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#1 Mar 30 2010 at 3:35 AM Rating: Excellent
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A little more info from the interviews this month

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#2 Mar 30 2010 at 4:56 AM Rating: Good
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They follow up saying they hope adventurers find excitement in the challenge, and thus bring appropriate groups for quests instead of overwhelming ones.


Hooo....that one might come back to bite them.
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#3 Mar 30 2010 at 5:05 AM Rating: Good
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Er, yeah, never trust the commiunity to do ANYTHING you want them to. I'd say there should be limits to the party size/strength of certain leves, otherwise people WILL throw as many bodies at it as they can to make it easier.

Edited, Mar 30th 2010 8:05am by Raymund
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#4 Mar 30 2010 at 6:24 AM Rating: Decent
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I am very very happy to see the preemptive strike there. So many times you sneak up on an enemy not paying attention(or ignoring you due to level) and you still do regular damage. Really adds to the realism, especially when that skele or ghost sneaks in on your party in the dunes at night... hahah.

I am extremely disappointed about the healing aspect. Seeing as i plan on being a crafter from the get go it doesn't seem too limiting but i am worried that it will slow things down to an FFXI speed(a little too slow for me).

Oh well awesome update considering how small it was, i am very impressed.

Thanks for all your exellent work Mr Elmer.
#5 Mar 30 2010 at 6:28 AM Rating: Decent
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- Going it Solo Being able to solo will factor big into the world of Eorzea, and the developers reveal that they are working hard to make a game that does not impede the solo player. Naturally, since enemies can appear in parties, there will be difficult, or even insurmountable challenges out there. However, Iwao in particular finds a certain romantic image in the lone adventurer, and hopes to accomodate that playing style to the fullest.


Best part of the entire piece.....

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#6 Mar 30 2010 at 9:42 AM Rating: Decent
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They follow up saying they hope adventurers find excitement in the challenge, and thus bring appropriate groups for quests instead of overwhelming ones.


This also makes me wonder a bit. For a hard quest to go kill Mr. tough guy. most people will prolly just zerg the guy. But I guess if loot is involved. Then the smaller the group the better. I think this is what they are planning on the balance things out.
#7 Mar 30 2010 at 9:50 AM Rating: Good
It seems like SE is using the group size to help support the more casual feel to the game. If you can't dedicate the time to become adequately proficient to manage a certain encounter with the "recommended" group size you can just throw more people at it to get the job done. Seems like it would work and wouldn't require explicit penalties for doing so...the same amount of loot would drop regardless of group size, and if your character progression is based on the skills that you use rather than the xp you'd traditionally gain from killing mobs, more people means each individual player would be doing less/encounter equating to less overall progression at the character level. Savvy plan.

I'm not sure that I like the implications this might have for the community, however. It seems that the potential will exist to find yourself in groups with people who insist you need more players for a given encounter. I foresee emoploding PUGs that fall apart due to differences in opinion regarding what is required. At the same time, however, it gives players a little more freedom to include people they might have otherwise had to leave out because the group was "full".
#8 Mar 30 2010 at 9:55 AM Rating: Decent
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Yep, I agree with Eske and Raymund. People are always going to chose the path of least resistance.

What I wondering is if progression will be xp or skill point based. I can see where if it is skill point like FFXI a large group would hinder progression because points are equal to action and the less action you take the less points you get.
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#9 Mar 30 2010 at 10:39 AM Rating: Decent
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I like the pre-emptive striking! That'll be a cool thing to do.

Also, about the non-fixed party size. Perhaps a lot of the quests and harder challenges in the game are instanced. And they have each instance scale in difficulty proportional to the number of people in the instance up to a certain point. So the mobs will be tougher than usual, but the number of mobs and their loot/exp will remain the same. That gives Solo'ers a chance while allowing small groups and whole Guilds/LS's something to do that isn't a complete faceroll.

Very exciting!
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#10 Mar 30 2010 at 11:04 AM Rating: Decent
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Meraris wrote:
Quote:
- Going it Solo Being able to solo will factor big into the world of Eorzea, and the developers reveal that they are working hard to make a game that does not impede the solo player. Naturally, since enemies can appear in parties, there will be difficult, or even insurmountable challenges out there. However, Iwao in particular finds a certain romantic image in the lone adventurer, and hopes to accomodate that playing style to the fullest.


