERS May2020
Donald Trump 40%
Joe Biden 47%
Justin Amash 5%

No chance that Amash wins the general, but I expect him to exceed Gary Johnson's vote share in 2016.
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#248 May 09 2020 at 6:40 PM Rating: Excellent
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Elinda wrote:
(I'll refrain from using the word disenfranchised). This not hard to understand, Alma, you're being contrary.


That's not being contrary at all. All you had to say was that having a super liberal VP would attract more super liberal voters. That's fair. Don't say that they are somehow "disenfranchised" then complain when someone challenges that assertion. That would also imply that moderates would be "disenfranchised" if Sen. Sanders had won. Simply not being in the majority does not make you disenfranchised.
#249 May 12 2020 at 12:58 AM Rating: Good
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To Demea and Kavekkkkk, We make laws and we enforce them. The law sucked apparently because it turns out that parents were breaking it and then becoming criminals. Unintended consequences - sure ok, maybe not. People who break laws go to jail - a known consequence. Who knew, though, that some parents would choose jail rather than educating their kid(s). Should kids be mandated to get educated or not?


Anyone who breaks the speed limit should be summarily executed.

What's that? You have some objection? Look, no-one's wants to break the speed limit more than they want to be execuited, so there's no possible problem here.
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#250 May 12 2020 at 1:34 AM Rating: Good
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Kavekkk wrote:
Look, no-one's wants to break the speed limit more than they want to be execuited, so there's no possible problem here.



I was execuited once. I have a scar, but am otherwise unharmed.
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#251 May 13 2020 at 5:05 AM Rating: Good
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Almalieque wrote:
Elinda wrote:
(I'll refrain from using the word disenfranchised). This not hard to understand, Alma, you're being contrary.

Simply not being in the majority does not make you disenfranchised.

No, it doesn't. But to get the majority you have to reach the noncommittal American and get them to vote.

In 2008 voter turn out was high - presumably because 'disenfranchised' voters thought there was a candidate that would work for them. In 2016 voter turn out was low. If the dems want to win they have to get those fair weather voters back to the polls.
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