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#1 Jul 09 2013 at 11:45 AM Rating: Good
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Am I understanding what I just read correctly in that Jobs are only "equipped" by ... well.. equipping a 'Job Stone'?

So, you level GLD to 50, or whatever, and then you want to be a PLD, you equip "Paladin Stone", then when you take it off, you're just a regular old GLD again?

Or once equipped, you can't go back?

Then what the **** is the point of just being the class?
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#2 Jul 09 2013 at 11:49 AM Rating: Excellent
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You can equip and unequip, because you may have other stones that you want for your other class/job

In other words, you can get stonned a lot.
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#3 Jul 09 2013 at 11:50 AM Rating: Good
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Classes are ment to be for solo play. Quests. Leves, Farming monsters for items. Can also use lots of cross class abilitys.
Jobs are for party play and are focused on either DPS,Tank,Healer,Support with little to no crossclass actions.

Inorder to unlock a Job you need to lvl 2 classes. Gladiator+Cnj ( lvl 15 i think) = paladin
No your not stuck you can switch between thigns as you please.
#4 Jul 09 2013 at 12:48 PM Rating: Decent
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Have they made mention yet of what will happen to the level of a job? Does it start at 50 if your class is 50, or does it start at 30? I suppose in the immediate future this would be most relevant to Archanist, because there are 2 job branches from that class.
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#5 Jul 09 2013 at 12:51 PM Rating: Good
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I dont see the point in jobs, you only get 5 more abilities and no traits, but if you stay GLD to level 50 youll have more traits and abilities it looks like, i feel a pure GLD tank would be better then PLD, but ill see when i get that high of a level.

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#6 Jul 09 2013 at 1:06 PM Rating: Good
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The Class > Job system is most likely only there because of them holding on to mechanics from 1.0. Players wanted traditional FF jobs in the game and they obliged by making classes turn into jobs later on. The mechanic is still around because players also wanted to retain their character data from 1.0. The retention of character data has caused several developmental hurdles and is likely to cause more arbitrary issues as new jobs are released. I don't blame 1.0 players for not wanting their characters deleted when they put so much time (and in many cases money) into 1.0. We're going to have to deal with some pretty sloppy class > job combos to see some of our favorite jobs introduced later on.
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#7 Jul 09 2013 at 1:18 PM Rating: Excellent
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IMFW wrote:
I dont see the point in jobs, you only get 5 more abilities and no traits, but if you stay GLD to level 50 youll have more traits and abilities it looks like, i feel a pure GLD tank would be better then PLD, but ill see when i get that high of a level.


It has to with the quality of the abilities. Take Shield Oath for instance. Shield Oath is only available to PLDs and is probably one of the best tanking abilities in the game. If you use GLA, you won't have access to that. Similarly with WAR, Wrath is a mechanic exclusive to that job. You end up sacrificing cross class abilities for even stronger ones.
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#8 Jul 09 2013 at 1:25 PM Rating: Excellent
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Parathyroid wrote:
Have they made mention yet of what will happen to the level of a job? Does it start at 50 if your class is 50, or does it start at 30? I suppose in the immediate future this would be most relevant to Archanist, because there are 2 job branches from that class.


A job is an extension of a class. So your job is whatever level your class is; they are tied together one-to-one. If you level up while on your class, your job also levels up; if you level up while on your job, your class also levels up.
#9 Jul 09 2013 at 1:29 PM Rating: Decent
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Xoie wrote:
Parathyroid wrote:
Have they made mention yet of what will happen to the level of a job? Does it start at 50 if your class is 50, or does it start at 30? I suppose in the immediate future this would be most relevant to Archanist, because there are 2 job branches from that class.


A job is an extension of a class. So your job is whatever level your class is; they are tied together one-to-one. If you level up while on your class, your job also levels up; if you level up while on your job, your class also levels up.



So what happens if a class can turn into two different jobs? That is more what I was asking, just poorly. And someone farther up asked it as he said apparently ARC is going to lead into two different jobs? (I guess smn and sch?)

And Something similar I asked in a thread with the video...
FlixEffect wrote:
Thanks for the vid.

So it seems like if (when) they add different JOBS, they will essentially also have to add a class?

I mean, say they add Thief. If they wanted to branch Thief out from (these are just examples), say "Pugilist(30) + Archer(15)"... if your PUGILIST is already 50, wouldn't your new Thief, already be 50?
(Pug 50... Equip "Thief Stone"... become Thief 50).

Otherwise it would be "Let's add Thief and Dancer".. Thief Class, Dancer Job. Which means they would have to be [adding new guild halls etc]


Edited, Jul 9th 2013 12:30pm by FlixEffect
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#10 Jul 09 2013 at 1:48 PM Rating: Excellent
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FlixEffect wrote:
Xoie wrote:
Parathyroid wrote:
Have they made mention yet of what will happen to the level of a job? Does it start at 50 if your class is 50, or does it start at 30? I suppose in the immediate future this would be most relevant to Archanist, because there are 2 job branches from that class.


A job is an extension of a class. So your job is whatever level your class is; they are tied together one-to-one. If you level up while on your class, your job also levels up; if you level up while on your job, your class also levels up.