Best part of the entire piece.....

Thank you.....soooo much
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#11 Mar 30 2010 at 1:50 PM Rating: Excellent
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Believe me if zerging is an option, people will just zerg the tough stuff down and would just accept doing it a lot of times. I hope SE has a better plan then just letting people zerg because they will get less loot. Less loot wouldn't stop many people from zerging they will just accept the fact that they will have to do it multiple times, especially if you allow the right to obtain the loot be random (like on a cast lot in FFXI), people will zerg and be totally fine with having a random chance of obtaining the loot.
#12 Mar 30 2010 at 2:11 PM Rating: Excellent
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I'm liking most of this, but the idea of letting people zerg content is a bit scary. If a group has three people, then their chance of getting X drop is 33% each (assuming a 100% drop rate). Six people doing the same thing will bet at a 16% chance. However, they ought to be able to rip through it twice as fast and be able to do two runs to even out the odds. At the same time, they'll have the added bodies to just make things easier.

Its an interesting idea on SE's part, and I do hope it works. But, when you set players up with choices, nine time out of ten, they're going to take the easier path.
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#13 Mar 30 2010 at 2:16 PM Rating: Decent
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If I'm reading this right, you can switch between Passive and Active mode in combat. So that means you can change roles mid-battle (based on previous info saying you had to be in Passive to switch). That's interesting.
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#14 Mar 30 2010 at 2:20 PM Rating: Decent
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Different GLs could have a suggested number for how many people it would require to complete based on your relative character level. I imagine you could do it with less people, it would just be more challenging.

Or maybe something like a challenge rating based on your level and the level of the people in your group and a higher challenge rating +2 would mean that you would want to bring more people. (Or in the case of DoH, DoL would take you longer to do.) That way if you want to try and do something of a higher challenge rating you would get a greater reward for doing it. More Skill ups, Better/More loot etc.

But if you Zerg something then the Challenge rating would be in the negatives (-2 etc.) and would end up gaining less skills up and less and worse loot relative to your level. So it all works out. If you're a good player you can try for a challenge and get more out of it, if you're not a good player or are just looking for something more casual then you try something with a -1 challenge rating. The people who use this system to it's most effectiveness and challenge themselves will progress and learn quicker. Those that zerg or take the super easy path will progress slower and won't really learn anything, but will probably still have fun. Everybody wins!
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#15 Mar 30 2010 at 2:23 PM Rating: Decent
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They could also help to cut down the zerg thing is to have it to were it can only be dne like say once a week? I would much rather go in with as few a # as possible then just zerg something down. But like whats been said. People will always take the easy away out. Most of the time.

For leveling and such I am sure everyone will stick to the smaller #s 5-6. Zergint things down prolly wont come up till end game. But hopefully they will have a few things set in to help avoid this. If not just add in a group cap before launch.
#16 Mar 30 2010 at 3:31 PM Rating: Good
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Raymund wrote:
Er, yeah, never trust the commiunity to do ANYTHING you want them to. I'd say there should be limits to the party size/strength of certain leves, otherwise people WILL throw as many bodies at it as they can to make it easier.

Edited, Mar 30th 2010 8:05am by Raymund


Speak for yourself. I wouldn't join an overkill group, I'd gladly wait around for an appropriate group or build my own. I get that the community as a whole wants things as easy as possible, but I like a challenge.
#17 Mar 30 2010 at 3:44 PM Rating: Decent
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I stopped doing things that required more than 6-10 people in FFXI years ago. Everything I have accomplished (Limbus, Salvage, Dynamis, etc) has all been done with small groups.

I am hoping that this is the same for FFXIV, sure you CAN take a lot of people, but it will be more fun/rewarding with a normal sized group.

That being said, as long as certain events are all instanced, I am good with whatever.
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#18 Mar 30 2010 at 5:13 PM Rating: Excellent
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Yep, I agree with Eske and Raymund. People are always going to chose the path of least resistance.

Not always. That's the case when the fight is just an obstacle on the way to something else players want, like with a story mission. It happens especially when the mission involves trekking for two hours through the most hellish zones in the game. After that, you want success to be guaranteed.

