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Need advice: GPU Replacement for..Follow

#1 Aug 30 2010 at 12:55 PM Rating: Default
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NVIDIA GeForce 7100 / NVIDIA nForce 630i ?

I don't know jack about this sort of thing and I thought I'd ask you guys before I try to upgrade on my own and blow up my PC in the process.

Any help is appreciated :)

Edit: Budget is $200

Also, other specs: Pentium E5200 (W) 2.5 GHz (65W) / 4GB RAM

Edited, Aug 30th 2010 2:59pm by stuck
#2 Aug 30 2010 at 12:57 PM Rating: Decent
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Budget?
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#3 Aug 30 2010 at 12:57 PM Rating: Default
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$200
#4 Aug 30 2010 at 12:58 PM Rating: Decent
GTX 460 Smiley: grin
#5 Aug 30 2010 at 12:59 PM Rating: Decent
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Yup a GTX 460 1gb is a no brainer here, hoped that card would have bring down the price of the 5850 but did not happen will go for the GTX 460 myself.

#6 Aug 30 2010 at 1:03 PM Rating: Decent
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GTX 460 definitely seems to be the default answer. 768MB is right at $200, the superior 1GB version is around $230. For the same $200 you could also go 5830 on the ATI side, or slide down to a 5770 at around $170 (less performance for less money). Bang for the buck at $200 generally seems to favor the 460, though (but some people prefer one brand or the other, and a 5830 doesn't seem like much of a step down if you prefer ATI cards).
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#7 Aug 30 2010 at 1:04 PM Rating: Default
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Cool, thanks. Question tho, will this PC run the game well or will I be glitching and chopping all over the place? I'll live not playing on HIGH, I just want it to run smoothly.

Edited, Aug 30th 2010 3:05pm by stuck
#8 Aug 30 2010 at 1:20 PM Rating: Default
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so this brings to light a question. Would the 768mb 460 be better than the 1GB 5830?
they cost about the same and you said the 5830 wouldn't be "much of a step down" so does that mean that even with less ram the 460 > 5830?
#9 Aug 30 2010 at 1:23 PM Rating: Decent
stuck wrote:
Cool, thanks. Question tho, will this PC run the game well or will I be glitching and chopping all over the place? I'll live not playing on HIGH, I just want it to run smoothly.

Edited, Aug 30th 2010 3:05pm by stuck



My PC is also a Dual Core (not core2), a 6600 w/ 2 GB of RAM. The beta runs ok for me. Your video card will help, but it wont reach anywhere near it's full potential with your current setup. I'm also planning to buy the GTX460 as a first step upgrade; then the rest of my PC later.

It'll run, but it'll be choppy at times.
#10 Aug 30 2010 at 1:27 PM Rating: Decent
low res is more processor dependent than gpu dependent from what I have heard - so if you have issues in low res it is often going to be more linked to your processor than your GPU. I am sure that a decent gpu can't hurt anything though.
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#11 Aug 30 2010 at 1:38 PM Rating: Decent
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shadowofclarence wrote:
so this brings to light a question. Would the 768mb 460 be better than the 1GB 5830?
they cost about the same and you said the 5830 wouldn't be "much of a step down" so does that mean that even with less ram the 460 > 5830?

On the 768MB 460 vs 1GB 5830 it's probably going to come down more to what exactly you'll be using them on. The 768MB 460 is a cut-down version of the 1GB (lose some shaders and stuff, not just memory) and doesn't perform as well as the 1GB, but depending on what you're playing, it can still be faster than the 5830. If you plan on playing at higher resolutions with more effects turned on, chances are the 5830 will be the better bet. But if you have certain games (or types of games) you think you may play or would want to be able to handle, it'd be a good idea to check out benchmarks for those and see what sites are getting for these two cards since it is much more of a tossup.
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#12 Aug 30 2010 at 1:38 PM Rating: Decent
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What is your power supply? Always check this before buying anything else.
#13 Aug 30 2010 at 1:39 PM Rating: Decent
Woops! Ignore this. Misread.