So what happens if a class can turn into two different jobs? That is more what I was asking, just poorly. And someone farther up asked it as he said apparently ARC is going to lead into two different jobs? (I guess smn and sch?)

And Something similar I asked in a thread with the video...
FlixEffect wrote:
Thanks for the vid.

So it seems like if (when) they add different JOBS, they will essentially also have to add a class?

I mean, say they add Thief. If they wanted to branch Thief out from (these are just examples), say "Pugilist(30) + Archer(15)"... if your PUGILIST is already 50, wouldn't your new Thief, already be 50?
(Pug 50... Equip "Thief Stone"... become Thief 50).

Otherwise it would be "Let's add Thief and Dancer".. Thief Class, Dancer Job. Which means they would have to be [adding new guild halls etc]


Edited, Jul 9th 2013 12:30pm by FlixEffect



This is the first time they are giving this option, but I'd presume it would still work the same way. You don't have to unlock your job at 30. When jobs were introduced, many people had the relevant class to 50 already, so their jobs were 50 also. If you're allowed to unlock more than one job, it only makes sense that all those jobs were the same level as the class as well even if you unlock them later.
#11 Jul 09 2013 at 1:54 PM Rating: Default
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They only call them "Jobs" for nostalgia.

This would all be less confusing if they called them "specializations", which is really what they are. A few bonus abilities.

I played my (job) character at level 50 and it seems like classes are still as useless as ever, solo or not. They should just scrap the system... ugh. It's so confusing for people.
#12 Jul 09 2013 at 2:01 PM Rating: Good
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FrozenSherbet wrote:
IMFW wrote:
I dont see the point in jobs, you only get 5 more abilities and no traits, but if you stay GLD to level 50 youll have more traits and abilities it looks like, i feel a pure GLD tank would be better then PLD, but ill see when i get that high of a level.


It has to with the quality of the abilities. Take Shield Oath for instance. Shield Oath is only available to PLDs and is probably one of the best tanking abilities in the game. If you use GLA, you won't have access to that. Similarly with WAR, Wrath is a mechanic exclusive to that job. You end up sacrificing cross class abilities for even stronger ones.


Yeah thats not bad, Sentinel gives 30% aswell, plus youll get bulwark and tempered will and more traits, like i said ill just have to see, i got some ideas for materia armor builds that should help me tank lol
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#13 Jul 09 2013 at 2:15 PM Rating: Excellent
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Killua125 wrote:
They only call them "Jobs" for nostalgia.

This would all be less confusing if they called them "specializations", which is really what they are. A few bonus abilities.

I played my (job) character at level 50 and it seems like classes are still as useless as ever, solo or not. They should just scrap the system... ugh. It's so confusing for people.



Why are classes useless? You get more abilities and traits and its not like the job abilities are super over powered.
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#14 Jul 09 2013 at 2:19 PM Rating: Good
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Killua125 wrote:
I played my (job) character at level 50 and it seems like classes are still as useless as ever, solo or not. They should just scrap the system... ugh. It's so confusing for people.

Is it really that confusing? I've read a few threads on it and have it basically figured out. Some of the aspects might seem counter intuitive (like why BLM requires leveling PUG). But I wouldn't necessarily call the system as a whole confusing.
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#15 Jul 09 2013 at 2:43 PM Rating: Good
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classes are great for small groups (4 or less) since you can cross class skills more effectively. Jobs are great for that full specialized party.

Classes are only as useless as the person deciding what to cross-class (and what they have available to do so with)
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#16 Jul 09 2013 at 2:47 PM Rating: Good
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Example: I level a GLD to 30, then a CNJ to 15. Now I would switch back to GLD and equip job stone PLD. Now I am level 30 PLD. I level this PLD to 31. I unequip job stone to become GLD lvl 31. Now I become CNJ, level 15.

Think of a level 50 PLD as a level 50 GLD with some added/subtracted skills. This is correct?
#17 Jul 09 2013 at 2:59 PM Rating: Good
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Sort of... the jobs only have 2 subclasses to choose skills from, but have their own special skills and skill boosting traits. They make your tank tankier, your healer healier etc...

Classes don't have as much of an identity as they can use a mix of skills from every other class. So your tank might not have as much HP or native enmity gain, but can heal themselves slightly better or DD a bit better than their perspective Job would. So a small party of all GLD could in theory complete things the same small party of all PLD could not. But bigger events require specific skills which is why Jobs are better suited for those events. I think the overall usefulness of both Jobs and Classes is fairly closely balanced, which is pretty impressive since in my mind it shouldn't work at all.
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#18 Jul 09 2013 at 3:03 PM Rating: Default
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is my example correct?
#19 Jul 09 2013 at 3:32 PM Rating: Good
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Except for the GLD = PLD +/- Skills part, they play similar but are far from the same... Every level 50 GLD with the same gear can be extremely different... Every 50 PLD with the same gear can only be different based on player skill
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#20 Jul 09 2013 at 3:44 PM Rating: Default
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ty for explaining it to me.
#21 Jul 09 2013 at 3:49 PM Rating: Good
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Perrin wrote:
Except for the GLD = PLD +/- Skills part, they play similar but are far from the same... Every level 50 GLD with the same gear can be extremely different... Every 50 PLD with the same gear can only be different based on player skill



Thats the main reason i wanna stay GLD, the AF gear is great but crafting is my favorit part of this game so i would rather craft all my own gear, work hard for those HQs and meld materia into it so i can really fine toon my stats and custamize it to the way i play. Im gonna have different sets of armour with the right elemental resitence for the primal fights, well see how well it helps.
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#22 Jul 09 2013 at 4:03 PM Rating: Good
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Killua125 wrote:
They only call them "Jobs" for nostalgia.