When the fight involves direct rewards, and those rewards are divided up among group members, there will always be a movement towards trimming group size down to the bare minimum. Things like Dynamis, HNM fights, and BCNMs all went in that direction.

Of course, reducing the group to the fewest possible members also means reducing it to the optimal configuration of classes. So I shouldn't say people won't always choose the path of least resistance... what they won't always choose is the bulkiest, overkill-iest solution. They'll balance difficulty against reward potential.

One reason I'm excited about the guildleve system is that it eliminates the tedious travel time that came with quests and missions in FFXI. Once we're rid of that, I know that I for one will be much more willing to try crazy-*** strategies.
#19 Mar 30 2010 at 5:28 PM Rating: Excellent
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Think passive active mode will be akin to engaged/disengaged?

Could also play into the whole, "you can have your weapon out even outside battle", that was introduced some time ago.

go into active and your pick/swd/axe is out, then mine/fight/chop, go to passive to recooperate/take advantage of whatever else passive brings to the table, and repeat/use as needed.
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#20 Mar 30 2010 at 5:49 PM Rating: Decent
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My questions is can we see mobs while we are in passive mode? They already said mobs could get a preemptive strike on us when we are in passive. Right now there seems to be a lot of new quirks to this game. (Only miners can see nodes for example) The Group size for quest thing seems like we can, and most people will go for overkill just because its simpler.

Im also starting to wonder about the going it solo part. I wonder what the ratio of solo vs groups of mobs will be and if the solo person will have to sneak by tons of groups just to find a few solo mobs. It could make just getting to where you want to go a pain if your not always in a group. (Imagine running to Juno on FFXI for the first time. Now imagine groups instead of solo goblins)
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#21 Mar 30 2010 at 6:10 PM Rating: Good
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Not always. That's the case when the fight is just an obstacle on the way to something else players want, like with a story mission. It happens especially when the mission involves trekking for two hours through the most hellish zones in the game. After that, you want success to be guaranteed.

When the fight involves direct rewards, and those rewards are divided up among group members, there will always be a movement towards trimming group size down to the bare minimum. Things like Dynamis, HNM fights, and BCNMs all went in that direction.

Of course, reducing the group to the fewest possible members also means reducing it to the optimal configuration of classes. So I shouldn't say people won't always choose the path of least resistance... what they won't always choose is the bulkiest, overkill-iest solution. They'll balance difficulty against reward potential.

One reason I'm excited about the guildleve system is that it eliminates the tedious travel time that came with quests and missions in FFXI. Once we're rid of that, I know that I for one will be much more willing to try crazy-*** strategies.


When people say that the community will choose the easiest path, I dont think we (or least I don't) mean on every single thing. If the players are skilled and can function with a smaller party then yes they will choose the loot over the easiest way to kill something. What I'm most concerned about is the truly epic bosses (or hnms or w/e you want to call them). If a community as a whole, happen to lose to like the higher tier bosses in the game a couple of times, they will quickly give up trying and go straight for the zerg way. This is what I think will happen the most. People see a little bit of challenge or failure, and run straight for the zerg way instead of keeping at it and coming up with a better strategy. Instead of even thinking about a better strategy, they will much rather a zerg and random loot strategy. The easiest road may not be picked every single time for every single thing, but with a little bit failure, I guarantee you people will run to the easiest way to kill stuff if there is no restrictions blocking people from doing this.

You give people too much leeway and they will take advantage of you. I don't mean every single person will of course, but the community as a whole will.

Quote:
Im also starting to wonder about the going it solo part. I wonder what the ratio of solo vs groups of mobs will be and if the solo person will have to sneak by tons of groups just to find a few solo mobs. It could make just getting to where you want to go a pain if your not always in a group. (Imagine running to Juno on FFXI for the first time. Now imagine groups instead of solo goblins)


As much as I don't care for solo play, I think SE is smarter then this. Ranger, which has already been announced to solo well, has a move that make groups of mobs run away. I can see that as a way to solo, you pick the mob you want, bind him or whatever and make the rest run away. If all the classes have a similar move then they all could solo well. SE said they completely support solo, they wouldn't make you sneak past groups of mobs just to find solo mobs, as in that wouldn't be supporting solo play. Also I picture solo leves that will spawn solo mobs that only you can kill, which also helps solo play.