Edited, Aug 30th 2010 12:47pm by Osarion
#14 Aug 30 2010 at 1:40 PM Rating: Decent
Osarion, Goblin in Disguise wrote:
Grand Master Scribe Olorinus wrote:
low res is more processor dependent than gpu dependent from what I have heard - so if you have issues in low res it is often going to be more linked to your processor than your GPU. I am sure that a decent gpu can't hurt anything though.


I may be wrong here Olo, but I believe it's the other way around. High Res = GPU intensive ; Low Res = CPU intensive.


that is what I said...

lol
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#15 Aug 30 2010 at 1:45 PM Rating: Default
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This is my rig.

Windows 7 home premium
q6000 Quad core 2.4ghz (Overclocked to 3.0Ghz)
P5N-E SLI Motherboard
4GB DDR2 ram
2 Nvidia 8800 GT video cards in SLI (SLI doesnt mean much for FFXIV)

My machine is a few steps up from yours and I ran the beta smoothly normal mode in 1024x768 but there was hiccups.

I could run it at 1920x1200 which is my native resolution but it got real choppy around groups of people.

I'm planning to upgrade as well.
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#16 Aug 30 2010 at 2:16 PM Rating: Default
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For anything over 1680x1050, and current GPUs 1gb+ RAM is crucial. If you have a budget system and a budget screen, then a budget card may get you what you're used to/expect. If you want something better, get something that is reccomended for better than your current setup.

the 1gb 460s will give you almost everything you want. As would the higher end ATI cards.

The biggest problem these days is review sites going dual gpu card vs single gpu card. Nvidia hands down has the best single GPU cards out there. ATI almost always has the best card for the money. What the average consumer doesn't notice is alot of the reviews showing ATIs awesomeness (don't get me wrong, for the price ATI is the shiznit) never mention they are comparing ATIs dual GPU single cards vs the ATI and Nvidia single cards.

If you're a normal joe, go ATI at this point in time, or the GTX 460. If you're going to go multi GPU you might really want to look hard at the 460 or 470 in SLI. ATI hasn't quite gotten to the sweet spot for amazing value in dual GPU configuration. On a single card, they own it, multiple cards not so much.

If you have an i5, i3, or AMD chip... focus on amazing single card (possibly mult-GPU) setup, if you have a 1366 board (and the cash) take advantage of the 460's price and performance or go for tri470/480.

Ultimately, if you're using this site for PC advice, the above will hold true. If you're using overclockers.net.com whatever, you already know better and what the optimums are. No matter who you are, reasearch is key.
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#17 Aug 30 2010 at 2:40 PM Rating: Default
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GTX 460 1GB, woohaa good to go. Thanks for the advice.
#18 Sep 02 2010 at 10:11 AM Rating: Default
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Alright so I bought a GTX 460 but it's WAY too big.. I'm using an HP s3620f. Any recommendations on a strong card that would fit into this PC?

Thanks again.
#19 Sep 02 2010 at 10:53 AM Rating: Default
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Bump
#20 Sep 02 2010 at 11:21 AM Rating: Decent
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Your best bet, if you can't fit that in, is to actually get another case for ~40 or so. The $20 cases in most cases won't fit. You'll want a case that is at least 14 inches in length, as your card is in the 10.5" class.

This one is actually on sale today @ newegg, 40 bucks and 3 for shipping
HEC 6BRBBB Black Steel ATX Mid Tower Computer Case - OEM

This one is only 20, with 10 for shipping, but you would have to install the hard drives in the upper slots (where the CD drives are) in order to make it all fit.
APEX PC-389-C Black Steel ATX Mid Tower Computer Case

While its not made by MSI or ASUS, Sparkle makes a variant of the 460 1Gig card, that is 8.25" wide. Pull out your tape measure!
Sparkle Nvidia card
#21 Sep 02 2010 at 11:24 AM Rating: Decent
Edited by bsphil
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No, because they don't exist? At least not from what I've seen. You need a bigger case, not a smaller card. You're trying to put a V8 engine into a scooter, basically. You could probably take the whole thing out and mount it onto a bigger case, but I'm not sure about that. I've seen the inside of my sister's HP desktop, and the mobo is organized in an odd way to optimize the tiny amount of space given.
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#22 Sep 02 2010 at 11:28 AM Rating: Decent
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I just bought the: GIGABYTE GV-N460OC-1GI GeForce GTX 460 (Fermi) 1GB 256-bit GDDR5 PCI Express 2.0 x16 HDCP Ready SLI Support Video Card with 2oz Copper PCB pre-overclocked at 715MHz