This would all be less confusing if they called them "specializations", which is really what they are. A few bonus abilities.

I played my (job) character at level 50 and it seems like classes are still as useless as ever, solo or not. They should just scrap the system... ugh. It's so confusing for people.

Coming from XI you could apply the same theory for job/subjob of them being "specializations" if you wanted to exaggerate. What you are not taking into account is how much bonus abilities will differentiate Paladin from gladiator as the level cap raises.

Seriously, we don't know how jobs or classes will develop past level 50. Gladiator could drift way more to the DD side as Paladin gets more unique skills for tanking. They didn't have the roadmap for 1-99 for FFXI jobs and how their subjobs work either until time progressed.

The game development doesn't stop at the current cap unless the game tanks and gets shutdown. This game could turn into something pretty different from the launch if it survives 5, 10, 15 years.
#23 Jul 09 2013 at 4:08 PM Rating: Excellent
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sandpark wrote:
Killua125 wrote:
They only call them "Jobs" for nostalgia.

This would all be less confusing if they called them "specializations", which is really what they are. A few bonus abilities.

I played my (job) character at level 50 and it seems like classes are still as useless as ever, solo or not. They should just scrap the system... ugh. It's so confusing for people.

Coming from XI you could apply the same theory for job/subjob of them being "specializations" if you wanted to exaggerate. What you are not taking into account is how much bonus abilities will differentiate Paladin from gladiator as the level cap raises.

Seriously, we don't know how jobs or classes will develop past level 50. Gladiator could drift way more to the DD side as Paladin gets more unique skills for tanking. They didn't have the roadmap for 1-99 for FFXI jobs and how their subjobs work either until time progressed.

The game development doesn't stop at the current cap unless the game tanks and gets shutdown. This game could turn into something pretty different from the launch if it survives 5, 10, 15 years.


Good thought. I'm thinking classes perhaps will be more 'middle of the road' in relation to their dual jobs. For instance Paladin/Dark Knight (just hypothesizing). The Gladiator class will continue to advance in a way that will validate that class turning into either job.
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#24 Jul 09 2013 at 7:03 PM Rating: Good
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IMFW wrote:
Perrin wrote:
Except for the GLD = PLD +/- Skills part, they play similar but are far from the same... Every level 50 GLD with the same gear can be extremely different... Every 50 PLD with the same gear can only be different based on player skill



Thats the main reason i wanna stay GLD, the AF gear is great but crafting is my favorit part of this game so i would rather craft all my own gear, work hard for those HQs and meld materia into it so i can really fine toon my stats and custamize it to the way i play. Im gonna have different sets of armour with the right elemental resitence for the primal fights, well see how well it helps.


You can wear stuff other than AF on Jobs... Actually endgame in 1.0 the AF was only good enough for the basic primal fights, unless you had a spectacular party you needed the majority kitted out in good +material gear on Jobs
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#25 Jul 09 2013 at 7:49 PM Rating: Good
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I guess my concern with this, is say someone levels GLD to 50... then they decide to play PLD for some run, but they don't have a clue how to do it since they spent all their leveling solely as a "GLD".

Like powerleveled players from FFXI hitting the 60's without a clue how to actually play their job as they were babysat the whole way.
Just saying it's possible. But hopefully not a norm.
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#26 Jul 09 2013 at 7:55 PM Rating: Decent
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FlixEffect wrote:
I guess my concern with this, is say someone levels GLD to 50... then they decide to play PLD for some run, but they don't have a clue how to do it since they spent all their leveling solely as a "GLD".

Like powerleveled players from FFXI hitting the 60's without a clue how to actually play their job as they were babysat the whole way.
Just saying it's possible. But hopefully not a norm.


It's just a few skills... I'm sure they would be fine.
#27 Jul 09 2013 at 8:09 PM Rating: Good
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Perrin wrote:
IMFW wrote:
Perrin wrote:
Except for the GLD = PLD +/- Skills part, they play similar but are far from the same... Every level 50 GLD with the same gear can be extremely different... Every 50 PLD with the same gear can only be different based on player skill



Thats the main reason i wanna stay GLD, the AF gear is great but crafting is my favorit part of this game so i would rather craft all my own gear, work hard for those HQs and meld materia into it so i can really fine toon my stats and custamize it to the way i play. Im gonna have different sets of armour with the right elemental resitence for the primal fights, well see how well it helps.