Edited, Mar 30th 2010 8:14pm by HocusP
#22 Mar 30 2010 at 6:20 PM Rating: Good
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If a community as a whole, happen to lose to like the higher tier bosses in the game a couple of times, they will quickly give up trying and go straight for the zerg way.

Yeah, probably, but there's not a lot that can be done about that. You could do the same thing with most of FFXI's HNMs, because that's just what people do, but there was a point when it became impractical. And sooner or later some brave linkshell would experiment with a new simpler method and everyone would switch. Most people are sheep, but it only takes a few creative types.

Quote:
My questions is can we see mobs while we are in passive mode? They already said mobs could get a preemptive strike on us when we are in passive.

It would be very bizarre and silly if the mobs all turned invisible when you put your weapon away. I'm sure they just mean monsters can get the drop on you if you're not paying attention.
#23 Mar 31 2010 at 3:24 AM Rating: Good
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Borkachev wrote:
One reason I'm excited about the guildleve system is that it eliminates the tedious travel time that came with quests and missions in FFXI. Once we're rid of that, I know that I for one will be much more willing to try crazy-*** strategies.
I'm shocked to hear this. Most people I did stuff with really liked exploring places they'd never been.

Personally, as a Beastmaster, there weren't many zones I hadn't seen, so there was little novelty for me, but usually when I did missions and stuff in groups, rather than sneak/invis around stuff, my friends and I kept it interesting and just smashed everything along the way.

Different strokes I guess?
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#24 Mar 31 2010 at 5:39 AM Rating: Good
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Yeah, probably, but there's not a lot that can be done about that. You could do the same thing with most of FFXI's HNMs, because that's just what people do, but there was a point when it became impractical. And sooner or later some brave linkshell would experiment with a new simpler method and everyone would switch. Most people are sheep, but it only takes a few creative types.


It is much that can be done about this. FFXI was mostly an open world game so yes there really wasn't anything you could do about this issue in FFXI but FFXIV has already been announced to have some instances, and in this case it would be easy to solve this issue by putting a cap on the amount of people able to enter. I rather them put a cap on the amount of people allowed to fight, rather than expect the community to not to use the easy way because of faster loot. Also I hope (well rather expect) that there will be an alliance limit as well, so a LS can't have 40 people hitting the same mob at the same time. If there are no restrictions nothing will separatae the skill players from the not so skilled player, at least in the getting loot part. All the not so skilled people have to do is join a zerg and random loot party and with a little bit of luck, could get loot rather easy.

My hope is for the higher tier bosses to be more odin like, and inside of an challenging instance with a cap on the amount of people allowed in.
#25 Mar 31 2010 at 8:31 AM Rating: Excellent
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Keep in mind.
We no longer have levels so no more level ups. We can form these massive parties and grind through enemies in a breeze, but we wont be really be gaining anything from it.

If it works like I think it will, our abilities/skills will increase with use. The more we use particular skills and abilities the stronger they become over time. For example, say in the early parts of the game for every 40 times I use say my backstab ability, that ability rises 1 point.

With larger parties, we breeze through enemies faster, but we attack less often so we really aren't gaining anything are we? You can go through 20 mobs and use that backstab ability maybe 30 times and since you will be splitting loot say 7 ways, that lessens your chances of getting drops aswell.

A smaller groups would be more ideal. Battles will take longer yes, but we will be able to attack and use our skills and abilities much more often. You may get to use backstab say maybe 10 times per battle. With a smaller group it also increases your chance of getting a drop since there is less of a split.

In essence, we will be cheating ourselves if we always go out in a big party. We have to find that balance.

I think this is why they allow for the larger groups. You can go out with the big parties if you like. It could be fun =) but it isn't real the ideal grouping. Not all of the time atleast. You only will be cheating yourself.

This train of thought makes this comment make sense to me.
Quote:
It is also mentioned that players who receive tons of help all the time will have a hard time growing as players. This does not appear to indicate any actual penalty, but rather the experience of the player behind the screen.


I'm not saying this is how it will be, but I do think it will be more along these lines.