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16814125333

It should arrive Tuesday or Wednesday so I'll be sure to take some pictures and update y'all on how it runs ^-^

@Op, best of luck! In the mean time you may want to try turning all the settings to lowest in the Beta Config window as well as disabling all the effects in the video menu in game.
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#23 Sep 02 2010 at 11:40 AM Rating: Default
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@bsphil

Exactly. It's more the layout of the motherboard than the actual space.

DAMMIT

There has to be a small enough card out there that can run this.

Here's what the insides look like: http://www.pacificgeek.com/productimages/xl/FK785AA-POB-R-3.jpg

Edited, Sep 2nd 2010 1:42pm by stuck
#24 Sep 02 2010 at 12:02 PM Rating: Default
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#25 Sep 02 2010 at 12:03 PM Rating: Decent
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Internal specification sheet:(straight from HP)
http://h10025.www1.hp.com/ewfrf/wc/document?docname=c01527426&cc=us&dlc=en&lc=en

It says there you're running a integrated GeForce 7100 series card

The best I could see that will actually FIT in there is this
Low Profile GeForce 220 GT


#EDIT:
Is your backplate low profile (1.5 inch) or full profile (4 inch)?

Edited, Sep 2nd 2010 2:05pm by Zalacor
#26 Sep 02 2010 at 12:14 PM Rating: Default
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About 4 inches so I guess full. Just enough room for the GTX's sockets.

As for the Low Profile GeForce 220 GT, how well will that run the game do you think?

Edited, Sep 2nd 2010 2:23pm by stuck
#27 Sep 02 2010 at 12:23 PM Rating: Decent
Edited by bsphil
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Zalacor wrote:
The best I could see that will actually FIT in there is this
Low Profile GeForce 220 GT
This card is not going to run FFXIV. Or, rather, it will, but you will not be happy that you spent money on it, because that's how bad it'll be. Don't expect more than a 400-500 on the benchmark with that card.

However, I'd be concerned about your PSU as well. I'd imagine based on the size and the fact that it's a prebuilt PC, you're going to have a very low wattage off-brand PSU, which will not be sufficient to power the 460. When it boils down to it, needing a new case, new PSU, new GPU... you might as well just get a new mobo and processor (or POSSIBLY an older mobo that would support the processor you currently have, then just pop that out of the slot and move it into the new one) while you're at it and just put together a new PC entirely. The RAM you'd have to ensure would be supported as well, but that should be easy to check with something like CPU-Z. The DVD drive and hard drive you'd be able to carry over to a new PC, so you'd likely not need to rebuy those.

It's not the nicest advice to hear, but you're trying to ask an awful lot out of a PC that wasn't meant to perform remotely as high.

Edited, Sep 2nd 2010 1:29pm by bsphil
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#28 Sep 02 2010 at 12:30 PM Rating: Default
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i could actually work around the DVD drive, the biggest problem space wise was the internet jack thing connected to the motherboard. that was the main thing getting in the way.

@bsphil

Thanks for the advice. Simply put, the most I'm willing to put into upgrades is $300 so right now I'm just trying to find the best possible solution with what I have.

********** game.

Edited, Sep 2nd 2010 2:37pm by stuck
#29 Sep 02 2010 at 12:34 PM Rating: Decent
Edited by bsphil
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stuck wrote:
i could actually work around the DVD drive, the biggest problem space wise was the internet jack thing connected to the motherboard. that was the main thing getting in the way.
HP Specs wrote:
Power supply

*160W
This is not enough, not by a long shot. You need at least 600W.
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His Excellency Aethien wrote:
Almalieque wrote:
If no one debated with me, then I wouldn't post here anymore.
Take the hint guys, please take the hint.
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#30 Sep 02 2010 at 1:03 PM Rating: Default
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Ahahahaha, wow. As I said I'm willing to dish out $300 to get it running but everything you've listed seems like a ridiculous amount of work just to play a video game. These system reqs are ridiculous and they'll be losing a lot of potential players because of it.