You can wear stuff other than AF on Jobs... Actually endgame in 1.0 the AF was only good enough for the basic primal fights, unless you had a spectacular party you needed the majority kitted out in good +material gear on Jobs



Thats good to know! I just feel Gladiator will be funner to play (for me that is) since there is more options of abilities and abilities from all the other classes you can chose from,

One question, can you use abilities from any other class as long as its the right level, could i have Blood bath and Second wind on my gladiator? or is it can only use abilities from one other class?
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#28 Jul 09 2013 at 8:26 PM Rating: Decent
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FlixEffect wrote:
I guess my concern with this, is say someone levels GLD to 50... then they decide to play PLD for some run, but they don't have a clue how to do it since they spent all their leveling solely as a "GLD".

Like powerleveled players from FFXI hitting the 60's without a clue how to actually play their job as they were babysat the whole way.
Just saying it's possible. But hopefully not a norm.



Is this for real? if i level gladiator to 50, then i unlock Paladin will it be level 50? I wish if you unlocked a job it would start at level one and have its own type of abilities and traits.
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#29 Jul 09 2013 at 8:39 PM Rating: Default
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IMFW wrote:
FlixEffect wrote:
I guess my concern with this, is say someone levels GLD to 50... then they decide to play PLD for some run, but they don't have a clue how to do it since they spent all their leveling solely as a "GLD".

Like powerleveled players from FFXI hitting the 60's without a clue how to actually play their job as they were babysat the whole way.
Just saying it's possible. But hopefully not a norm.



Is this for real? if i level gladiator to 50, then i unlock Paladin will it be level 50? I wish if you unlocked a job it would start at level one and have its own type of abilities and traits.


Yeah, most people agree with you. Maybe they will change it because if they release new jobs and you already have it capped, that would be stupid.

But for now, I tested it in beta: if you equip your job stone at level 50, you're still level 50, etc.
#30 Jul 09 2013 at 8:47 PM Rating: Good
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FlixEffect wrote:
I guess my concern with this, is say someone levels GLD to 50... then they decide to play PLD for some run, but they don't have a clue how to do it since they spent all their leveling solely as a "GLD".

Then they learn on the fly once they start playing as PLD 50. You don't need to play all 50 levels as a job to learn how to play it. You could also just as easily wind up playing with someone who is a terrible PLD even though they've played solely as PLD since lvl 30.

Bad players are bad players regardless of how much bad experience they amass. Good players aren't automatically good at a certain job right out of the gate, but they'll get there quickly enough because they care enough to do research, make sensible gear choices, and don't make stupid decisions in general.
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#31 Jul 09 2013 at 9:28 PM Rating: Good
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svlyons wrote:
FlixEffect wrote:
I guess my concern with this, is say someone levels GLD to 50... then they decide to play PLD for some run, but they don't have a clue how to do it since they spent all their leveling solely as a "GLD".

Then they learn on the fly once they start playing as PLD 50. You don't need to play all 50 levels as a job to learn how to play it. You could also just as easily wind up playing with someone who is a terrible PLD even though they've played solely as PLD since lvl 30.

Bad players are bad players regardless of how much bad experience they amass. Good players aren't automatically good at a certain job right out of the gate, but they'll get there quickly enough because they care enough to do research, make sensible gear choices, and don't make stupid decisions in general.



Im sorry but practice makes perfect, i hope they change that, for me its the fact that i dont get to level paladin 30-50 i feel ripped off from the experience of leveling that job. So far what iv seen im not too sold on the jobs ill just stay playing the classes they seemed a bit more fine tooned and customizable.
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#32 Jul 09 2013 at 9:29 PM Rating: Decent
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FlixEffect wrote:
I guess my concern with this, is say someone levels GLD to 50... then they decide to play PLD for some run, but they don't have a clue how to do it since they spent all their leveling solely as a "GLD".

Like powerleveled players from FFXI hitting the 60's without a clue how to actually play their job as they were babysat the whole way.
Just saying it's possible. But hopefully not a norm.


Like people have said before, it's only like half a dozen skills. It shouldn't take very long to learn the new skills considering you wont have to worry about some of your previous cross class ones. It would seem a little redundant to go 50 levels all over again just to learn 6 unique skills.
#33 Jul 09 2013 at 9:39 PM Rating: Decent
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IMFW wrote:
svlyons wrote:
FlixEffect wrote:
I guess my concern with this, is say someone levels GLD to 50... then they decide to play PLD for some run, but they don't have a clue how to do it since they spent all their leveling solely as a "GLD".

Then they learn on the fly once they start playing as PLD 50. You don't need to play all 50 levels as a job to learn how to play it. You could also just as easily wind up playing with someone who is a terrible PLD even though they've played solely as PLD since lvl 30.

Bad players are bad players regardless of how much bad experience they amass. Good players aren't automatically good at a certain job right out of the gate, but they'll get there quickly enough because they care enough to do research, make sensible gear choices, and don't make stupid decisions in general.