Edited, Mar 31st 2010 11:47am by Faaeng
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#26 Mar 31 2010 at 11:05 AM Rating: Good
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One of the main reasons that the community in FFxi was obsessed with zerging was because of the lack of solo freindly play right from day one. Those who stuck to the good solo jobs, particularly BST were far less inclined to go out and zerg as compared to people who favoured the heavy DD jobs.
As this game is supposed to be far more solo freindly I think the community could well be far less inclined to join big zerg groups, for example we all know what happens when you are one of the last in line in a repeat zerg fest, people leave and you don't get your turn.
I think once the neccessity for zerging is removed as it seems it may well be, people will prefer to solo/low man things as it is more fun and takes less time, the actual battle may take longer but the waiting around for hours would be far less as would the chance of not getting your turn.
#27 Mar 31 2010 at 11:27 AM Rating: Good
NumptyHunter wrote:
One of the main reasons that the community in FFxi was obsessed with zerging was because of the lack of solo freindly play right from day one. Those who stuck to the good solo jobs, particularly BST were far less inclined to go out and zerg as compared to people who favoured the heavy DD jobs.
As this game is supposed to be far more solo freindly I think the community could well be far less inclined to join big zerg groups, for example we all know what happens when you are one of the last in line in a repeat zerg fest, people leave and you don't get your turn.
I think once the neccessity for zerging is removed as it seems it may well be, people will prefer to solo/low man things as it is more fun and takes less time, the actual battle may take longer but the waiting around for hours would be far less as would the chance of not getting your turn.


If the option to zerg exists and there are challenging encounters in the game, people will zerg the **** out of them. The kinds of players who, when faced with a challenge, will ask themselves (and their groups), "How can we do this better?" are rare. The kinds of players who, when faced with a challenge, will ask themselves (and their groups), "How can we make this easier?" are extremely common. If bringing more people is an option, it's typically one of the easiest things you can do to tip the scales in your favor.
#28 Mar 31 2010 at 11:41 AM Rating: Decent
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If bringing more people is an option, it's typically one of the easiest things you can do to tip the scales in your favor.

Yes in the case of a battle that you can't easily solo that is probably true of a lot of people, but nobody will be waiting around for a group to zerg with if they can just go and solo it when they are getting greater rewards for soloing both in loot and skill gains as seems will most definitly be the case.

Putting groups together is time consuming and a hassle, solo play may be the "easier" option.

Edited, Mar 31st 2010 1:43pm by NumptyHunter
#29 Mar 31 2010 at 11:55 AM Rating: Excellent
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AureliusSir the Mundane wrote:
If the option to zerg exists and there are challenging encounters in the game, people will zerg the **** out of them. The kinds of players who, when faced with a challenge, will ask themselves (and their groups), "How can we do this better?" are rare. The kinds of players who, when faced with a challenge, will ask themselves (and their groups), "How can we make this easier?" are extremely common. If bringing more people is an option, it's typically one of the easiest things you can do to tip the scales in your favor.


An Elvaan Dark Knight, Galka Warrior, and Taru Black Mage are making their way through Garlaige Citadel when they come across a gate that they can't seem to open. After scratching his head for a moment, the Galka picks up the Taru and hurls him, head first, at the door. As the Taru lies on the ground with a bruised skull, the Dark Knight looks at him and asks, "What the **** was that for?" The Galka replies "I thought when we run into a problem, we're just supposed to throw Black Mages at it?"

Granted, joke was a little more relevant pre-ToAU.

NumptyHunter wrote:
Quote:
If bringing more people is an option, it's typically one of the easiest things you can do to tip the scales in your favor.

Yes in the case of a battle that you can't easily solo that is probably true of a lot of people, but nobody will be waiting around for a group to zerg with if they can just go and solo it when they are getting greater rewards for soloing both in loot and skill gains as seems will most definitly be the case.

Putting groups together is time consuming and a hassle, solo play may be the "easier" option.