Also keep in mind that playing on the absolute lowest settings would be fine for me.

Anyway, I'll continue researching to see if I can figure something out. Thanks for the help ya'll.

Edited, Sep 2nd 2010 3:16pm by stuck
#31 Sep 02 2010 at 1:17 PM Rating: Decent
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bsphil wrote:
Zalacor wrote:
The best I could see that will actually FIT in there is this
Low Profile GeForce 220 GT
This card is not going to run FFXIV. Or, rather, it will, but you will not be happy that you spent money on it, because that's how bad it'll be. Don't expect more than a 400-500 on the benchmark with that card.


I would expect that card to actually do better than that - the inferior Radeon HD 4350 can hit 540 benchmark score.
#32 Sep 02 2010 at 1:19 PM Rating: Default
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I would go with an ATI card. Nvidia's latest drivers are not that good.
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#33 Sep 02 2010 at 1:20 PM Rating: Default
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stuck wrote:
Ahahahaha, wow. As I said I'm willing to dish out $300 to get it running but everything you've listed seems like a ridiculous amount of work just to play a video game. These system reqs are ridiculous and they'll be losing a lot of potential players because of it.

Also keep in mind that playing on the absolute lowest settings would be fine for me.

Anyway, I'll continue researching to see if I can figure something out. Thanks for the help ya'll.

Edited, Sep 2nd 2010 3:16pm by stuck


You are correct. I was playing with someone last night and they said they had a GTX 295! one of the best cards on the market and where only getting 30fps. I really think it's a problem with the drivers but still a GTX 295 with frame rates like that?
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#34 Sep 02 2010 at 1:22 PM Rating: Decent
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A 160w psu won't run anything. I threw a sh*tty 450w psu in my lenovo with a 9800gt and it runs the game on low settings ok.

if you have trouble fitting a 460 in though, I don't know what will. 460's are small.

Edited, Sep 2nd 2010 12:22pm by GuardianFaith
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#35 Sep 02 2010 at 1:27 PM Rating: Default
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yeah, so i'm thinking my best bet would be to upgrade my PSU then find a decent video card (that can actually fit in my PC) to go with it. i think i can do that for $300. and as i said playing at the lowest, lowest possible settings would be fine.

what do you guys think?
#36 Sep 02 2010 at 1:34 PM Rating: Good
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I think you should break out the credit card and build a new one :/
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#37 Sep 02 2010 at 1:38 PM Rating: Default
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You can probably go with one of the Nvidia 8 series cards... the 8600 was one of the last "standard" normal PCI-E card that could fit into a small normal case. Nowadays, the standard card size is like 10in+. Only problem is I believe the older card models, even the 9 series, only have 512mb of vram. The gtx200 series cards would be perfect for price and power (considering low settings is cool with you), but won't fit your case.

Looking at the pic of your PC, you are totally ready to upgrade. Even an entry level PC listed in PC Gamer totals at $468, which is just a little over your budget but worth the investment considering you can upgrade it over time:

corsair 450W PSU
AMD Athlon X2 6000+ 3.0ghz (i prefer intel personally)
Asus M3A76-CM mobo
Corsair 2GB DDR2-800 RAM
Sony DDU1681S Optical Drive (just use the one in your current case)
WD 250GB 7200 RPM Hard Drive (this is fast, but just use the one in your case to save)
Onboard Sound
Geforce GT220

And if you go to newegg, you can sign up for a preffered account and make small payments over time (in case if you want to get something a little nice for more). They have DIY Combo deals, and even full rig setups.
#38 Sep 02 2010 at 1:48 PM Rating: Default
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hmmm thanks. i think i just might do that.
#39 Sep 02 2010 at 2:11 PM Rating: Decent
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I wish I could help you on the power supply part, but the fact of the matter is that its an OEM (original equipment from manufacturer) supply designed specifically to fit in that box. You're not going to be able to shoehorn/shove a power supply in there unless you have the technical know-how to actually take it apart and put it into the current power supply container that you have.