Im sorry but practice makes perfect, i hope they change that, for me its the fact that i dont get to level paladin 30-50 i feel ripped off from the experience of leveling that job. So far what iv seen im not too sold on the jobs ill just stay playing the classes they seemed a bit more fine tooned and customizable.


I would feel ripped off from that as well. I actually enjoy leveling new classes/jobs, and progressing through the levels learning new abilities. I don't want to just attach some gem and then *poof* my job is endgame ready. Do we actually know how they are handling this? I don't remember reading anything about being able to attach a job gem that you just unlocked on your lvl 50 class, and now you're lvl 50 job. I figured it would work that if you waited until lvl 50 class to unlock the job, it would still start the job off at lvl 30?
#34 Jul 10 2013 at 12:14 AM Rating: Good
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In other words, you can get stonned a lot.


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#35 Jul 10 2013 at 6:35 AM Rating: Excellent
Hatamaz wrote:
IMFW wrote:
svlyons wrote:
FlixEffect wrote:
I guess my concern with this, is say someone levels GLD to 50... then they decide to play PLD for some run, but they don't have a clue how to do it since they spent all their leveling solely as a "GLD".

Then they learn on the fly once they start playing as PLD 50. You don't need to play all 50 levels as a job to learn how to play it. You could also just as easily wind up playing with someone who is a terrible PLD even though they've played solely as PLD since lvl 30.

Bad players are bad players regardless of how much bad experience they amass. Good players aren't automatically good at a certain job right out of the gate, but they'll get there quickly enough because they care enough to do research, make sensible gear choices, and don't make stupid decisions in general.



Im sorry but practice makes perfect, i hope they change that, for me its the fact that i dont get to level paladin 30-50 i feel ripped off from the experience of leveling that job. So far what iv seen im not too sold on the jobs ill just stay playing the classes they seemed a bit more fine tooned and customizable.


I would feel ripped off from that as well. I actually enjoy leveling new classes/jobs, and progressing through the levels learning new abilities. I don't want to just attach some gem and then *poof* my job is endgame ready. Do we actually know how they are handling this? I don't remember reading anything about being able to attach a job gem that you just unlocked on your lvl 50 class, and now you're lvl 50 job. I figured it would work that if you waited until lvl 50 class to unlock the job, it would still start the job off at lvl 30?


It works like this. Get GLD (30) and CNJ (15). Do quest to unlock PLD. You can now equip PLD job gem. HOWEVER, you still need to do JOB quests every few levels to unlock the JOB specific abilities. In essence, your GLD lvl = PLD lvl. I know some people don't like how the system works, but nothing is stopping you from being that specific Job or Class at all times. Especially while soloing or having a premade group. They may change it somewhere down the line, but for now they have it balanced to where you use Classes + mix and match abilities for solo/lowman or anywhere you need a diverse toolbox. The Jobs are more specialized and are probably not mandatory for anything except the harder endgame fights. I kinda hope they change it somewhere down the line, because as of now it goes over too many people's heads. I understood it once I saw a quick diagram and it's actually pretty simple but the initial thought for most people is "wtf??"
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#36 Jul 10 2013 at 6:51 AM Rating: Good
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Seraphknight777 wrote:
Hatamaz wrote:
IMFW wrote:
svlyons wrote:
FlixEffect wrote:
I guess my concern with this, is say someone levels GLD to 50... then they decide to play PLD for some run, but they don't have a clue how to do it since they spent all their leveling solely as a "GLD".

Then they learn on the fly once they start playing as PLD 50. You don't need to play all 50 levels as a job to learn how to play it. You could also just as easily wind up playing with someone who is a terrible PLD even though they've played solely as PLD since lvl 30.

Bad players are bad players regardless of how much bad experience they amass. Good players aren't automatically good at a certain job right out of the gate, but they'll get there quickly enough because they care enough to do research, make sensible gear choices, and don't make stupid decisions in general.



Im sorry but practice makes perfect, i hope they change that, for me its the fact that i dont get to level paladin 30-50 i feel ripped off from the experience of leveling that job. So far what iv seen im not too sold on the jobs ill just stay playing the classes they seemed a bit more fine tooned and customizable.


I would feel ripped off from that as well. I actually enjoy leveling new classes/jobs, and progressing through the levels learning new abilities. I don't want to just attach some gem and then *poof* my job is endgame ready. Do we actually know how they are handling this? I don't remember reading anything about being able to attach a job gem that you just unlocked on your lvl 50 class, and now you're lvl 50 job. I figured it would work that if you waited until lvl 50 class to unlock the job, it would still start the job off at lvl 30?


It works like this. Get GLD (30) and CNJ (15). Do quest to unlock PLD. You can now equip PLD job gem. HOWEVER, you still need to do JOB quests every few levels to unlock the JOB specific abilities. In essence, your GLD lvl = PLD lvl. I know some people don't like how the system works, but nothing is stopping you from being that specific Job or Class at all times. Especially while soloing or having a premade group. They may change it somewhere down the line, but for now they have it balanced to where you use Classes + mix and match abilities for solo/lowman or anywhere you need a diverse toolbox. The Jobs are more specialized and are probably not mandatory for anything except the harder endgame fights. I kinda hope they change it somewhere down the line, because as of now it goes over too many people's heads. I understood it once I saw a quick diagram and it's actually pretty simple but the initial thought for most people is "wtf??"