Edited, Mar 31st 2010 1:43pm by NumptyHunter


And that's what I don't like about soloing. If you can solo most of the game easily, people WILL solo most of the game. Very few people will choose to group for something they can solo, therefore the more the game allows you to solo, the less grouping there will be.
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#30 Mar 31 2010 at 11:59 AM Rating: Excellent
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And that's what I don't like about soloing. If you can solo most of the game easily, people WILL solo most of the game. Very few people will choose to group for something they can solo, therefore the more the game allows you to solo, the less grouping there will be.


This is what somewhat worries me. If people dont have to group. Then they wont. I dunno how many other times I have seen lfg for such and such only for everyone to reply with. You can just solo that >.>. Getting a group together might be a hassl sometimes but in general it makes the game much much better and stronger if grouping is a strong aspect to a game.
#31 Mar 31 2010 at 5:46 PM Rating: Good
NumptyHunter wrote:
Quote:
If bringing more people is an option, it's typically one of the easiest things you can do to tip the scales in your favor.

Yes in the case of a battle that you can't easily solo that is probably true of a lot of people, but nobody will be waiting around for a group to zerg with if they can just go and solo it when they are getting greater rewards for soloing both in loot and skill gains as seems will most definitly be the case.

Putting groups together is time consuming and a hassle, solo play may be the "easier" option.


Not talking about solo. Talking about group content where (for example) 6 people might be adequate for a fight but the community starts looking at it as requiring 9 people because doing it the "easier" way is less hassle than doing it the "better" way.

Edited, Mar 31st 2010 4:53pm by AureliusSir
#32 Mar 31 2010 at 7:24 PM Rating: Good
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AureliusSir the Mundane wrote:
NumptyHunter wrote:
Quote:
If bringing more people is an option, it's typically one of the easiest things you can do to tip the scales in your favor.

Yes in the case of a battle that you can't easily solo that is probably true of a lot of people, but nobody will be waiting around for a group to zerg with if they can just go and solo it when they are getting greater rewards for soloing both in loot and skill gains as seems will most definitly be the case.

Putting groups together is time consuming and a hassle, solo play may be the "easier" option.


Not talking about solo. Talking about group content where (for example) 6 people might be adequate for a fight but the community starts looking at it as requiring 9 people because doing it the "easier" way is less hassle than doing it the "better" way.

Edited, Mar 31st 2010 4:53pm by AureliusSir


e.g.: If you could bring a full alliance of 18 into PM 6-4, you can't tell me most people wouldn't bring 12-18 instead of 6. It's different when there's loot on the line like sky, sea, etc, but when it's a mission fight that requires naught more than a win, people will cram as many as they can into it, like Aurelius said.
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#33 Mar 31 2010 at 8:35 PM Rating: Good
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It may sound like the larger the party, the easier content will become, but the developers assure us that will not always be the case.


This should probably stop the zergfest mentality.

Not sure about everyone else, but my experience with FFXI was that smaller group activities were often more enjoyable because there was less co-ordination and drama involved, not to mention the greater sense of achievement.
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#34 Mar 31 2010 at 8:46 PM Rating: Good
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Personally, as a Beastmaster, there weren't many zones I hadn't seen, so there was little novelty for me, but usually when I did missions and stuff in groups, rather than sneak/invis around stuff, my friends and I kept it interesting and just smashed everything along the way.

I'm glad I'm not the only one. I completely understand that sneak/invis was almost necessary in some places, but I thought it was more of an "adventure" if we had to fight our way to a goal. Sometimes it was harder to find a group that way, but in the end it was more fun... Most of the time.



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This is what somewhat worries me. If people dont have to group. Then they wont. I dunno how many other times I have seen lfg for such and such only for everyone to reply with. You can just solo that >.>. Getting a group together might be a hassl sometimes but in general it makes the game much much better and stronger if grouping is a strong aspect to a game.


I heard that line far too often. I understood that it could be solo-ed. I didn't want to. That was the point of playing an MMO. I wanted to do things with a group of people. Either my friends who are playing the game, or people in game that I'd eventually get to know.
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#35 Apr 01 2010 at 8:53 AM Rating: Decent
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Not talking about solo. Talking about group content where (for example) 6 people might be adequate for a fight but the community starts looking at it as requiring 9 people because doing it the "easier" way is less hassle than doing it the "better" way.

Yeah I can agree with you on that aspect, I guess I just don't like the "easy button" aspect of zerging.