Like bsphil said, the 220 I previously mentioned will run FFXIV, not at a glorious 60fps, but it will at least render it, with your current power supply to boot.

As for your PCI 1X ethernet card, you can always remove that and go with a USB ethernet solution (roughly 30 bucks) or wireless if you have it.


Your unequivocally best option is to seriously look at what you have in removable parts
-E5200 Dual core processor (2.5ghz)
-4 Gigs of DDR2

And start drafting a plan to get a beefier model. There are a literal TON of options for a 775 socket processor using DDR2 memory if you wish to stick with that. Just roughly ballparking it...

Processor - free
RAM - free
Motherboard - 35 bucks
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16813153157
Case - 40 (See previous post)
Power Supply - 70 (Assuming you want to keep that MONSTER of a video card)

That is just a suggestion though


--------------
In reality you would be better off starting off with a decent base, there is a combo sale right now at NewEgg, I'll list all three, but I think
this one would be the most bang for your buck since you already have the graphics card, but it'll send you out of budget obviously.

Slightly older tech, but comes with ATI card
Mid-Range, but very expandable
Their 'gaming' combo, no graphics card included

#40 Sep 02 2010 at 2:26 PM Rating: Decent
Edited by bsphil
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BastokFL wrote:
bsphil wrote:
Zalacor wrote:
The best I could see that will actually FIT in there is this
Low Profile GeForce 220 GT
This card is not going to run FFXIV. Or, rather, it will, but you will not be happy that you spent money on it, because that's how bad it'll be. Don't expect more than a 400-500 on the benchmark with that card.


I would expect that card to actually do better than that - the inferior Radeon HD 4350 can hit 540 benchmark score.
Keep in mind that a 1150 on the benchmark averages under 10 fps in-game on low settings. Once you get over the initial excitement of running FFXIV after waiting for it to get released (should take 30 seconds) you'll be aggravated enough to want to quit playing once you're hitting the low end of single digit FPS.

Edited, Sep 2nd 2010 3:27pm by bsphil
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Almalieque wrote:
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#41 Sep 02 2010 at 5:05 PM Rating: Default
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@Zalacor

Awesome, thanks a lot dude. A major upgrade is definitely in order, I'll just have to weight my options and see what works best.

Edited, Sep 2nd 2010 7:06pm by stuck
#42 Sep 02 2010 at 5:10 PM Rating: Default
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You should let us know what you decide on! Getting a new PC is exciting. I've built almost all of my rigs myself, and like others here, wouldn't mind assisting you on decisions etc :)
#43 Sep 02 2010 at 8:25 PM Rating: Default
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i will most likely pick up a motherboard/psu/case and assemble it myself.

this should be fun...
#44 Sep 02 2010 at 9:12 PM Rating: Decent
Edited by bsphil
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stuck wrote:
i will most likely pick up a motherboard/psu/case and assemble it myself.

this should be fun...
It's far easier than you seem to make it out to be.
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His Excellency Aethien wrote:
Almalieque wrote:
If no one debated with me, then I wouldn't post here anymore.
Take the hint guys, please take the hint.
gbaji wrote:
I'm not getting my news from anywhere Joph.
#45 Sep 03 2010 at 1:57 AM Rating: Default
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More tedious than difficult.

Anyway, I'm thinking about returning the GTX and buying this http://www.newegg.com/Product/ComboBundleDetails.aspx?ItemList=Combo.492358

OR just buy the extras I need and build it myself. Still giving it thought.

Edited, Sep 3rd 2010 4:04am by stuck

Edited, Sep 5th 2010 3:31pm by stuck
#46 Sep 03 2010 at 3:53 PM Rating: Default
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bump
#47 Sep 05 2010 at 1:33 PM Rating: Default
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OK. I've decided to keep the 460 and buy a new Motherboard/PSU/Case

This looks good http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16817151091&nm_mc=AFC-C8Junction&cm_mmc=AFC-C8Junction-_-RSSDailyDeals-_-na-_-na&AID=10521304&PID=3342876&SID=eg3opucbf3

Any recommendations for the motherboard?

Edited, Sep 5th 2010 3:33pm by stuck
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