I understand how it works just seems a bit weird, makes me feel im missing out on levels, and where is everyone getting this idea that jobs are for endgame and classes are for "solo and low man play", im not seeing any make or break abilities that jobs have that are so end game made, how is shoulder tackle better then howling fist? or how is jump so end game over disembowl? Im just not seeing where the endgame is on jobs, seems like every class and job will do just fine endgame.

Edited, Jul 10th 2013 8:57am by IMFW
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#37 Jul 10 2013 at 7:27 AM Rating: Good
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Does gladiator play completely different from paladin? If not then why would you feel ripped off from the experience of leveling that job?
I'm an adventurer(citizen), solo or light skirmishes I throw on my light attire(classes), when the big battles come I throw on my heavy duty gear(job) and play my single role. From my understanding you do not just attach a gem and poof it's capped. You have job quests for gear and skills you have to do.

Imagine every class/job needing to be leveled from level one to cap. This is what happens if Paladin and Gladiator, (even though they play pretty similar) get separate levels. It will create a rift between players the solo/low man versus the full party group. Because if the game is balanced right, no class should ever be the preferred choice over a job in a specific role. And no job should be able to solo or be as rounded as a class. In essence, it will split the playerbase and change the concept of leveling on how you feel to do that.

If you do not see jobs standing out from classes in terms of potency in their strengths, then they need to be balanced to be so. There isn't much to be confused about. If SE wants to make it more clear they can add that text explaining the difference between jobs and classes easily in game. As the game development progresses we will probably see the potency from jobs become more apparent in a single role.

#38 Jul 10 2013 at 7:43 AM Rating: Good
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sandpark wrote:
Does gladiator play completely different from paladin? If not then why would you feel ripped off from the experience of leveling that job?
I'm an adventurer(citizen), solo or light skirmishes I throw on my light attire(classes), when the big battles come I throw on my heavy duty gear(job) and play my single role. From my understanding you do not just attach a gem and poof it's capped. You have job quests for gear and skills you have to do.

Imagine every class/job needing to be leveled from level one to cap. This is what happens if Paladin and Gladiator, (even though they play pretty similar) get separate levels. It will create a rift between players the solo/low man versus the full party group. Because if the game is balanced right, no class should ever be the preferred choice over a job in a specific role. And no job should be able to solo or be as rounded as a class. In essence, it will split the playerbase and change the concept of leveling on how you feel to do that.

If you do not see jobs standing out from classes in terms of potency in their strengths, then they need to be balanced to be so. There isn't much to be confused about. If SE wants to make it more clear they can add that text explaining the difference between jobs and classes easily in game. As the game development progresses we will probably see the potency from jobs become more apparent in a single role.



When i say ripped off i mean i dont get to level those paladin levels i enjoy killing stuff and levelin up. Im not seeing that at all reallly, it looks like endgame can be done with any class/job, well thats what ill be doing any way, plus with Materia and crafting you will be able to make the gear you want that helps you on your goal for that roll you wish to play.
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#39 Jul 10 2013 at 7:48 AM Rating: Excellent
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sandpark wrote:
Does gladiator play completely different from paladin? If not then why would you feel ripped off from the experience of leveling that job?
I'm an adventurer(citizen), solo or light skirmishes I throw on my light attire(classes), when the big battles come I throw on my heavy duty gear(job) and play my single role. From my understanding you do not just attach a gem and poof it's capped. You have job quests for gear and skills you have to do.

Imagine every class/job needing to be leveled from level one to cap. This is what happens if Paladin and Gladiator, (even though they play pretty similar) get separate levels. It will create a rift between players the solo/low man versus the full party group. Because if the game is balanced right, no class should ever be the preferred choice over a job in a specific role. And no job should be able to solo or be as rounded as a class. In essence, it will split the playerbase and change the concept of leveling on how you feel to do that.

If you do not see jobs standing out from classes in terms of potency in their strengths, then they need to be balanced to be so. There isn't much to be confused about. If SE wants to make it more clear they can add that text explaining the difference between jobs and classes easily in game. As the game development progresses we will probably see the potency from jobs become more apparent in a single role.



That's fine having job quests for gear and skills, but once I unlock a job I don't want it to be automatically lvl 50 just because I waited until lvl 50 gladiator to do so. I would like the leveling experience from at least lvl 30 pld so that I can get a feel for how the job works before I hit 50 with it.

That might not be how it works, I don't know as I'm not a 1.0 player and since they have not allowed jobs in beta. Maybe my reading comprehension sucks, but from what I'm gathering whatever level your gladiator is your paladin is as well. I just think it should be separated a bit. I'm not asking to go from lvl 1 on up, but at the very least start me out at lvl 30 once I unlock the job no matter what level my class is.
#40 Jul 10 2013 at 8:02 AM Rating: Good
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You'll notice the difference in party play. But if you need to be told, Yoshida himself stated multiple times that the Jobs are Party play specializations where Classes are more Single/lowman elements. He's done so in so many interviews that pointing one out seems rather bothersome.