Quote:
Not sure about everyone else, but my experience with FFXI was that smaller group activities were often more enjoyable because there was less co-ordination and drama involved, not to mention the greater sense of achievement.

Exactly how I feel with regards to FFxi, wether or not it will be true in FFxiv is another matter. I think a lot of the drama in FFxi came from the massive ammount of time you had to invest in the game, most of which was waiting around to not get stuff done in my experience. Hopefully that aspect will be diminished along with the tantrums.
#36 Apr 01 2010 at 9:33 AM Rating: Good
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Wouldn't it be great if there was some sort of trigger that if there were more then 6-8 people in an encounter that wasn't intended for 6-8 the monster would enrage and kill everyone.

That would be fantastic! XD ....just saying.
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#37 Apr 02 2010 at 12:42 PM Rating: Decent
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I'm surprised more people aren't commenting on the ability to change jobs mid fight by switching from active to passing mode. That right there is almost game breaking in my opinion, so I hope they reconsider this when testing in beta. The idea of a god-like character who has maxed out the majority of their jobs being able to do everything in one fight turns me off to the game. Especially after the game has been out for 4-5 years, the roles for each party member would become generic.
#38 Apr 02 2010 at 1:28 PM Rating: Decent
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I'm surprised more people aren't commenting on the ability to change jobs mid fight by switching from active to passing mode. That right there is almost game breaking in my opinion, so I hope they reconsider this when testing in beta. The idea of a god-like character who has maxed out the majority of their jobs being able to do everything in one fight turns me off to the game. Especially after the game has been out for 4-5 years, the roles for each party member would become generic.


I have a feeling that it won't be as simple as that. You may be able to change classes in passive mode, but not in Combat.

I think passive mode just means having your weapon sheathed, which lets you regain HP.

It's also possible that you may not want to be in passive mode when you're being attacked by something, passive mode may drop all your defenses.

Not saying that I'm right 100% but I doubt they would let something that game breaking come into effect. They've learned a lot from FFXI.

P.S. Keep in mind that each job needs a different gear set. So in order to change to every single job you would need to have weapons and gear for every single job. Also, I have a small suspicion that you're limited to 1 class per Discipline. Again nothing has been said about this, but something about the way they've explained this makes me feel that it's true.

Edited, Apr 2nd 2010 3:32pm by Xebius
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#39 Apr 02 2010 at 1:34 PM Rating: Good
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Quote:
I'm surprised more people aren't commenting on the ability to change jobs mid fight by switching from active to passing mode. That right there is almost game breaking in my opinion, so I hope they reconsider this when testing in beta. The idea of a god-like character who has maxed out the majority of their jobs being able to do everything in one fight turns me off to the game. Especially after the game has been out for 4-5 years, the roles for each party member would become generic.



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It is possible to heal mid-battle, but only after switching back to Passive Mode first.


This quote doesn't necessarily conflict with what they've said previously.
It was a rather deceptive turn of phrase, though. ("Did we say 'in battle'? we meant 'using active mode'. Our bad.")

Whether or not it's game-breaking depends how it's handled.
Would you feel so inclined to do that if all your TP was wiped? What if it incurred a several second wait time as the animation cycled through and the Action Gauge had to start filling up again? Would you even really feel so pressured to do so if you could transfer abilities from one class to another?


Quote:
Keep in mind that each job needs a different gear set. So in order to change to every single job you would need to have weapons and gear for every single job.


Auuughhhhhhhh God that reminded me.
Really hoping there's some kind of practical reason to not go into passive mode just to change armor. Because it's debateable whether or not you can do equipment swapping in active mode, but if they're letting you change class in mid-battle passive mode they prettymuch have to let you change armor in that state.


Edited, Apr 2nd 2010 3:48pm by Zemzelette
#40 Apr 02 2010 at 2:14 PM Rating: Decent
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So you can be in combat in active mode and then drop out into passive mode and change class?
I think there could be more to it than that, some kind of cooldown before you can go back into active mode and start taking part in battle with the new class you have just changed to? Well makes sense to me anyhoo.
#41 Apr 05 2010 at 9:33 AM Rating: Decent
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If switching from active to passive mode is anything like what it was in FFXI, then switching between the two in FFXIV probably will be as simple as sheathing your weapon. They haven't indicated there will be any penalties imposed for doing so that I've read, and seemed to imply it was part of the battle strategy.