The system, on paper, seems cumbersome. The system in game is rather fluid and works well.

I don't find myself agreeing with the notion that adding specializations onto classes, on top of adding more classes, takes away from gamplay.

Semantically - the game-play has never existed in the first place. The only separation of levels that ever existed in FFXIV was Physical Levels, which were highly protested and then done away with.

Piratically - there's no evidence to imply there's any 'less' game-play being provided here. Ignoring for the moment that there's no real comparison base. We also have no idea how the system will expand. We don't know how many classes we'll end up with by year 2 or 4 or 10. We don't know how many Jobs will branch from those classes.

There's a lot of fear mongering and sour grapes being passed along here.
#41 Jul 10 2013 at 8:05 AM Rating: Default
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Jobs are still better for solo though.
#42 Jul 10 2013 at 8:14 AM Rating: Excellent
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Hatamaz wrote:


That's fine having job quests for gear and skills, but once I unlock a job I don't want it to be automatically lvl 50 just because I waited until lvl 50 gladiator to do so. I would like the leveling experience from at least lvl 30 pld so that I can get a feel for how the job works before I hit 50 with it.

That might not be how it works, I don't know as I'm not a 1.0 player and since they have not allowed jobs in beta. Maybe my reading comprehension sucks, but from what I'm gathering whatever level your gladiator is your paladin is as well. I just think it should be separated a bit. I'm not asking to go from lvl 1 on up, but at the very least start me out at lvl 30 once I unlock the job no matter what level my class is.



The hang-up seems that you're treating Gladiator and Paladin as Separate Entities. They're not. It's the same issue when people say they don't want MRD or WAR to be a tank.

Classes, are primarily a neutral role. Depending on how you gear, both equipment and ability wise, they're very variable. Jobs are specializations, extensions of the class. Think of them less like separate entities and treat the Jobs like separate Skill Paths of the Class's skill tree. You're not leveling a new class so much as specking into a specific branch.

Killua125 wrote:
Jobs are still better for solo though.



Depends ENTIRELY on what you have available for secondary abilities.

My Lancer is far more durable than my Dragoon right now.

And it's flatly not true for THM, who can't even access cure as a Black Mage.

Edited, Jul 10th 2013 10:16am by Hyrist
#43 Jul 10 2013 at 8:29 AM Rating: Excellent
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I think one of the problems you saw in a game like FFXI with its job system was that each job was either highly specialized or highly generalized and most weren't useful for all occasions. A few jobs that beat this trend and were generalized except for one stand-out special ability you couldn't live without, such as Red Mage or Ninja, were considered overpowered.

You couldn't really solo well as a White Mage. It's specialized in healing and was only called for in intense situations such as endgame fights. But you could solo as a Red Mage since it was generalized and could fight decently, even if the job could also heal fairly well.

So the system in FFXIV, where you level the Conjurer class and unlock the White Mage job, is sort of like leveling Red Mage in FFXI and getting White Mage for free. In situations where you need to be a healing specialist, you can wear the White Mage hat and heal exceptionally well. But for all other occasions, you can wear the Red Mage (Conjurer) hat and not be sidelined as a White Mage who can't do much except extreme healing.
#44 Jul 10 2013 at 8:33 AM Rating: Good
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I shutter at the mention of Red Mage as a healer... I really did hate that ultization of the Job in FFXI.

But your assessment isn't far off. Except that a White Mage could solo and melee. My ex Fiancee can attest to that. It's just difficult.
#45 Jul 10 2013 at 9:07 AM Rating: Default
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Hyrist wrote:
You'll notice the difference in party play. But if you need to be told, Yoshida himself stated multiple times that the Jobs are Party play specializations where Classes are more Single/lowman elements. He's done so in so many interviews that pointing one out seems rather bothersome.

The system, on paper, seems cumbersome. The system in game is rather fluid and works well.

I don't find myself agreeing with the notion that adding specializations onto classes, on top of adding more classes, takes away from gamplay.

Semantically - the game-play has never existed in the first place. The only separation of levels that ever existed in FFXIV was Physical Levels, which were highly protested and then done away with.

Piratically - there's no evidence to imply there's any 'less' game-play being provided here. Ignoring for the moment that there's no real comparison base. We also have no idea how the system will expand. We don't know how many classes we'll end up with by year 2 or 4 or 10. We don't know how many Jobs will branch from those classes.

There's a lot of fear mongering and sour grapes being passed along here.



Can i get an example, everyone keeps telling me that jobs are better party play, how?? Do you guys look at all the abilities you can get? How is Jump better for end game parties then blood for blood? Dragoonfire dive is a 10 min recast for 250 dmg, Chaos thrust is 2.5 recast for 100 dmg , so longer cooldowns = better end game lol?? Im not seeing it at all, so please let me get some examples on how jobs have the upper hand in party play?

My stance is every class or job will be fine at any role you wish to play, at any point in the game, it just boils down to how you wanna play.
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#46 Jul 10 2013 at 10:08 AM Rating: Good
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IMFW wrote:
Im sorry but practice makes perfect

If you practice leveling from 30 to 50, you might get better at leveling, but that doesn't necessarily make you better at end game activities. Practicing to play Chopsticks on the piano doesn't make you better at playing Moonlight Sonata.

Improvement over the course of time isn't linear either. Your play doesn't improve to the exact same degree going from lvl 30 to 31 as it does going from 31 to 32, or 32 to 33, etc. Most of your learning and improvement will likely come early on when you first start using a new skill. The rest is just reinforcement.

This all assumes that you are indeed getting better with practice. It's also possible for a player to simply reinforce bad habits through repetition as they level.

If you enjoy leveling, and wish you could level both PLD and GLD separately, that's one thing (and you can accomplish that by leveling an alternate character). But I think people make too big of a deal over players not getting enough practice with a particular job because they didn't actively play that job for every single point of exp.
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#47 Jul 10 2013 at 10:30 AM Rating: Decent
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IMFW wrote:


Can i get an example, everyone keeps telling me that jobs are better party play, how?? Do you guys look at all the abilities you can get? How is Jump better for end game parties then blood for blood? Dragoonfire dive is a 10 min recast for 250 dmg, Chaos thrust is 2.5 recast for 100 dmg , so longer cooldowns = better end game lol?? Im not seeing it at all, so please let me get some examples on how jobs have the upper hand in party play?

My stance is every class or job will be fine at any role you wish to play, at any point in the game, it just boils down to how you wanna play.


Well, we haven't seen every Job ability just yet, but either way the job retains all its class abilities but gets more

Edited, Jul 10th 2013 12:31pm by boredenough
#48 Jul 10 2013 at 10:35 AM Rating: Decent
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svlyons wrote:
IMFW wrote:
Im sorry but practice makes perfect

If you practice leveling from 30 to 50, you might get better at leveling, but that doesn't necessarily make you better at end game activities. Practicing to play Chopsticks on the piano doesn't make you better at playing Moonlight Sonata.

Improvement over the course of time isn't linear either. Your play doesn't improve to the exact same degree going from lvl 30 to 31 as it does going from 31 to 32, or 32 to 33, etc. Most of your learning and improvement will likely come early on when you first start using a new skill. The rest is just reinforcement.

This all assumes that you are indeed getting better with practice. It's also possible for a player to simply reinforce bad habits through repetition as they level.

If you enjoy leveling, and wish you could level both PLD and GLD separately, that's one thing (and you can accomplish that by leveling an alternate character). But I think people make too big of a deal over players not getting enough practice with a particular job because they didn't actively play that job for every single point of exp.


Ill stick to my guns that pratice will make you better, jobs you get an abilitie every five levels, 30,35,40,45,50, so you get 5 levels to really learn and fine toon those abilities, sure you can read how the abilitie works, but it takes practice to really see how and when it should be used.
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#49 Jul 10 2013 at 10:39 AM Rating: Decent
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My understandimg is that jobs augment the role your class plays in a group. THM is primarily magic damage dealing. But it's a class so you can give yourself healimg and support abilities you learned as a CNJ. Remember the role of THM is primarily magic damage though. When you equip the Black Mage stone it cuts off skills you learned as a CNJ but gives you a bigger spell list of....magic damage spells... So now your ability to deal magic damage has been focused and you lost the ability to heal and support in favor of increased ability to deal magic damage. That is how it augments the class.

Now, GLA is a tanking class. You equip the Paladin stone and you gain abilities that will help you tank. As CNJ you equip the White Mage job stone and you gain abilities that help you heal. You see where this is going.

I want to say jobs have better stats than classes for the kind of role they are made to play. Then there's job specific gear too. Remember there are powerful abilities only available as a job.

If you're after raw data numbers from comparisons between an ability from a class and a comparable ability from a job, I can't help you there as I dont run a parser or understand the meta-data on the battle system well enough. Feel free to do this yourself though, you seem like you really want to know and it would be of interest to the community.
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#50 Jul 10 2013 at 10:39 AM Rating: Excellent
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IMFW wrote:
Ill stick to my guns that pratice will make you better,
Practice makes consistent. Perfect practice makes perfect.
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#51 Jul 10 2013 at 10:40 AM Rating: Good
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boredenough wrote:
IMFW wrote:


Can i get an example, everyone keeps telling me that jobs are better party play, how?? Do you guys look at all the abilities you can get? How is Jump better for end game parties then blood for blood? Dragoonfire dive is a 10 min recast for 250 dmg, Chaos thrust is 2.5 recast for 100 dmg , so longer cooldowns = better end game lol?? Im not seeing it at all, so please let me get some examples on how jobs have the upper hand in party play?

My stance is every class or job will be fine at any role you wish to play, at any point in the game, it just boils down to how you wanna play.


Well, we haven't seen every Job ability just yet, but either way the job retains all its class abilities but gets more

Edited, Jul 10th 2013 12:31pm by boredenough



Iv never heard that, so the jobs get there abilities and all the abilities of there class? So paladin still gets all the gladiator abilties that are above level 30?
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