I'm sure most wouldn't have full sets of gear for every available job available to freely switch between them in the field, but with the combination of abilities between jobs means that someone could have 2-3 with most of the useful skills spread between them.

I'm hoping it's used more for situations where the group dynamics change and require someone to shift roles, rather than for people to freely switch between them tactically in battle as in FFXIII. If there are no penalties, such as buffs getting wiped or action delays, then I fear the latter implementation would become gamebreaking. I hope they've thought this through to its eventual conclusion 4-5 years in the future. I'm assuming they have, but with little information to go on at the moment I can't know for sure.



Edited, Apr 5th 2010 11:34am by Calispel
#42 Apr 06 2010 at 7:28 PM Rating: Good
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If switching from active to passive mode is anything like what it was in FFXI, then switching between the two in FFXIV probably will be as simple as sheathing your weapon. They haven't indicated there will be any penalties imposed for doing so that I've read, and seemed to imply it was part of the battle strategy.


Well, if a player attacking a mob in passive mode scores a pre-emptive strike, it's probably safe to say that the reverse is true. Perhaps you will take a lot more damage if you are attacked when in passive mode than you would if you were in active. And, again perhaps, like in FFXI switching modes will draw at least the attention of some mob in the group to attack you to try to keep you from resting/healing.
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#43 Apr 06 2010 at 8:11 PM Rating: Decent
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Yeah, I love the idea of the preemptive strikes too. It was always fun in FF or dragon warrior to get the first attack in battle (and alternatively sucky to get wacked first by the baddies). And great note on the solo factor. Thanks so much.
#44 Apr 06 2010 at 9:32 PM Rating: Decent
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Assuming nobody say this yet, there is also the possiblity that a pre-emp might start u off with some tp or a stun effect to the enemy for a certain duration.

btw did anyone ask abt job change during passive mode.
Quote:
It is possible to heal mid-battle, but only after switching back to Passive Mode first.







Edited, Apr 7th 2010 3:36am by Sleepymagi
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#45 Apr 06 2010 at 10:57 PM Rating: Good
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According to the devs, the only time you can change jobs is in passive mode.
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#46 Apr 08 2010 at 3:25 PM Rating: Decent
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shinichoco wrote:
Quote:
If switching from active to passive mode is anything like what it was in FFXI, then switching between the two in FFXIV probably will be as simple as sheathing your weapon. They haven't indicated there will be any penalties imposed for doing so that I've read, and seemed to imply it was part of the battle strategy.


Well, if a player attacking a mob in passive mode scores a pre-emptive strike, it's probably safe to say that the reverse is true. Perhaps you will take a lot more damage if you are attacked when in passive mode than you would if you were in active. And, again perhaps, like in FFXI switching modes will draw at least the attention of some mob in the group to attack you to try to keep you from resting/healing.


I guess it depends on how long it takes you to switch weapons. If you just click a disengage button and hit a weapon swap macro, then you could conceivably switch jobs between enemy attacks. If it takes longer though, then you may be right about pre-emptive strikes being enough to deter people from attempting a job switch mid fight, at least in solo situations.
#47 Apr 09 2010 at 2:02 PM Rating: Good
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It will be interesting how party mechanics and the Enemy AI use Passive and Active modes in actual battle situations.
Could be strategic for weakened melees go into passive mode to regen some HP while the back up tank takes hate.
Maybe the enemys too can switch between active and passive modes?
Like a mage enemy or low HP moster will break off and go into passive mode to heal, thus making enemy management and important part of strategy?

I wonder if non-boss mobs will have limited MP this time around (instead of unlimited like in FFXI).

Edited, Apr 9th 2010 1:03pm by DreamerGuy
#48 Apr 09 2010 at 2:18 PM Rating: Decent
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Every trickle of information we get makes the game seem better and better. I just can't wait!

I just love how it seems like they've just stream lined the playing experience. You could start the day with some soloing, get a little 3-4 party going for some quicker EXP and then later in the day start a party of 7 and go take on some Guildleves.
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